The Rapture: Fact Or Fiction?

a reply to: ketsuko
True. There's a lot we just don't know. When I was a Christian, I always liked the way the now deposed Mike Warnke put it. "It isn't a matter of when to be ready. It's to be ready whenever."

a reply to: ketsuko

Not to mention the Jesuit's infiltration of the protestant reformation . A lot of what is called Christian theology today is just confusion created by the Jesuit's imo .

a reply to: Klassified

Why do you think the 144,000 is literal? What part of Revelation sounds literal? The NT tells us Abraham's children are those with the faith of Abraham not determined by blood.

The 12 groups implies the 144,000 will come from all nations and tribes. If the Levites mentioned has any other meaning it signifies that part of the 144,000 comes directly from the church, while the rest come from all walks of life.

The same event is predicted in the Quran.

The tribulation separates mankind into 3 classes

1. When the inevitable occurs. 2. Of its occurrence, there is no denial. 3. Bringing low, raising high. 4. When the earth is shaken with a shock. 5. And the mountains are crushed and crumbled. 6. And they become scattered dust. 7. And you become three classes.

The three classes are defined as those on the left, those on the right and the forerunners.

The forerunners - 144,000 temple class

10. And the forerunners, the forerunners. 11. Those are the nearest. 12. In the Gardens of Bliss.13. A throng from the ancients. 14. And a small band from the latecomers. 15. On luxurious furnishings. 16. Reclining on them, facing one another. 17. Serving them will be immortalized youth. 18. With cups, pitchers, and sparkling drinks. 19. Causing them neither headache, nor intoxication. 20. And fruits of their choice. 21. And meat of birds that they may desire. 22. And lovely companions. 23. The likenesses of treasured pearls. 24. As a reward for what they used to do. 25. Therein they will hear no nonsense, and no accusations. 26. But only the greeting: “Peace, peace.”

Meaning of the above

The 144,000 will be those who's family lines have held onto the truth since ancient times and a few who have followed the truth in this generation without heritage. They will be kind hearted full love and peace for mankind.

The spouses and children of the temple class will reflect the Love of these leaders. Thus you will know them by their fruit.

Those on the Right - Congregation

27. And those on the Right—what of those on the Right? 28. In lush orchards. 29. And sweet-smelling plants. 30. And extended shade. 31. And outpouring water. 32. And abundant fruit. 33. Neither withheld nor forbidden. 34. And uplifted mattresses. 35. We have created them of special creation. 36. And made them virgins. 37. Tender and un-aging. 38. For those on the Right. 39. A throng from the ancients. 40. And a throng from the latecomers.

Meaning of the above

The congregation will be filled with Love and peaceful hearts. They will be raised up in God's Love that will not be withheld from them.

Virgin and un-aging means the congregation will have hearts pure and youthful full of undying faith.

The congregation will also include many members from the ancient heritage and many who repent as a result of the tribulation.

Those on the Left - Babylon the oppressors and unrepentant

The warning and the bowls of God's wrath.

41. And those on the Left—what of those on the Left? 42. Amid searing wind and boiling water. 43. And a shadow of thick smoke. 44. Neither cool, nor refreshing. 45. They had lived before that in luxury.46. And they used to persist in immense wrongdoing. 47. And they used to say, “When we are dead and turned into dust and bones, are we to be resurrected? 48. And our ancient ancestors too?” 49. Say, “The first and the last. 50. Will be gathered for the appointment of a familiar Day.” 51. Then you, you misguided, who deny the truth. 52. Will be eating from the Tree of Bitterness. 53. Will be filling your bellies with it. 54. Will be drinking on top of it boilingwater. 55. Drinking like thirsty camels drink. 56. That is their hospitality on the Day of Retribution.

My understanding of the scriptures is based on a combined study of all prophecies that deal with the tribulation at the end of this age and the beginning of a New Age.

Emerald Tablets

A similar prophecy of the three classes can be found in the Emeral Tablets.

Zohar

Predicts the end of the age comes during a rapidly advancing technological age.

