The Jobs Apocalypse - what will YOU do with all that time?

My kids laugh at me when I talk about this or that apocalypse. But I think there is one apocalypse that is very real, is happening right now, is rewriting human history, and is only set to accelerate exponentially over the next fifty years: jobs are going away. In the not to distant future, most of the jobs out there will be obsolete or will be fully automated. The technologies that can replace human labor are proliferating. And once you can replace a human worker with a machine worker, it makes no sense to keep the human on the payroll. As each year passes, an increasing number of us humans are no longer required for production or services.

There are a lot of "lipstick on a pig" articles out there saying we will still be just fine with all the jobs that will still require "human interaction. " But how many of us can be waiters and greeters? Sorry, that's just not the answer for most of us.

What will you do with all that time on your hands?

a reply to: olddognewtricks

Make the machines that in turn take away other peoples jobs. Insert myself into a position that wont likely be taken by automation. But in all honesty, For me personally nothing would change. I haven't worked a day in my life. Log into a couple websites once a week, Update, Collect revenues. Spend most of my days sleeping and thinking of grandiose new ways to make money with as little effort as possible.

There will always be jobs for those that want them. Entrepreneurship is the new 'job'. I WISH I had people to do all the various things I need done around the house.

Contractors, nurses, doctors, engineers and more will always be around. I read a study that said 60% of the jobs that new college graduates will be doing don't exist yet.

I think it is exciting!

originally posted by: Metallicus
There will always be jobs for those that want them. Entrepreneurship is the new 'job'. I WISH I had people to do all the various things I need done around the house.

Contractors, nurses, doctors, engineers and more will always be around. I read a study that said 60% of the jobs that new college graduates will be doing don't exist yet.

I think it is exciting!

Paying a human to clean behind my toilet is more satisfying then buying a robot to do it. Just sayin'.

a reply to: Metallicus

Good news if true.

a reply to: olddognewtricks

Innovate.

Jobs aren't going away. We are shifting paradigms.

"Jobs" didn't exist before humans. Humans created the notion of "jobs". And we will continue doing so as we move out of mundane work.

Each new invetion (wheel, domesticated food/animals, steam power, etc) creates an opportunity to innovate.

Well, as long as I can get money from our government, I'll enjoy not working. I'm sick of it after 30 years anyway, and I supposedly have 25 more to go before I can retire.

So, I will float in the pool for a while. Then work in the garden. Do some canning. Take care of the chickens. Read. Hunt. Chase hubby around.
Yeah, no problem for me, filling up the day not working.

originally posted by: chiefsmom
Well, as long as I can get money from our government, I'll enjoy not working. I'm sick of it after 30 years anyway, and I supposedly have 25 more to go before I can retire.

So, I will float in the pool for a while. Then work in the garden. Do some canning. Take care of the chickens. Read. Hunt. Chase hubby around.
Yeah, no problem for me, filling up the day not working.

Nice work if you can get it.

If the paradigm shift to growing our own food (Victory gardens) takes hold, then people can find markets where to sell their goods, either as a cottage industry, expand with partners into a larger business, or to supplement an already existing income (most likely low paying - service industry), as well as providing busy richer people with personal services (delivery of fresh home grown veggies) as mentioned above.

I've talked about ALL this before on ATS, I'll recap AGAIN:

The "Owners of Capital" want wage slaves DEAD before turning 60. Best case scenario for them, is for someone to work 60+ hour work weeks from ages 16-60, put all of their money into a 401K, cars & home mortgage, neglecting to go to the doctor for decades and then suddenly drop dead of a heart attack; all before they can drain their 401K's and start using earned social security & medicare benefits.

Due to the way our current economic system works, we CLEARLY have too many people being born and not enough desire on the behalf of the "owners of capital" to employ them for the sake of having a stable and safe civilization. In the United States, for example, its clear that the "owners of capital" have chosen NOT to employ people on a large scale, preferring "tent cities" and "jailing the homeless", INSTEAD of providing more "make-work employment" arrangements.

Up to the 1940 a person could get just about any job with an 8th grade education, but today you need a BA or Masters for entry level. Why?

