Hendricus G Loos, Master of Mind Control

originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: Bedlam

a minuscule amount of heat would be transmitted as heat. the photons themselves would release their energies and scatter under the skin which would in theory activate random nerve firing in the affected area.
the amount of nerves firing would depend on the modulation of the intensity of the pulses. get the nerves to start firing in sync with the pulses on average and according to the patent this signal will affect changes in a human CNS

Actually, in theory they wouldn't. Why would they? The amount of energy conveyed by photons from a monitor is pissant when compared to much larger effects going on in your skin. Your nervous system is designed to filter out small crap like that. It would be easy to instrument. Did he? No...and Bob's your uncle.

eta: I notice you didn't do the math. I don't blame you, the numbers will be abysmally low. You're going to have to postulate that great numbers of skin heat sensors can trigger on a millionth C variations or something, which isn't going to happen. Not only that, skin temp sensors are not fast. What sort of "subliminal message" are you going to communicate with tenth second undetectable pulses, if you had them, which you don't?

IMHO, the only "subliminal" input that's going to influence someone through skin temp is going to involve an iron, a soldering iron, or a poker or the like. I can influence the absolute hell out of you, and it won't be subliminal. But it's not "mind control".

Do this. Ignore the hocus-pocus technobabble of the patent. Now, sitting there, what sort of evil subliminal mind control do you think I can cause by, say, tapping you with a warm water balloon? Think I can make you into a godless commie, or go kill someone, or see visions? I don't.

a reply to: Bedlam

This is made with sound, patterns with sound, im thinking if it can be used as a stimuli, maybe the skin could be like the chladni plate? Just theories tho...

originally posted by: Hyperia
a reply to: Bedlam

This is made with sound, patterns with sound, im thinking if it can be used as a stimuli, maybe the skin could be like the chladni plate? Just theories tho...

While it looks all neat and amazing, what you're seeing there are the ridges around which the plate flexes. The clear areas are moving up and down, very slightly. The sand/flour moves to the stationary bits. And that's it.

I know it looks all sciency, but it's not all that.

a reply to: Bedlam

The human mind is set up to filter out random noise.
When presented with a steady pattern or pulse the brain tries to process the information.
if the lights from a monitor can facilitate a fluctuating pattern of nerve firing then it can be used to manipulate the cns
So i guess a really easy way to test this premise is to rig up a flashlight or something to pulse at 1/2 hz on someone's skin and record any effects. Otherwise im not convinced that photons cant cause random nerve firi

originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: Bedlam

The human mind is set up to filter out random noise.
When presented with a steady pattern or pulse the brain tries to process the information.

Actually, you end up ignoring it totally. You use stochastic filtering that tends to remove that sort of thing.

You've got two insurmountable "what ifs"

1) what if...you can detect light from a monitor as heat. Ain't happening. You can't detect it. I know you desperately want this to be true for some reason, but a back of an envelope and a few minutes and you'll see that you have no hope in hell of detecting ambient light as heat.

2) what if...you DO detect the heat, subliminally? Ok. What do you expect can be conveyed with very slow pulses? Certainly not images, or sounds, or any sort of data at any bandwidth. If your mind was set up to analyze heat input as some sort of data, which it's also not.

For me, both are ridiculous, but then I have a grasp of physics AND biology.

OTOH, a soldering iron up the bunghole and a variac, and you've got the fabled "100 questions of the Lubyanka", which will get your attention in an unforgettable way, but which I wouldn't call "mind control".

Seriously, unless you can show me a rational way that tapping someone's arm with a warm object causes "mind control", your argument fails. I know there's a hand-waving bafflegab step in there from the "photon emission" piffle, but remove it and it looks a lot less enticing. Thinking about an interrogator tapping your face with a damp warm rag to mesmerize you just falls flat. So if it makes it good for you to stick in a laser or "EM wave" then ok, but that's just a way to make it more sciency.

a reply to: Bedlam

Im not saying you FEEL it as HEAT. Im saying that many photons penetrating several mms into the skin will transfer their energy and cause nerves to fire.
Cause the nerves to fire at times intervals, say , 1/2 hz will cause a measurable effect.
I want that try this at home.
No soldering irons or bungholes necessary.
I hope

originally posted by: Hyperia
This is made with sound, patterns with sound, im thinking if it can be used as a stimuli, maybe the skin could be like the chladni plate? Just theories tho...

If you removed the skin from the animal, dried it out and stretched it tight, you could probably make Chladni patterns on the dried out and stretched skin. The old drum heads were made from stretched animal skins and authentic re-enactments which have drummers sometimes still use stretched animal skins on their drums.

The problem with trying to make Chladni patterns while the skin is still attached to a living animal is the flesh attached to the skin tends to dampen vibrations, and the skin usually isn't stretched tight enough on a living animal to make a very good resonator which is what you need to form Chladni patterns. Even if you could make Chladni patterns on living skin I don't see how it can result in mind control.

a reply to: Bedlam
A lot of the claims don't sound plausible to me either. One claim I found interesting was that a 2.5 Hz low level audio signal below the level of conscious hearing might make someone feel drowsy. While I don't know if that claim is true or not, there are still some problems with it when trying to work it into a conspiracy theory. As a general rule it seems like tiny little speakers never reproduce bass or low frequencies very well and you need larger and larger speakers to make lower and lower frequencies, so it seems to me like ordinary speakers and amplifiers would not do much with 2.5 hz signals.