Common for all Prophecies

Zoroastrian, Hindu, Buddist, Native American and other prophecies all predict a time that reflects the tribulation. They all predict a time where men's hearts will be cold, selfish and without Love for humanity.

They all predict a lack of understanding of the scriptures. The NT says all will be deceived even the elect if possible.

At this point the temple class, being lead by the Holy Spirit will lead men out of the tribulation and into the New Age.

The temple class will be able to explain the scriptures. The congregation will understand. Understanding will lead to repentance and a heart filled with Love from God and Love for humanity.

All prophesies concerning the end of this age begin with tribulation and end with a temple class leading the world into peace, the age of Christ.

a reply to: Transparent

As an atheist, I hope to god that the rapture is fiction. (I'm bad at jokes, but did you get it?)

The idea of the rapture is fairly new.

The term "Rapture" first became popular in the United States toward the end of the 19th century through the teachings on premillennialism and dipensationalism by John Nelson Darby, an Irish evangelist. The rapture theory continued to grow in popularity among evangelicals largely due to a preacher named William Eugene Blackstone (1841-1935). His book, Jesus is Coming, sold more than one million copies.

christianity.about.com...

1. Rapture doctrine is one of the most recent "new doctrines" in the history of the Church. The only doctrine more recent is the invention of the sinner's prayer for salvation by Billy Sunday in 1930, which was made popular by Billy Graham in 1935. 2. The fact that John Nelson Darby invented the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine around 1830 AD is unquestionably true. All attempts to find evidence of this wild doctrine before 1830 have failed, with a single exception: Morgan Edwards wrote a short essay as a college paper for Bristol Baptist College in Bristol England in 1744 where he confused the second coming with the first resurrection of Revelation 20 and described a "pre-tribulation" rapture. However Edwards ideas, which he admitted were brand new and never before taught, had no influence in the modern population of the false doctrine. That prize to goes to Darby. 3. Prior to 1830, no church taught it in their creed, catechism or statement of faith.

www.bible.ca...

originally posted by: Transparent
The Rapture: Fact Or Fiction?

Fiction!

ARKANSAS CITY (AP) — A Little Rock woman was killed yesterday after leaping through her moving car's sun roof during an incident best described as "a mistaken rapture" by dozens of eye witnesses. Thirteen other people were injured after a twenty-car pile up resulted from people trying to avoid hitting the woman who was apparently convinced Jesus that the rapture was occurring when she saw twelve people floating up into the air, and then passed a man on the side of the road who she claimed was Jesus.

"She started screaming "He's back, He's back" and climbed right out of the sunroof and jumped off the roof of the car," said Everett Williams, husband of 28-year-old Georgann Williams who was pronounced dead at the scene. "I was slowing down but she wouldn't wait till I stopped," Williams said.

She thought the rapture was happening and was convinced that Jesus was gonna lift her up into the sky," he went on to say. "This is the strangest thing I've seen since I've been on the force," said Paul Madison, first officer on the scene. Madison questioned the man who looked like Jesus and discovered that he was dressed up as Jesus and was on his way to a toga costume party when the tarp covering the bed of his pickup truck came loose and released twelve blow up sex dolls filled with helium which floated up into the air.

Ernie Jenkins, 32, of Fort Smith, who's been told by several of his friends that he looks like Jesus, pulled over and lifted his arms into the air in frustration, and said , "Come back here," just as the Williams' car passed him, and Mrs. Williams was sure that it was Jesus lifting people up into the sky as they passed by him, according to her husband, who says his wife loved Jesus more than anything else.

When asked for comments about the twelve sex dolls, Jenkins replied "This is all just too weird for me. I never expected anything like this to happen."
Read more at www.snopes.com...

a reply to: namelesss

Oh man that story is dripping with irony!

I'm sorry, but Jesus isn't coming back. The rapture already happened 2000 years ago and apparently everyone missed it.

Now don't get mad at me for saying so. If you don't like this concept, get mad at Jesus and your bible. That is what He and the bible say, not me. In the bible when asked about his return he said the following verses below. Now others (epistles and Revelation) may say differently, but how would they know better than Jesus himself? It would seem like He should be the authority on his return moreso than Paul and whomever else, shouldn't He?