Because the government & big business figured out a long time ago that populations would certainly increase over time, but due to technology advancements, the availability of jobs would not expand to meet that population growth. There is a DEFINITE reason they don’t want people dropping out of high school and then at the same time, encourage those same high school graduates to attend junior college, then a 4 year university and finally a Masters degree or PhD. Government strong-arms this concept because it DECREASES the amount of people looking for full-time employment at the SAME TIME, chasing after jobs in a market that CANNOT provide employment for everyone whom is looking, able to perform, qualified for and willing to work.

Look at it this way, when people could get a job with an 8th grade education, they went out and did it as soon as possible (opportunity cost). Then jobs got scarcer and the minimum requirement became a high school diploma, adding 4 more years of people NOT Looking for jobs within their cohort. Then jobs got even scarcer and the minimum became a 2 or 4 year college degree, adding an additional 2-4 years of people NOT looking for jobs within their cohort. Now jobs are really scarce and may require a Masters or PHD, adding an additional 2-7 years of people NOT looking for jobs within their cohort. Basically due to the way the economy has been structured TODAY, we are looking at young people within their cohort whom are NOT looking for full-time, career type, employment for 4-15 YEARS, beyond K-12, all while they finish more school!

This has been done ON PURPOSE, to keep the number people seeking employment lower. In 1920 after 8th grade everyone who was able, went out to look for work and typically found it. That’s simply NOT possible today under any circumstances. Easily accessed welfare will soon add another 1-3 years of people within a cohort, to those “not seeking employment”. Note this will NOT be to the specific detriment of society, but as a means to continue to mask the illusion that jobs and upward mobility are still available. So, if someone gets a graduate degree and collects 1-3 years of welfare on top of than, that’s ONE less person competing for scarce jobs. The extra years of welfare are then acting in the same way to the larger economy, as the previously increased minimum education levels for employment. The real goal is decreasing the number of able-bodied applicants out on the job market at the same time, but also not decreasing the supply of "potential workers" who's mere existence drive wages down for EVERYBODY. Keep in mind this cohort of people "not pursuing full-time employment" also includes those in Prison, Government pensioners/SSI and the disabled on government assistance. The reality is if everyone needed to go out and “get a job” or “start their own business” TODAY, as many “capitalists” and "entrepreneurs" suggest these days, we would ALL be making 0.25 cents a day. THIS RACE TO THE BOTTOM EFFECTS THE SELF EMPLOYED WAGES AS WELL.

The “owners of capital” have already decided, FOR US REGULAR PEOPLE, that there are going to be LESS jobs available in the NEAR future, due to increased automation and modern corporate labor, cost-cutting, strategies. These measures eventually will affect and include ALL contract work, ALL self-employment opportunities and ALL small businesses, NOT JUST payroll laborers. Its easier to “pay less” or “nothing at all” to contracted or indentured “labor” when there is another willing laborer/slave, waiting in the wings, to do the work for less or nothing at all. In the past when there wasn’t enough money to go around to pay both wages & PROFITS, the “owners of capital” simply brought in more indentured servant immigrants (Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc) or flat out used slave labor (Blacks, Native Americans, domestic prisoners, POW’s, etc). The only difference between now and then is the “owners of capital” can’t LEGALLY have slaves or indentured servants. The mechanisms today that replaces slaves and indentured servants are the following: longer than needed formal education for basic employment, off-shoring of labor, forced retirement, prisoners and welfare

The largest “recorded” wage increase to happen in history, for non-land owing, wage-laborers, post the introduction of fiat currency, was after the black death pandemic, in the 14th century, especially in post-pandemic England

But, how was that possible?

Because “the owners of capital”, post the black-death-pandemic, still needed wage-laborers, but there was a HUGE shortage of able bodied people. So, in order for ANY work to get done, they had to pay the peasants and other undesirables, more money, SIGNIFICANTLY MORE. This principle is still at work today, when you take the time to recognize that sizable portions of the population are actively discouraged from participating in the full-time labor market. This is easily done, by throwing people in prison, forcing them to attend formal school longer and allowing more people to claim themselves as disabled or collect long/short term welfare

After the Black Death ran its course, in the 14th century, a Peasants Revolt was triggered by the "Statute of Labourers 1351". By 1381, the sustained wage growth for non-land owing, wage-laborers was rising so quickly that the English parliament, a few decades post the Black-Death, under King Edward III, introduced the "Statute of Labourers 1351". This statute was used by the "Owners of Capital", as an artificial means to drive down the wages of non-land owning peasants. Despite market conditions signalling the need for increased wages

The Statute of Laborers; 1351 ("Statutes of the Realm," vol. i. p. 307.)

