Islamophobia, is it even a thing?

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

There is really so much variation when translated into English. In Arabic the Quran is a song. Many verses are partial due to the nature of keeping the rhythm.

The English translations try to turn a song, that is often choppy and incomplete in thought, into a book that reads clearly. By doing this they often add meaning which creates slight contradictions to other verses.

The problems with most English Interpretation are as follows.

1. The Quran creates a near equality for men and women but some verses you will find have misogynist twist when translated.

2. The Quran talks about people who don't believe in God as disbelivers. This idea has been translated in a way that makes it sound like every non Muslim is an Infidel not worthy of life, similar to the Jewish Talmud interpretation of Gentile. However when the word is translated as simple disbelief or non believer it fits better within the context. The Quran speaks highly of Christians and Jews who live peacefully with Muslims. So the Quran doesn't support the term Infidel and what it implies.

3. Many translations add Mohammeds name. But his name doesn't fit in many places. The Quran predicts another messenger, someone who will translate the OT, NT and Quran as One religion, using all 3 texts not just the Quran.

When the name Mohammed is added it implies that the Quran is the only valid book, but the Quran itself say the previous scriptures are from God and are only corrupt by misunderstanding, not by being changed. The Quran specifically states that God's word can not be changed but can be misunderstood.

Mohammed didn't actually do what the verses say the last messenger will do. This is how it can be understood that it can't be Mohammed whose name fits the passage.

The Quran is in part a song to the messenger who will bring the world to peace through proper understanding.

4. The Hadith has heavily influenced some interpretations. Sharia law as it has been implemented is not in the Quran. The Hadith is the birthplace of all evil attributed to the Quran. In the Jewish faith the Talmud is the same. Both the Hadith and Talmud teach religious superiority and virtual enslavement of the rest of the world. In the ME Muslims are told the Hadith is equal to the Quran. This is why most ME Muslims are at least a little bigoted. But the bigotry in the Hadith is not supported by the Quran.

5. There is even one translation done by a Christian who didn't believe Mohammed was a prophet. The translation is not the greatest but the historical notes are amazing.

Conclusions

I have read 4 different translations, cover to cover. I have compared many verses online to other translations as well. I have even compared many verses by looking at word for word translations. The 2 interpretations below seem to have the least amount of words added, and very little conceptual additions. Basically these are the only versions I have come across not directly influenced by Hadith.

If you can PM the interpretation you have at home I will look online. Even if I haven't read it there are a few verses that I can check that will quickly let me answer what bias I believe is present.

My Favorite Translations

There are a couple of points I disagree with but I would say this is about as good a translation as one can find, the closest to a word for word.
www.holybooks.com...

This is my second favorite. Also a good attempt at word for word. This would be good for comparison and they are both free downloads.
www.free-minds.org...

I think the thing we should all remember... "Islam" is just a word, an idea. In fact, it's many ideas, which have been put together in books. Same goes for any religion. Around these ideas, people have built religious systems, which are just groups of people who share these 'stories' or 'ideas'. Some people use the stories to control people for their own agenda (whatever that may be).
So what is it, when people say they fear "the Islam"? Because "the Islam" and the people who follow it are so different in their interpretation of the stories.
I think we should check out the root of the problem, and understand why it is there are people who are hostile. I believe it's mostly out of fear. And so we've completed the circle.

a reply to: Gryphon66

~looks around at all the posts & stars towards BP & those that agree w/ him/her~

Wow, I guess you two really showed them! lmbo.

a reply to: Sremmos80

Wow, while that is effed up, they're not really Christians. They're a cult and they're violent and they're not doing anything Christian at all and they seem to be breaking basically all of the Commandments--and aren't doing anything that Jesus would have done. I don't think that lumping in Christians with these terrorist nuts is legit. They're a political group, not really a religious one--one more reason why separation of church & state is important.

Close the thread. The op's question was answered over and over, poncho and blackproject being two recent examples. Yes it exists. Move on. I used to come here for fun. Christ this site is a haven for racists, bigots and people who are dangers to the rest of us, literally. You can find examples in a simple Google search of at leat one notorious tragedy. It's depressing to see this site become a microcosm of the worst examples of humanity.

a reply to: redrumten
when someone does not have the same opinion as you they have to be silenced? I thought there was something like freedom of speech. Neither did i hear anyone in this thread abusing that freedom by saying something like all muslims should be killed, so you can relax.
This is exactly why right wing extremism is growing, because people with fears are silenced and ignored!

perhaps you live all cosy without problems large groups of muslims, and yes, they are muslims, cause. When they do it, it is fair to say it. Or are you wise enough to dispute govermental statistics? Is your country being overrun by immigrants? Here in Europe we have infrastructure not working properly anymore because of the load of 'refugees', taxes being raised, funds diverted. And ofcourse, more violence and rape. Last week a town of 140 got 1400 new inhabitants. This is a crisis. Many of the newcomers harbour fanatical islamic views. This is not only our problem, this is also a problem of the muslim community, as their sons and daughters are being radicalised and they all face the backlash their actions cause.