He was very clear about it and stated it in a number of instances in the gospels. Here's what He said when asked about his return. Note that a "generation" is normally considered to be around 40 years or so in biblical parlance (and even so today).
---------------
26 At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
28 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. (Mark 13:26-30)

26 What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. (Matthew 16:26-28)

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. (Matthew 24:30-35)

25 There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26 People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”
29 He told them this parable: “Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30 When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.
32 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. (Luke 21:25-32)
----------------------------------

There are actually more verses and things that he said to prove this than just the above, but I figured that should be enough to prove the point.

originally posted by: dezertdog
a reply to: namelesss

Oh man that story is dripping with irony!

(You ain't asking me to mop up, are you?)
It isn't gravity, or co-valent bonds, holding things together in the Universe, it's IRONY! *__-

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: dezertdog
a reply to: namelesss

Oh man that story is dripping with irony!

(You ain't asking me to mop up, are you?)
It isn't gravity, or co-valent bonds, holding things together in the Universe, it's IRONY! *__-

Nah, no need for a mop, I like irony. Besides if I'm buying what your selling the mess will clean itself.

a reply to: namelesss

Hilarious story, but it, too - is fiction.

From your link to the story on snopes:

Origins: This inventive work of fiction was penned and released onto the Internet on 2 August 2001. It was written by Elroy Willis, proprietor of Religion in the News, a site that warns visitors what they're in for:
Some of these stories are really true.
See if you can figure out which ones they are.
Apparently
some readers didn't manage to work out which were which, because this tale has washed up in our inbox numerous times since its debut.

In October 2001, the story was repeated in the pages of The Weekly World News, a tabloid whose stock in trade is sensationalistic fiction written up in the style of news accounts.

Other that that, you and I agree. The "Rapture" is fiction.

And just in case people think it is a word that is solely related to some bizarre Jesus eventuality:

rap·ture
/ˈrapCHər/

noun

1. a feeling of intense pleasure or joy "Leonora listened with rapture" synonyms: ecstasy, bliss, exaltation, euphoria, elation, ... more
2. (according to some millenarian teaching) the transporting of believers to heaven at the Second Coming of Christ

This is one of those fun topics that really makes me glad that while I am certainly spiritual, and believe in God (most likely not your definition) I find religion and "Holy texts" to be utterly fake. And with the rapture, you're looking at a topic that not even every branch of Christianity subscribes to.

One day, God is going to just end the world and everyone will either go to Heaven or Hell. Then, after that, what happens? God looks around and says, "Well crap. What the hell am I going to do now?"

Well, according to this website:

"This doctrine is not really found in the book of Revelation. If you read the book of Revelation, you won't find any mention of the rapture there," said William Craig, a Research Professor of Philosophy at Talbot School of Theology and Professor of Philosophy at Houston Baptist University.

Instead, Craig says, the idea of the rapture comes from a "misinterpretation of 1 and 2 Thessalonians where Paul is describing the coming of the Lord and resurrection of the dead, which will occur at His coming."

Read more at www.christianpost.com... 99

Christianpos t.com

I always thought the "rapture" was something invented by more modern day evangelicals to scare people into following the church:

The idea that the godly would be “raptured,” or literally sucked into the air to meet Christ, was reportedly popularized by a dispensationalist British minister, John Nelson Darby, in the 1830s after a Scottish teenager had visions of Christ’s return.

Evangelical U.S. Christians learned about it from an early 20th century Bible, and the idea gained popularity among Christian fundamentalists here until it became a cultural touchstone.

One branch of Christian theology, dispensational premillennialism, holds that Christ will physically return to earth to sort the wicked from the godly before a tribulation, when anyone left behind will suffer various torments and plagues.

Prominent in this school of thought is Texan evangelical Hal Lindsey, whose literalist screed The Late, Great Planet Earth became a best seller in 1970, later spawning follow-ups Satan Is Alive and Well on Planet Earth and The 1980s: Countdown to Armageddon (the latter of which sounds like a sketch featuring Dana Carvey’s “Church Lady” on Saturday Night Live). During the 2008 election, Lindsey wrote that Barack Obama was paving the way for the Antichrist.