Think about that for a minute, the MARKET signaled that wages should have been higher, due to actual labor shortages caused by the Black Death, but the “owners of capital” still didn't want to pay it, so they wrote a law saying why they didn't have to conform to demands of the market. That's where we are today, a form of Neo-feudalism, driven by Fascist ideology and practices. Remember the USA a former "slave owning nation", that fought "tooth & nail" to maintain the legal right to own slaves; even turning indentured servants, whom by contract, were set to be released in 7 years, into indefinite slaves through legal loopholes

a reply to: boohoo

Do you know any of these "owners of capital"? Or is this guesswork?

While I am definitely not wealthy, and of fairly modest means, I do happen to know some of the "owners of capital" people (billionaires, not millionaires).

While they absolutely do see the world differently due to their position in life, there is nothing that has ever led me to believe that they aren't just people. You don't get to amass a billion dollars by being an easy person to negotiate with. So you absolutely wouldn't expect them to say, "Oh, well...i have all of this, and you have nothing. Here, let me give you some of it". That's just against human nature.

Billionaires aren't out to eat your children. They are out to keep amassing wealth. Its what they do. Just like you expect Jay Leno to collect more cars....billionaires will keep collecting wealth.

originally posted by: Metallicus
There will always be jobs for those that want them. Entrepreneurship is the new 'job'. I WISH I had people to do all the various things I need done around the house.

Contractors, nurses, doctors, engineers and more will always be around. I read a study that said 60% of the jobs that new college graduates will be doing don't exist yet.

I think it is exciting!

I'm sure you do...

Keeping up with the basics, in terms of education and on-the-job work skills won’t be enough for jobs requiring hands-on, "future tech" experience, for the neo-skilled labor market. The poor and even the middle class (not the upper middle class) will simply NOT be able to keep up with the skill demands for future employment which will include paid upkeep on REQUIRED CERTIFICATIONS, STATE LICENSING, etc, while earning wages AND keeping a roof over their heads. In the future these very high costs, skills sets, that will be needed to stay “relevant” in ALL labor markets, will only be affordable to the rich, or possibly to some VERY far forward thinking middle class families, willing to sacrifice everything financially, while pooling resources, to keep their offspring competitive in the larger job market.

I will begin with the usual assertion I hear in regards to the impact of these, soon to be real, “future-tech jobs", which contrary to beliefs of some, includes the lower end trades and the accompanying "proprietary tech" that will not be repairable, only "replaceable" by a CORPORATE VETTED/owned certified/licensed tech.

“Someone has to get paid to fix the robots!”

I often hear this above noted rebuttal to mass automation and the current labor cutting measure in the modern workplace, BUT it misses a subtle point that ONLY the children of the wealthy will have the opportunity to become TRUE experts in such fields. Let me clarify, through the prior 20th century, a poor kid who studied hard could become a lawyer, accountant, even a doctor sometimes with the right combination of hard work, savings, scholarships, family support, etc., or, these people simply went into the trades and learned on the job WITH pay. HOWEVER, in contemporary engineering and technician curriculum’s today, times are changing and the current system favors kids whom have access to expensive software/hardware to “experiment with" and “practice on" before entering college or a particular training program. So, when these youngsters finally get to college or start their apprenticeships, those whom have had lots of "free time" to “play” with robotics and programming, outside of class, WILL CERTAINLY outpace their less privileged peer, whom flipped burgers part-time to pay for rent and school expenses.

Before 1990, 40% of teenagers had part-time jobs while in school. This is a relevant statistic because today only 20% of teenagers in school have part-time jobs. The reality is that teens, at one time, did in fact, make up a sizable portion of the workforce.

