Canadians take giant step towards North American Union?

a reply to: NHampshire

The 'Shadow Government' you speak of are corporations who buy your elections.

Stop Citizens United and they go away.

a reply to: TonyS

I'd agree that's how many Canadians feel about the U. S..

The irony is Canada as a political entity cannot and would not survive for even six months without the nation to the south.

Siamese twins with over 4000 miles of connection cannot be separated by Canadian hubris.

As far as Canadians rising up in indignation to a union? To be brutally frank, That is crap. If the U.S. Constitution which is far superior to any watered down version implemented in Canada, has been completely bypassed ignored and interpreted out of any recognition of the founding fathers. If with 23 million vets that swore on oath to preserve and defend that document with over 300 million weapons in their possession, do your really think your laws will be defended any better?

At least learn from the mistakes made in the U.S.. Arrogance isn't restricted to any one nation...

A North American Union is as revolting to the U.S. citizenry as the Canadians. Yet, all the immigration laws have been dumped. The Constitution by-passed with an influx of illegals offered work-permits and employers a 3000 dollar credit from the Feds for hiring these newly documented individuals. Pretty damn close to having to having 2/3 of the nations already there in fact if not name.

Now add in the U.N. laws of political asylum that Canada follows, now the refugees following after that policy, the new division in Canada, 'new Canadians' vs the old guard and tell me it's not in progress there as well.

If there was any inclination to revolt, be it literal or political, it would have happed decades ago. Be it Quebec, the west and the bleeding of it's taxes to the east with disproportionate power residing there, the Arcadians..

Sorry, but seeing the mess in the States has allowed the hubris to avoid the somewhat lesser mess that is Canada.

originally posted by: masqua
Oil isn't the only thing Alberta has got going for it. There's still good beef and some of the most beautiful country in Canada. I spent part of June and July in the mountains around Canmore and Banff this past summer and, going by the throngs of international tourists cramming the area, I'd say there's good money in that as well.

Oh, I know, it is getting others to understand that that is the problem. Ontario is the same, there is an abundance of untapped potential, just sitting there. Don't even get me started on what I think we should be doing (in all provinces) in regards to technology and advanced materials.

As for Ontario(?), well, I lived here most of my life and if there was ever a rust belt, it's in Hamilton and I lay the blame for the loss of hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs in the GTA directly at the feet of NAFTA, never mind the bust of 2008.

NAFTA was bad, but I do honestly think it gets much of its bad rep from a lot of government misinformation... politicians always pick the easiest scapegoats. We have had a lot of time to adapt around the negatives to NAFTA, but we haven't. And that applies to all province, not just Ontario. Heck, Alberta's diversification efforts have been stymied by the very same issue Ontario is facing...poor labour productivity growth.

We absolutely need a combined provincial effort (this is all provincial jurisdiction) in R&D (mostly the D) in manufacturing (high end), resource production (finished, not raw), inter-provincial infrastructure (all facets), power (generation & distribution), etc, etc. This is something every provincial politician has failed their constituencies with.

Thanks, Mulrony and Reagan. Tell me, are Irish Eyes still smilin'?

Come on...they both have fantastic chins.

a reply to: nwtrucker
That was a very long winded way of saying that you know nothing of Canada.
2nd.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
As far as Canadians rising up in indignation to a union? To be brutally frank, That is crap. If the U.S. Constitution which is far superior to any watered down version implemented in Canada, has been completely bypassed ignored and interpreted out of any recognition of the founding fathers. If with 23 million vets that swore on oath to preserve and defend that document with over 300 million weapons in their possession, do your really think your laws will be defended any better?

Insulting and ridiculous.

If there was any inclination to revolt, be it literal or political, it would have happed decades ago. Be it Quebec, the west and the bleeding of it's taxes to the east with disproportionate power residing there, the Arcadians..