Time.com

So no, you aren't going to get sucked up into heaven for watching your P's and Q's....

a reply to: Elcabong

You are missing one important concept found in Revelation and all other scriptures. The 1000 year reign of Christ.

Revelation 20
20 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.....I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

My understanding is the resurrection of the dead in Christ is spiritual. The Buddhist philosophy says we can resurrect the Buddha's, Prophets, and Marty's of the pasts in our hearts. So we will spiritually resurrect in our hearts all of the martyrs for Christ.

Satan is released after the 1000 years. The arrogant and the selfish won't be resurrected in the hearts of men until after the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Unless I habe missed something there has been no 1000 year period were the world lived in peace and all mankind was brought together by the Holy Spirit and brotherly Love.

My personal feelings on why this is the tribulation and the Revelation is soon to take place.

The men who brought us the Light all came to the same conclusion. All the scriptures point to the age of enlightenment. All the teachers tell us that when the world appears darkest is when it is most ready to awaken. They did not explain the age comming gradually but rather they all prophecy a defining moment.

Since the age of electricity, which represents the physical light, mankind has been drawn towards a physical enlightenment. The extenal light of electricity has been the light that has brought spiritual death to the world.

It was not when Christ, the physical representation of the Spiritual Light was living that his disciples became liberated. It was only through his death and resurrection that his disciples became liberated.

This is the MO we can see repeating itself in all doctrine relating to the beginning of the new age. Mankind is not liberated when the Spiritual Light is shining but is liberated through the death and rebirth of the Spiritual Light.

It is easy to get caught up in thinking the world has always been dark and assume a gradual less defining moment. However, this idea is disputed by all the prophetic teaching.

Something is different now then in antiquity, technology. Technology has connected us to physical objects or interactions minus real human connections. The technology wich has been part of the death of man spiritually will be the resurrection of man, which is also prophesied.

Through the interconnectedness that technology has presented us, the technology that bound us so tightly to the physical world will be the same technology that liberates us.

What I see is a world desperate for a savior. And although many believe they need a sign from above their desperation and the prophecies proclaim that they do not need a miraculous sign.

It doesn't matter who the message of One Vehicle comes from. Ghandi believed all religions were based on the same foundation, one Creator and One Holy Spirit, this is the One Vehicle. Ghandi could have lead the world to liberation if the world had access to him.

The world simply needs to hear that it is ok to Love one another. Mankind needs to be reminded that all the scriptures predict troubled times followed by peace. And most importantly everyone needs to be reminded we are working on God's clock. As the Quran says there should be no compulsion (forced) religion. God himself will suffice as liberator.

The creation waits eagerly for it's liberation. Everyone is waiting to be told it's ok to love one another. We are ready for the scriptures to be revealed. But the world is not naive, only trapped.

This is why it is prophesied that many will lead the way, and those that lead the way must truly believe in the One Vehicle taught by many skillful ways. We must regard the Prophets equally. It is not necessary that all believe the exact same message. It is only important that all believe in the message of their prophet.

The Love of man has nearly died, this is how we know mankind will embrace Love. It is the last thing left to hold onto to. We don't need or want anymore pain and devastation. We don't want war. We simply need to be reminded that it's ok to Love and Live peacefully with our neighbors even if we remain in disagreement on some things.

By revealing the scriptures the congregation will become empowered. Their shackles removed, they will see the true light within. Their minds free from what has controlled them, they will no longer be trapped by silly mind games.

Many have concluded that any revelation is the day of judgment. But this is not so, nor is this truly the age of enlightenment. These are the growing pains where the age becomes visible and obtainable, but the day of judgment remains unknown. Will men be judged? Yes, but only by Grace. God's judgment remains a mystery.

Whether I am right that I will see this day and even take part in it is still uncertain. No promises have been made to any of us. But the signs and prophecies tell me that the world is ready to be liberated.

Maybe it is my journey to the Light that brings me to this conclusion. My mind could not be liberated directly through the scriptures, nor did I have a teacher. My mind was only liberated through prayer.