Although not my primary point, I do think there is plenty of evidence that teens today do not have the opportunity to get part-time jobs, BUT the wealthy ones are beginning to develop advanced skill-sets that COULD be MORE helpful in their future adult careers, than say, “working at a taco stand after school”. Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg are very good EARLY examples of people who made use of their free time and access to money to develop specialized skills that could not be learned at a MINDLESS part-time job or even in formal schooling, all WITHOUT the BURDEN of having to sell their labor for pay as teenagers. In the end they leveraged that free time learning into long term careers

Here is a modern example of a company with a big contract to fill and absolutely no "will" to increase wages to attract experience personnel, nor the desire to train inexperienced ones on the job, while paid. Instead they put out a story on the web bellyaching:

bridgemi.com...

In the link below this paragraph I have posted an example of what I believe to be a young person, from a well off family, who majored in robotics at USC. She doesn’t appear to have had any unrelated part-time jobs in relation to her major, while in college. She also seem to have had lots time to “experiment and PLAY” with technology in her spare time. She earned a masters degree back-to-back to the bachelors AND at the end of college, got a job offer at a University sponsored dinner party for robotics majors. NOBODY I went to college with, EVER, got a job offer at a university sponsored dinner party. In contrast, I’m sure many Ivy league and top 10 school graduates do get job offers at university sponsored dinner parties. My point being, these future “robot repair jobs” are going to require smart kids, with desire to advance, whom also went to good schools, BUT had lots of spare time and money to play with the tech outside of school AND got their jobs offered at dinner parties, some of which will be non-paying internships at first. These job offers will not be gained through sending out blind jobs applications through linkedin or company job boards, as has been done up until now. Basically what this girl is doing for Disney will, in the near future, be more like what a plumber or electrician does today, EXCEPT you won’t get trained on the job, in a low-pay apprenticeship when at “entry level”. In fact to even be considered for these “future-tech jobs” in the first place you’ll need to have good academic pedigree, lots of unpaid hobby experience and 1+ years of unpaid internships. Can kids outside of the upper middle class do the same things as this young woman? I think not!

Here is her story, readers can decide for themselves, my opinion is that this is what low-end trade careers are going to look like in 15+ years:

onedublin.org...

Those whom are going to be rendered jobless by automation/robotics/tech are going to be the least likely to be able to pick up these pieces in the coming era of traditional jobs destruction. Its going to IMPOSSIBLE for the poor to go back to school, get a masters degree in robotics, in full-time only engineering programs. Contrary to belief these programs strongly discourage their admitted students from taking part-time jobs, while favoring students who have the money, the free time AND whom have NEVER work at an unrelated job to their majors (also buying expensive robotics hardware/software to experiment with outside of class).

Mark my words this future labor market in the pursuit of “maintaining robots or other tech” is going to be the sole domain of rich kids with advanced degrees from good schools because NO ONE is going to train anyone else perceived as lesser, in that kind of job, WITH PAY.

To continue my above point, I believe “rich kid” job mobility is going to be a bigger problem for regular folks, beyond what the previous "rich kid" pedigrees typically brought in the 20th century. This unfettered access to endless money and time to “explore” academics and hands-on work, with no consequences, is going to END job mobility of any kind for the lower and middle classes, even for those whom have met the typical required higher education and work experience standards. Its a superstar only job market now with no room for middle of road folks

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: boohoo

Do you know any of these "owners of capital"? Or is this guesswork?

While I am definitely not wealthy, and of fairly modest means, I do happen to know some of the "owners of capital" people (billionaires, not millionaires).

While they absolutely do see the world differently due to their position in life, there is nothing that has ever led me to believe that they aren't just people. You don't get to amass a billion dollars by being an easy person to negotiate with. So you absolutely wouldn't expect them to say, "Oh, well...i have all of this, and you have nothing. Here, let me give you some of it". That's just against human nature.

Billionaires aren't out to eat your children. They are out to keep amassing wealth. Its what they do. Just like you expect Jay Leno to collect more cars....billionaires will keep collecting wealth.

Actually I do, I attended high school and college with their children. My academic pedigree "allows me" to meet the qualifications that the "owners of capital" desire and REQUIRE for upward moving, management types, that were not necessarily "born into" the "Owners of Capital" class.

Note, your comment does not contradict ANYTHING that I have written. Did I mention "malice" or "greed" anywhere in my comments?