Maybe if you had a special apparatus specifically designed to make these 2.5 Hz audio waves it might have some effect such as drowsiness, though I'm not sure I'd call that a form of mind control. I think just tuning into congress on C-span might put many people to sleep faster.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

if any of the claims made by the patent are true, they rely on the nervous system to be able to register(albeit subliminally) the input stimulus.
whether it is photons pitterpattering off and through the dermis or acoustic waves that are practically inaudible, the claim is that the nerves that DO fire from the input will relay a message to the brain, and also according to the patent different pulse rates will have different effects on the CNS.
I would be overjoyed if this set of patents were a sham, but they have been renewed at least twice, probably at no small expense, and contain mention of working models and human subjects.
So, as in investigations of any sort of BS, what would be the Motive for spending the time and money to make up a totally fictitious patent?
and then renew it several times?

a reply to: dashen
My guess is, the motive is to provide something in return for the money being spent on research.

Are there any products which use these patents?

If you say maybe there are but it's a secret which ones do, why do you even need the patents? It seems like the patent draws attention to something which is the opposite of what you want if you're trying to keep it a secret.

originally posted by: Bedlam


Actually, you end up ignoring it totally. You use stochastic filtering that tends to remove that sort of thing.

interestingly enough he actually wrote the book on it

a reply to: Arbitrageur

that doesnt answer my question.
why would he lie, make up theories of operation, working models and test subjects, spend all that money for filing, patent searches, AND renewals?
Especially when he seems to be a very accomplished scientist who has been working on advanced technology for the government and security contractors for over half a century

originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: Arbitrageur

that doesnt answer my question.
why would he lie, make up theories of operation, working models and test subjects, spend all that money for filing, patent searches, AND renewals?
Especially when he seems to be a very accomplished scientist who has been working on advanced technology for the government and security contractors for over half a century

Well then we're even because you didn't answer my question either about whether any of these patented concepts are used in any actual products.

I never accused him of lying, more like exaggerating, stretching the truth and perhaps drawing unfounded correlations in some cases. I'm still not sure if there is an actual "him", have you got a picture of this famous guy or is it a pseudonym?

And I did answer your question; maybe you didn't like the answer. Whoever is doing this research is getting funding, and if someone asks "what have we got to show for this funding?" a plausible answer could be "we've got these patents right here". Well if someone is providing the money for funding the research, what's a little bit more for filing the patents? I don't have all the answers but if you want me to speculate that's my speculation on these patents. However if you find that any of them are being used in actual products i'd find that very interesting so please let me know.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

how would i know if they are being used?
apparently the patents rely on a frequency and amplitude modulator that cause pulsations in image or sound output from electronic devices in the 1/2 to 15 hz range.
its a fairly simple thing to do.
i intend to do this with LEDs on myself and willing victims, er, test subjects in a double blind test.
until then cant really say anything for certain

a reply to: Arbitrageur

the fact that he has a REAL and somewhat famous daughter lends credence to the fact that he is in fact a real person.
and if Mr Hendricus is really the man his patents and books make him out to be, then it is no wonder that it will be difficult to track down information about him personally. Working for Darpa and all.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

So exoskeleton will form a pattern if it's in the sea? Turtle?

a reply to: dashen

I gave it to a research and engineer department to look at..

a reply to: Hyperia

Maybe they should have a look at this thread and see if any of the things mentioned here help confirm or deny the plausibility of the patents

originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: Arbitrageur

how would i know if they are being used?

Usually manufacturers are proud to proclaim their products are protected by patents so you can often find such references in Google searches. I didn't do any exhaustive search but I did search a while and didn't have any luck finding any real products.

originally posted by: Hyperia
a reply to: Arbitrageur

So exoskeleton will form a pattern if it's in the sea? Turtle?

You want to mind control some turtles?

The exoskeletons are rigid enough but you've still got a problem with water dampening the oscillations, so it's more feasible than on human skin but if it worked at all it wouldn't work nearly as well as the demonstrations you normally see on youtube.

originally posted by: Hyperia
a reply to: dashen

I gave it to a research and engineer department to look at..

I've hired and fired my fair share of engineering managers in my career who had whole departments of engineers working for them, and most of those engineers weren't as good as bedlam (in fairness we weren't trying to hire engineers as good as bedlam as we didn't have the budget or the need for that level of expertise). While it's never a bad idea to get a second or third opinion, you've already got a very good source of engineering expertise commenting in this thread.

originally posted by: beansidhe

originally posted by: Bybyots
HENDRICUS G LOOS

Is an anagram for:

SOURCE HOLDINGS.

*shrug*

Or G.I. shroud clones.

*shiver*

I like the Source Holdings. Combine that with this information and you have the start of a Tom Clancy novel.

Source Holdings Limited is a holding company. The company is based in George Town, Cayman Islands. Source Holdings Limited operates as a subsidiary of The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. and Goldman Sachs Global Holdings L.L.C.

www.bloomberg.com... ivcapid=39505169
Not much else listed however.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I don't think it is engineering expertise that we need in this case but rather someone with neuroscience education who can tell If photon pulses will cause firing of cutaneous nerves.
If that is in fact the case then we can proceed to the next step of Proving or disproving the functionality of this patent