How can I not believe in the age prophesied by those who told me I would be liberated through prayer? And how can anyone who believes not want to take hold of it?

If you are going to believe the Bible, then you are going to believe that the children of God will be caught up into the air.

Side note: I really like William Lane Craig. Too bad he's ignorant about the Bible. He's an excellent debater and good at making a case for God, but he actually admits that he's not a Bible scholar (at least, an Old Testament scholar), so people shouldn't listen to him for Bible knowledge. He's simply excellent at proving God with reason.

That being said, anyone who is saying that the children of God will not be caught up have not read the Bible. You're listening to someone else, but it is not the Bible.

It is not the Bible that confuses us about what it says. It is the opinions of others that confuse us about what it says.

Just read it yourself.

It's not bad to get the opinion of others, but the opinion of another person doesn't provide enough evidence. It simply doesn't and it will not ever. But reading the Bible itself will give you knowledge as to what the Bible says. Whether you believe the Bible or not, that should not cause an effect as to whether you are able to see what it says or not. It may prevent you from understanding some deeper meanings, but it won't prevent you from understanding exactly what is said in the Bible.

The verses have already been posted here. I feel it is redundant to post them again. It's obvious what "harpazo" is.

Then the question is "when"?

Someone else said that the Rapture took place 2000 years ago and is basing this judgment upon the verse wherein Jesus said that all those things will happen in that generation and also that some will not taste of death until those things occur.

First of all, that generation of which He speaks is not the 20 or 40 year generation. It is the generation of the age of Christ. Some call it the Church age. As well, recall that Jesus reprimanded one other disciple concerning John by saying, "What is it to you if I have him tarry until I come?" Now we know that it was also said that Jesus didn't say that John would tarry until He came, but rather, what IS it to that disciple if Jesus desired that?

That means it is entirely within reason that Jesus was also relating that it is possible that some may indeed wait and not die until He comes back.

That happens to be exactly what He is saying. There are some who will not taste of death, till He comes.

There is no reason to think otherwise. For all the signs which Jesus said would come before that time and before the generation ends have not happened. Jesus did not come back in His cloud of angels and He has not sent His angels to reap the harvest of souls. It simply has not happened yet. Proof is that we are all still here - child of God and child of the devil alike.

When Jesus was resurrected, He walked around for a time, yes. But also, He was raptured. It's easy to see in the Scriptures. Since He is the second Adam, and we are to take after Him, it is only fitting that we should go in the same way that He did. That was His entire point.

If you don't like the word "rapture", then call it "ascension". But also know that it is not a mere ascension, but also that the angels are sent to bring us up. "Caught up" is definitely more accurate to me.

Now, we also know that there will be tribulation before the Son of man comes in His glory. Therefore, anyone who is thinking pre-tribulation does not know what they are talking about.

I consider that maybe we are so desensitized that we may not realize that this world is going through some tough tribulation right now. If one considers with reason, the tribulation will not affect everyone equally. Every individual will have their own experience.

For example, 1/3 of the ships in the sea will be destroyed by a mountain that is cast into the sea. We know that hasn't happened yet. However, the other 2/3 of the people on ships will not experience the tribulation the same way. The horror will be in sight and knowledge, but not in experience.

But what of other events?

Christians are destroyed everyday for their faith. There is tribulation.

Paul begs us to consider the suffering or tribulation of our brothers and sisters as if we were actually there with them.

Now you may not see the suffering, or even hear of it, but look and you will find. Know it, and your imagination will be able to fill in the blanks.

I was in a thread at some point and a poster mentioned Emanuel Swedenborg. I looked him up and read about him. There is a set of churches founded upon some of his works and beliefs and claimed visions. I read their statements and one of their claims is that "God is Man Himself". Look up Swedenborgianism and some of the church websites and wikis.

I will not be surprised if their version of Christianity turns out to be what gives birth to the Antichrist, seeing as how God tells us that the antichrist will do that very thing, making himself to be God.

And how else could everyone be deceived by this deceiver if the deceiver wasn't also a Christian in practice? How could the very elect be potentially deceived if this weren't so?