Bt "east" do you mean Ont? Or the REAL East? Did you mean "Acadians"? The ones that got screwed by Mulroney selling away our fisheries to other countries..... for the benefit of the country. Yeah, NS used to be a HAVE province but was sold away so forgive me if I don't bleed for the western provinces. Oh, and you really should listen to the Canucks here. We know what we're talking aboot. Your assumptions are WAY off.

a reply to: peck420

I like your attitude about the state of the Canadian economy... so much untapped potential. If all those who graduated (at huge costs) from post-Secondary educations could find jobs related to their qualifications, Canada would be a powerhouse.

All it takes is political will to create those jobs by promoting R&D and start-ups.

At least Trudeau has suggested pouring money into infrastructure, which I'm sure will create a boon of well-paying jobs during his term.

It's a start.

a reply to: masqua

Man, you need to dig a bit deeper instead of buying into the pap on the net.

At least there's an alternative news source in the U.S.. Yours is gov't owned. The 'alternate networks' gov't regulated. At least there is....was freedom of the press here.

I will keep it simple here.

Gov't ARE corporations. period.

The Corporations have adapted. they are now socialists. (The exceptions prove the rule.)

Removing Citizens United changes nothing. The Corporations control the medias as well. It merely centralizes the power that controls media....and therefore controlling opinion/elections to even fewer individuals with their own agendas.

Witness the TPP, no information whatsoever. (This includes Canada....HELLO?) Where is the fight to expose this? Canada or the U.S.? Hello?

The TPP is a merger between the Gov'ts...corporations, themselves, and the 'commercial corporations, all in the name of power stabilized for the future.

Tell me Canada doesn't have the same power base running things. That they don't control your media? That the same message that got Trudeau elected isn't from the same source.

I've been to all fifty states, seven provinces and two territories. I have a hand-on understanding of both nations. Good people both. Same DNA both.

If you think Canada is somehow immune from the fate of the U.S., your terribly, terribly wrong. Both physically and psychologically, too close for either to look down noses at the other....

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: masqua I've been to all fifty states, seven provinces and two territories. I have a hand-on understanding of both nations. Good people both. Same DNA both.

If you think Canada is somehow immune from the fate of the U.S., your terribly, terribly wrong. Both physically and psychologically, too close for either to look down noses at the other....

Well, it's obvious you have the much better overview than I do. After all, you've visited seven provinces and two territories.

Those can't have been day trips, so I'll succumb to your superior judgement on our government. Too bad you don't vote here (or do you?)

I won't divulge that I've lived all over Canada (east, west and north) for over 60 years. It doesn't seem to mean much of anything you. Oh, and I'm a politics and news junkie... you know, that "pap" you mentioned.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
Witness the TPP, no information whatsoever. (This includes Canada....HELLO?) Where is the fight to expose this? Canada or the U.S.? Hello?

Did you miss the turfing of the government that brought this to our door?

Tell me Canada doesn't have the same power base running things. That they don't control your media? That the same message that got Trudeau elected isn't from the same source.

A good message is a good message, regardless of source.

Here was PM Trudeau's message: Real Change / Changer ensemble (Change together).

Hard to find a negative in this when the whole reason he won was because Canadians wanted change...together.

I've been to all fifty states, seven provinces and two territories. I have a hand-on understanding of both nations. Good people both. Same DNA both.

If you think Canada is somehow immune from the fate of the U.S., your terribly, terribly wrong. Both physically and psychologically, too close for either to look down noses at the other....

If you have been to 7 provinces and 2 territories, than you should damn well know...I, in Alberta, will always have the back of my brethren...as they have mine. Whether it is the day after the economy has collapsed, the day it has boomed, or the day after they have held a referendum about leaving this nation. They are to me as my family. Yes, we will argue. Yes, we will bicker. But, above all else, we will stand together. That wont change, even if the might of the US comes to our doors. I live as a Canadian, I will die as a Canadian.

a reply to: peck420

Change? Oh yes, that's right. Obama's advance election team...change. The same message Obama used....

We shall see what changes are wrought....

You'll die a Canadian? I tip my hat to you, sir. My respect. I would see Canada remain being Canada. The U.S.? Return to being the U.S..

a reply to: masqua

60 years? Cool. My 65th tomorrow.

Same area code then. Yep, trucked for years through both.