just a reminder. the word ISLAM is derived from the arabic SALEMA wich can be translated as SUBMISSION. Therefore: Islamophobia means fear of submission.

originally posted by: redrumten
Close the thread. The op's question was answered over and over, poncho and blackproject being two recent examples. Yes it exists. Move on. I used to come here for fun. Christ this site is a haven for racists, bigots and people who are dangers to the rest of us, literally. You can find examples in a simple Google search of at leat one notorious tragedy. It's depressing to see this site become a microcosm of the worst examples of humanity.

bigot -noun - a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

Ironic.

originally posted by: redrumten
Close the thread. The op's question was answered over and over, poncho and blackproject being two recent examples. Yes it exists. Move on. I used to come here for fun. Christ this site is a haven for racists, bigots and people who are dangers to the rest of us, literally. You can find examples in a simple Google search of at leat one notorious tragedy. It's depressing to see this site become a microcosm of the worst examples of humanity.

Laughing so hard I'm crying. Don't even have the energy to begin to go over how wrong this post was. Very funny if people didn't actually think like this.

a reply to: DeusImperator

What does bombing people in the Middle east has to do with (sometimes native borne) extremist. I think you are going off topic m8.

You didint just ask me what terrorism against the west has to do with the wrest invading and subjugating whole ME countries? Did you?

a reply to: rukia

Yes that is the point, need to do the same with Islam and isis.

a reply to: Kapusta

I think you need to read more news, especially news out of Sweden, Denmark, news from Iran, especially the Imams quotes, Churches being burnt down, closed in Muslim countries, Coptic Egyptians being murdered, Hamas repeatedly saying it wants to destroy Israel, honour killings nearly every week, the list is endless...

a reply to: Bluntone22

The first problem for me with the idea of Islamophobia is that it is used as if it is in the category with racism. Racism goes is when you decide that any member of race X is bad or more likely to be bad (in some category). These people from race X might be rich or poor, conservative or liberal, whatever, they get lumped because of race.

However if you are a Muslim, you have a belief set. If I think that belief set is a problem and I thus have concerns about people with that belief set, I am not like a racist. Unless it is like being racist to, say, have concerns about Nazis, another group with a specific belief set.

If you believe certain things, you are more likely to do certian things and react in certain ways. There is absolutely nothing parallel to racism in having concerns about people with belief systems, since those specific beliefs must necessarily be part of who they are.

I have concerns about Muslims. As it happens I have concerns about Neocons also. If I get pissed off at neocons or think they are more likely to cause problems than other people - which I do believe - I am not something like a racist. I might be wrong. I might be drawing wrong conclusions about what neocons get up to and what this causes. I might even have the wrong values, perhaps I should think raping the earth, panopticon societies, colonialism and so on are good things. But even if I am wrong, I am not like a racist.

But somehow Islamophobia is treated like racism even by groups, like the left, who happily judge other people based on their political category.

Of course concerns about Islam intersect with racism. Tehre are people who hate what they are not familiar with or who hate arabs and conflate this with Islam. I understand this is not some simple issue.

But amazingly Muslims are one of the few groups of people batchd by their belief system whom it is taboo to be concerned about.

a reply to: Hjarngympa

This is an argument you can't win because most people, especially those that feel that Muslims vs Islam is being attacked, are not going to let their guard down long enough to listen to what your concerns are.

The truth is very simple but it causes a lot of problems for some people. People that dislike Islam, cannot be racist. Not because people who embrace Islam come in a variety of races, but because to embrace Islam is a choice.

You can't choose your race. You are whatever race you were lucky enough to be born into. Islam you choose; or not.

As far as the word Islamophobia is concerned, I think they have made a serious mistake by accusing anyone and everyone that expresses a concern about what is going on with the asylum seekers, of being Islamophobic, and dismissing their concerns as nonsensical and invalid, has seriously back fired.

I will admit that before the recent mass influx of asylum seekers and the numerous reports of complications and conflicts, I fought vehemently against being called or thought of as Islamophobic, racist or bigoted. I finally realized, it didn't matter what I said or what I did. If it fits someone's agenda, or if they need a platform or a bandstand to push their agenda, they would use and twist everything to their advantage.

So now you have a bunch of people like me that don't give a damn about what you think about me or what you call me, and I don't care what flavor Kool-aide you are drinking, you are not going to be able to piss on my head and tell me it is raining.

a reply to: Kapusta

You sound pretty reasonable, and this is not intended to
be a flame of any kind.

I only bring this up because
the term Islamophobia has been used on me, and I didn't
think I was being extremist, nor do I think it's my responsibility to
study THEIR religion. I myself am not religious at all.