I know what the Bible says. The word rapture is not in the Bible, so if people are touchy, I won't use it here.

But the children of God will be caught up. This is still the generation of Christ. There are some old people that have not died. These things make sense. The Bible says so, very clearly. I will never understand one's need to "interpret" the Bible as if it is some mystery. In the Bible we are told, especially through Paul, that there are no more mysteries and that we are made perfect in knowledge. Enoch is an old man that never died. Elijah is. Moses was resurrected. Jesus was resurrected. A day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day unto God - let's not be willfully ignorant. It's entirely possible for 2 days to equal 2 thousand years. That's well within the bounds of a normal generation, is it not? And these things aren't interpreted, but are simple. The Bible tells us these things straightforward without the need to make up anything. We simply apply what the Bible says to itself. That's all.

When you see what God has allowed, then it shouldn't be a stretch to understand that He means what He says.

Jesus the man does not know the hour. God the Father does know. God the Father is in Jesus and the children of God are in Jesus and He is in the Father. Therefore, when the Father let's Jesus know, "It's time", then I believe that we will know in the Spirit that it is time. We won't need calendars, we won't need specific signs, and we certainly don't need the Hebrew calendar to discern these things. God isn't on the Hebrew time anymore. He ended that in 70 A.D. with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.

God is on His own time.

There will be signs in the stars, but these will not be about the feasts and the new moons and the sabbaths, for all of those pointed to Christ. All of that was fulfilled in His life, death, and resurrection.

Jesus didn't say watch the stars. He didn't say watch the news. He said there would be signs, but that is ambiguous.

He said to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul. And also, love your neighbor as yourself.

He gave the law of liberty. He didn't give the law of death, but He fulfilled it to save us.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

I think the saying that many will not taste death has a highly esoteric meaning that is found within the scriptures.

John 19:30
When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Quran 4:157
And for their saying, “We have killed
the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of God.” In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it,
except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him.

Jesus gave up his Spirit, he never tasted death. His Spirit left his body and returned to the father before his physical body perished. He was not killed by the crucifixion, one without sin is not worthy of death. He gave up his Spirit so it only appeared that he died.

1 Corinthians 15:50
I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

When Stephen was martyred he fell asleep, he did not taste death.

Acts 7:59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.

The Tibetan Book of the dead teaches enlightenment by overcoming the fear of dying. It says at the time of death you can give up your spirit, and those who don't suffer. There is a visualization that one can use when they know the time of death is at hand. Image your teacher sitting on top of your head let go of your body and allow your spirit to ascend to your teacher.

If someone gives his Spirit to God, can he be said to taste death because the physical body perished?

Mathew 16:28 And I tell you the truth, some standing here right now will not die before they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom."

Acts 7:55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

Stephen saw the Son of Man in his kingdom standing next to God.

Will there be a miraculous sign and a physical second coming? I don't know. Anyone who says they know shouldn't be trusted as a prophet IMO. It has already been settled that no one will know rhe day or hour. I believe that also implies the scriptures are not fully revealed until God is ready.

It's not esoteric and the Quran has no authority concerning the Bible. Let the Quran speak for the Quran and let the Bible speak for the Bible. The same for the Tibetan book of the dead. You speak to the philosophy of man and not the Word which is the beginning and end of all philosophy. Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. Visit the widow in her affliction, and take care of the orphan. Stay unspotted from the world; or do not find yourself being condemned for things which are harmful to yourself or others, also by the law of the world, if possible. That is an extremely easy philosophy and it is the best one.

But since you introduce it, let me tell you that they killed Him. He died. When He gave up the spirit, He died. He was put into a grave. One only puts the dead into a grave. One can only be resurrected if they are dead. Though the spirit belongs to God, the body is dead. But the body is the fingerprint of the individual, it is the defining characteristic of the individual in spirit. Therefore, the body is like a name to a spirit, for spirits do not have form, but they have character. The body gives form. The form died, therefore, the spirit is given back to God from whom that spirit came, since all spirit came from God. But the character of the spirit is formed by God or the devil. That spirit which is formed by God is taken to paradise, but that spirit which is formed by the devil is cast into hell. Now I have made a lot of long words that look similar towards a gnostic view, which you seem to lean towards. But all these words are made more simple in the Bible. You have taken from other books and you have tried to divide the word which God gave us by books created by people who do not have that word. That is a fallacy. One does not judge Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's "The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes" by Edgar Rice Burroughs' "The Adventures of Tarzan". It is a fallacy because each author has their own intent.