I did not!

But, the reality is, if people, on a mass scale, are dying because they can't afford to go to the doctor for treatable conditions, due to corrupt economic practices, ethically, it IS the same thing as "eating children".

But, to recap, the reality that I pointed out, still stands. Those in the "billionaire club" do not have enough desire to CURRENTLY employ the lower classes for the sake of having a stable and safe civilization. It is clear that the "Owners of Capital" have chosen NOT to employ people on a large scale, preferring "tent cities" and "jailing the homeless", as opposed to, providing more "make-work employment" arrangements for the lower classes that are unable to AFFORD the training needed for better paying skilled labor positions.

a reply to: boohoo

My experience has been wholly different.

My current job is due to one of them dropping tens of millions into some rebuilding an old home town, with the goal to be providing some stability in an instable oil market.

My education and pedigree are nonexistent. And he didn't hire me into a low paying position...he put me in charge of his money.

I know personal experiences, and all that....but my personal experiences don't jive with yours.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: boohoo

My experience has been wholly different.

My current job is due to one of them dropping tens of millions into some rebuilding an old home town, with the goal to be providing some stability in an instable oil market.

My education and pedigree are nonexistent. And he didn't hire me into a low paying position...he put me in charge of his money.

I know personal experiences, and all that....but my personal experiences don't jive with yours.

Than you clearly don't' know them the way I do.

a reply to: boohoo

I have no retort for a No Real Scotsman fallacy.

a reply to: olddognewtricks

I'll always find work. There's no job apocalypse from where I stand.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: boohoo

I have no retort for a No Real Scotsman fallacy.

You can believe whatever you like, it makes no difference as to how things really work. It is absolutely your right, to choose, to disbelieve the "sneak peak" that I have provided to you from behind the curtain. People whom share your disbelief, is precisely why working conditions for regular Americans will further degrade to the point of no return. Your kind "think" they have a good feel for what truly motivates those in the "Owners of Capital" class, but due to lack of candid exposure to those in that class, you don't realize how far away, you truly are, from grasping the gravity of the situation.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
My current job is due to one of them dropping tens of millions into some rebuilding an old home town, with the goal to be providing some stability in an instable oil market.

My education and pedigree are nonexistent. And he didn't hire me into a low paying position...he put me in charge of his money.

I know personal experiences, and all that....but my personal experiences don't jive with yours.

Like everything else in life, there are "nuances" and "exceptions to the rule".

I'll give you a hint, codes and regulations have almost entirely removed "invention" as a means for the underclass to drain wealth from the existing revenue streams, exclusively controlled by the true ownership classes. When you see someone become widely successful from "creating opportunity" through innovation, people like yourself have NOT SEEN the "vetting phase" that was done by the "Owners of Capital", prior to the "surface success" that you see in public view.

With that said, I don't expect you to tell me the life story of this employer of yours either.

a reply to: olddognewtricks

Hello! you are all welcome to my "substitute/replacement cigarette" shop! open every day, you can pay with animal or human skulls, food, water, guns and or ammo, and of course firstborn children, (someone needs to roll all those cigarros!)

a reply to: boohoo

A positive outlook goes a long way towards finding a journey job.

Just saying.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I'll always find work. There's no job apocalypse from where I stand.

Until the "owners of capital" change the laws, saying that the you need a state issued license, insurance policy and/or corporation issued certificate to keep legally doing, what you already do well, know how to make a profit from and have been doing for decades.

Or the easier way, just make the methodology that you use to do your work and make money illegal, replacing it with a method that requires you to go to school again.

originally posted by: InTheLight
If the paradigm shift to growing our own food (Victory gardens) takes hold, then people can find markets where to sell their goods, either as a cottage industry, expand with partners into a larger business, or to supplement an already existing income (most likely low paying - service industry), as well as providing busy richer people with personal services (delivery of fresh home grown veggies) as mentioned above.

There will always be areas of the law that are not sufficiently able to stop, some people, from finding creative LEGAL ways to make money (as was done in the past). However, as time passes, more laws are created, ON PURPOSE, to hinder those with an entrepreneurial spirit.

Why?

Because big corps and government want those parts of the untapped economy flowing SOLELY through officially vetted organizations.