Frankly, I think The Quran is full of evil, as I also feel the same
way about The Bible (particularly the old testament), and The
Talmud. (and yes, I've read them)

So, if people want to call me an Islamaphobe, or a Christianphobe,
or anti-Semite, so be it, not only do I think the books those
religions are based on are evil, but I think this generally of all religions.

Again, I'm not trying to insult you-- it's just how I feel about religion and
particularly the three desert religions.

I'm not saying you are evil, I have friends that are both Jewish, Christian,
and Muslim, and I have no problem with people, in spite of their religious
beliefs, but I'm getting tired of being called an anti-Semite for criticizing
Israel or their religion, an anti-Christ for criticizing Christianity, and now an
Islamaphobe for questioning the beliefs of Muslim's.

Like I said, again, I know Muslims that are very nice people, and I'm sure
you are one of them, but I wanted to respond to this whole "Islamaphobe" thing.



Rebel 5

a reply to: intrptr

and i said hundreds of dutch born muslim fighting with islamic state. They have not been bombed. Whats your excuse. Lets zoom out. There are THOUSANDS of european borne muslims fighting with radical groups. And even before western interventions islam has been violent. As a military organisational idea a very succesfull construct, but were in the 21th century now. We try to avoid human death if possible. As ayaan hirsi ali once wrote (ex muslin): ''when faced with critism muslims blame other factors instead of focussing on internal factors.'' What about the abuse of womens right in the islamic world... western bombs to blame? The us only threw oil on a fire that was allready burning.

I'll make this simple. It is called Islamophobic to dislike Islam or Muslims. Homophobic to dislike gays. Racist to dislike blacks, etc.

What is it called if you dislike white Americans? Is there a word for it and if not...why? Maybe because these phobias are used against white Americans by other groups? Hell...Holder (a black man by the way) said that it isn't a hate crime to attack a white person for simply being white. Why? White people aren't a protected group under the law. And you know what...he is factually correct.

Call someone a "white devil" and kill them...it isn't a hate crime. See the problem?

a reply to: DeusImperator

western bombs to blame? The us only threw oil on a fire that was already burning

Thats your crisis? Women are systemically abused the world over. So bombs are justified then?

Some excuse to justify waging endless aggressive war. I think its because the west found out how forgiving Islam is.

Look! We can invade, destroy and kill them all, take their resources and they don't even fight back!

Religiophobia is a thing: a prejudicial aversion towards those retarded by fantastical fairy tales which render the use of the brain, including the faculties of logic and reason, redundant.

A good thing, at that.

a reply to: TheInhumanCentipede

But hold that thought a second. I'm making an assumption that you are likely a liberal or at least left-leaning. Is that correct? If so...why do so many of your political belief stand up for the rights of "everyone" but only when everyone includes Muslims, blacks, illegals, gays, poor, etc. and then turn your back on white America, "rednecks" and religious people?

And I'm not trying to argue the individual groups and their concerns. I simply don't understand why liberals seem to "stand up for everyone's uniqueness" but then not only turn your backs on other groups, but literally call them names, curse them, act like they are stupid, etc. simply because they have a different opinion or belief system.

How can you have it both ways that everyone is equal and deserves respect, acceptance and fairness...and then in the next breath call the religious retarded, call their belief in a God a fairy tale and reference their brain as illogical? You can't be both...you can't say you represent fairness and tolerance and then verbally rape, insult and assault an entire group of people. And a large group at that.

Now I will say something that IS meant as a bit mean...but the truth. Your example, and the example of your group appears to make you a hypocrite. If I'm wrong...please explain how.

How can you have it both ways that everyone is equal and deserves respect, acceptance and fairness...and then in the next breath call the religious retarded, call their belief in a God a fairy tale and reference their brain as illogical? You can't be both...you can't say you represent fairness and tolerance and then verbally rape, insult and assault an entire group of people. And a large group at that.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

There is an old saying the old folk used to say, before I became an old folk; "If it is not broke, don't fix it."

I grew up in a tiny town mixed up with every kind of person you could imagine back then. We had uniqueness coming out of our ears. We had more religions and churches than we had schools or gas stations, yet some how we all managed to get along just fine. There was the occasional skirmish and even fist to cuffs, but it passed and time went on.

The glue that held us together was poverty (need) and an agreement to live and let live. First it was truly bad form to stick you nose into your neighbors business unless it affected you, or was criminal, or truly immoral. Second you neighbor may question why you did something strange or odd, but as long as it wasn't criminal or truly immoral, they may have called you an odd duck, and that would be the end of it.

Move to today. We have allowed ourselves to believe all the bull-crap we have been taught and conditioned to believe. We think we are special and for some reason we have to make others accept that fact, and to defer to our way of doing things, and our way of thinking. In other words we have become a planet were everybody is special, so none of us are. As it should be.

Now if we could all agree to accept each other for the unique person they are, and agree to live and let live; we may have a chance. Otherwise, it is just a matter of time before there will be no one left to fight and nothing left to fight for.