You are correct in your statement that Jesus referred to death as "sleeping". But in order to be put into that sleep, you have to die in the body.

When you die in the body, you taste of death.

The taste of death does not imply the death of the spirit of man. It implies the death of the body of man. That is to be killed, that is to die. This is very obvious and it cannot be explained away by means of any esoteric teaching. Go into a hospital and watch someone die and you will change your mind. They did not fall asleep in the way that we consider sleep.

One cannot be martyred unless they die.

Stephen's eyes were opened indeed when he was dying. This doesn't mean he didn't die. It is more likely that the reason his eyes were opened is to continue his faith for the last few moments of his stoning and death. The Lord helps those who love Him indeed.

Another thing that you say, that you would NOT trust a prophet if he knew that there would be a miraculous sign and a physical second coming.

How hypocritical can a statement get? You imply that you believe that prophets exist, but you will only believe them if they don't know the future? What a useless prophet that would be!

You should read the Bible for what it is instead of trying to divide it with your own ideas or with the ideas of other books. But you will do what you will because you do not believe the simple things that are stated in the Bible unless you are able to find some way to get the words to fit into the program you've developed for yourself.

An apple is always an apple. One may compare an apple to an orange and point out similarities, but as soon as one tries to judge the apple by the orange, then the apple will be explained away as if it is not at all an apple anyway.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

And that is the type of open mind that leads to loving your neighbor?

Or maybe Muslims are not your neighbor. I know Muslims are my neighbor and calling their prophet a fraud is not loving them.

Nor is condemning someone for not believing exactly what you believe.

You don't follow your own advice. Why should anyone listen to you?

You speak to the philosophy of man and not the Word which is the beginning and end of all philosophy. Love God and love your neighbor as yourself.

You really should try it, it's actually good advice.

I speak what the scriptures say, I don't follow any man, I follow the Holy Spirit.

You manipulate and you lie.

It is love to call the liar of the Quran a liar because that is what he is and all that follow the liar will suffer the same fate as the liar.

That is love.

Muslims are my neighbors indeed. And therefore, to see them be at liberty instead of in a lie is my desire.

You don't know what love is. You have, once again, created your own program without understanding what love actually is.

You don't speak what the scriptures say because you don't read them. You do not follow the Holy Spirit if you call a false prophet good.

These are easy things to understand.

Having an open mind is good for learning. But when knowledge is found, why keep searching?

When one strikes oil, do they keep digging around the well to see if they were right? Or does the oil present evidence that they have hit the right spot? Then there is no reason to move around anymore.

When one finds a fossil, does one keep digging around to see if that fossil is where they found it? Or do they see that the fossil is evidence of where it is? Therefore, there is no reason to move around anymore.

Also therefore is it good to have an open mind until you have struck oil and until you have found the fossil. But at that point, it is no longer good to have the open mind. The eyes should be narrowed on the prize and the work should be focused and completed at that time, lest someone else come around and steal the treasure from underneath your nose.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Personally, I don't plan on dying. There may be some people who morn when I take up residence in heaven. But I will not taste death, because no one who has ETERNAL LIFE can die.

Immortals don't die, they become free. Jesus sacrificed his physical body for us, but he did not die.

Many of the Jews believed that physical death was the end of existence and thus did not believe in eternal life. This is why Jesus sacrificed his physical body by giving his Spirit to his fsther on the cross. 3 days later he was resurrected, and it is through his resurrection that the promise of immortality was made certain.

6 Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, “My brothers, I am a Pharisee, descended from Pharisees. I stand on trial because of the hope of the resurrection of the dead.” 7 When he said this, a dispute broke out between the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and the assembly was divided. 8 (The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees believe all these things.)