The 'pap' I was referring to was the citizens united point that is popular on the net. I rebutted. Was it not logical? Not valid?

It wasn't an invalidation of your life experiences. It was an overview of mine. Few have seen both to the degree I have. I does lend to an overview. It doesn't make me right or you wrong.

I don't trust any politician of any country or party. Power, control...I trust them not. North or south.....

a reply to: nwtrucker

Got you beat on age... I'm 69 (as if that matters: it's the life one lives).

Citizens United (afaik) is the law that says a corporation is a 'person'... something I completely disagree with. The people who work for it are persons, not the company. That corporations can donate millions to the politicians they 'like' is absolutely what is killing the government of the USA.

On the media in Canada: It's varied. There is a news outlet for just about every political stripe. There are those Liberals hate and others Conservatives hate. If you read them all, you get to see both sides of the arguments, which is healthy. The government only controls one of them via budget... the CBC and the last 10 years of Conservative control has seen that outlet decimated (yes, it was hated).

Anyways, no matter who is wrong or right in this debate, I will make one statement I believe to be absolutely true:

Canadians are very patriotic and will stand against any thought of a union with Mexico and America. We've had enough trouble with separatists and would not be willing to make it worse. That's my take fwiw.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
I've been to all fifty states, seven provinces and two territories. I have a hand-on understanding of both nations. Good people both. Same DNA both.

That's impressive. I've LIVED in every part of the country for over 50 years with the exception of NFLD. I defer to your VAST knowledge though.

a reply to: intrepid

A pissing contest? Still?

OK. How about the U.S.??? Been to all 50?

I'm referring to both, not an either or proposition at all.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
OK. How about the U.S.??? Been to all 50?

Nope. Just NY, ME, Migh, Cali, Ore and Wash. And I still have a more complete view of the States than you do of Canada.

I'm referring to both, not an either or proposition at all.

Really? What was with all that US "superior" crap then?

a reply to: nwtrucker


I've been in the States too. About the same with Europe.

People are the same pretty much everywhere I've been to... There's a lot of good people with a sprinkling of not-so-good people. The ones I didn't like were the ones who make broad generalizations about other people. I find it a little stifling conversation-wise.

a reply to: masqua

Cool response.

Harper had my respect. He based his policies on his views. They were not lock-step with the U.S..Someone new taking the reins. Hope it works out.

I believe corporations aren't people...obviously. Yet the same restrictions the left in the U.S. want on corporations wouldn't apply to Unions, Public sector or private. Super Pacs and other little loop holes out there. Not to mention a heavily left tilting, Corporate sponsored, traditional media.

I see zero evidence that Citizen United have altered the U.S. election process in any large degree. There are far, far more Billionaires, with and without their Corporations in the left camp than the right. It's not even close.

I would modify it with mandatory full disclosure of who donates to what individual, however. Freedom of choice with freedom to suffer the consequences as a result.....

a reply to: intrepid

The ONLY thing I see as superior is the U.S. Constitution. Otherwise, it's different strokes for different folks.

The concept of individual liberty is stronger in the U.S.. Ironically, fewer and fewer with less credence given to it as time goes on.

Not much else left that's particularly different.

Definitely worse drivers up north....at least in the west....LMAO

originally posted by: nwtrucker
Definitely worse drivers up north....at least in the west....LMAO

Have you ever driven in Montreal?

a reply to: intrepid

Really? More of a view of Canada? DRIVE across it, not fly-over. Route 16 Rupert through Portage and Main. Route 1, upper and lower through Ontario. Crow's Nest, via the south. Al-Can for two years into Alaska. All the way to Halifax repeatedly.

Did my basic training in CFB Cornwallis in '70. CPR Halifax to Vancouver courtesy of the Canadian Army...sorry, "land element". Right through Montreal with a layover right in the middle of the La Porte crisis in '70. (With a full U.S. Division sitting at the Maine border waiting to cross into Canada...

In other words I highly doubt it.

I will say things have changed in the Canadian attitude generally since the day. I know many. many Canadians that live in the U.S. as well. They have a different view of things as well, that I can see.....unless it's nothing but P.R....LOL