Nationalised health care

a reply to: TrueBrit

I know exactly where you are coming from regarding this topic as I was a poor kid on welfare here in the US and had to deal with being bullied because of this.

Fortunately I was a welfare kid and got my medical and dental and such for free or little cost because my mother was a single parent.

Right now I am getting over MRSA which I acquired from someone who was in the hospital recently, I am getting better only because I am a disabled veteran and get medical care free of charge at the VA or I would have possibly lost a limb or died from septicemia as a result of not being able to afford medical care to treat the infection.

... Fairly Recent news stories in the media about poor conditions at VA hospitals prove the insurance companies are after that market share by the way...

I have come to the conclusion that the reason the american people are so against socialized medicine is that they are predominantly the same kind of pond scum that their government is made up of, as their representatives are drawn from the layer that floats on the top of most any other body of polluted water.

It isn't a very far stretch before something like the "Final Solution" which the Nazis came up with in WW2 regarding the jews and other people who led "Lives not Worth Living" comes into play....

Of course they won't call it that....

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
a reply to: TrueBrit

I know exactly where you are coming from regarding this topic as I was a poor kid on welfare here in the US and had to deal with being bullied because of this.

Fortunately I was a welfare kid and got my medical and dental and such for free or little cost because my mother was a single parent.

Right now I am getting over MRSA which I acquired from someone who was in the hospital recently, I am getting better only because I am a disabled veteran and get medical care free of charge at the VA or I would have possibly lost a limb or died from septicemia as a result of not being able to afford medical care to treat the infection.

... Fairly Recent news stories in the media about poor conditions at VA hospitals prove the insurance companies are after that market share by the way...

I have come to the conclusion that the reason the american people are so against socialized medicine is that they are predominantly the same kind of pond scum that their government is made up of, as their representatives are drawn from the layer that floats on the top of most any other body of polluted water.

It isn't a very far stretch before something like the "Final Solution" which the Nazis came up with in WW2 regarding the jews and other people who led "Lives not Worth Living" comes into play....

Of course they won't call it that....

Maybe people against are pond scum. Maybe they are dealing with paying their own costs and don't feel it's right to pay for others. Or maybe they have the two required brain cells to understand changing who pays without dealing with cost isn't solving anything. Who knows why each person against it, is against it.

Could also be they are ok with paying but with serious rules in place. If you over eat, drink excessively, do excessive drugs, risky unprotected sex and so on. If you fit that category and crap all over your own physical health why should anyone else care or pay for your poor choices? Lots of reasons but the big one is a failure to deal with costs.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

What would one suggest?, capital controls maybe?.

I do believe TPTB and business would have a real problem with that.

Never minding that business and government are some of biggest receivers of "welfare" in the entire economy.

As far as who pays, if you make an insurance claim, who pays for the cost above and beyond your deductible?.

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
a reply to: Reallyfolks

What would one suggest?, capital controls maybe?.

I do believe TPTB and business would have a real problem with that.

Never minding that business and government are some of biggest receivers of "welfare" in the entire economy.

As far as who pays, if you make an insurance claim, who pays for the cost above and beyond your deductible?.

Ala carte insurance? Women shouldn't have to have bundled insurance for men's related health and vice versa. Can't have kids? Do you need a package including child birth? Change pharmaceutical grants to loans. Went to hospital for stitches twice. Both times the Dr opens this pack with like 25 items to pull three and toss the rest. Guess they have no option to buy individual items a lot of times and must buy wasteful kits. Why? Cross state insurance? I'm sure there are many great things that can be done but just a few I see.

a reply to: SprocketUK

The truth of the matter is that in America, healthcare is a commondity. It has been morphed into this beast over a long period of time.

I tried to warn as many people as I could about what was coming. I even wrote a thread about it here on ATS Back in September 2013: www.abovetopsecret.com...

America doesn’t have anything even close to National or Universal Health Care. What we have is a slick scheme built for the collection of our dollars, into the hands of a useless insurance scheme.

Think about it. What does insurance really do for you? They lock you into a ridiculously expensive monthly contract for a service you cannot use without their permission. They use a minimum wage worker to review your claim, and a computer algorithm to determine if they will give the physician permission to provide you with care. They will not start to pay for your care until you have reached an out of pocket deductible that could rank even with a starter home mortgage cost. After you have used up all your savings on the deductible, they will still only pay 75% to 80% percent of that $1,600.00 a day hospital bed, which does not include, meals, supplies, labs, diagnostics, doctor or specialist fees, and the list goes on.

One insurance covered hospitalization could make a family homeless in a heartbeat. So tell me again what you are paying those astronomical fees for, and exactly what does the insurance company do for you?

a reply to: SprocketUK

I've worked and paid tax all my life, yet received health care of top notch quality, whenever I have needed it. I can't understand why anyone would not want to have the same availabilty.

Obamcare is NOT Nationalised healthcare its a method to FORCE people to buy ridiculously priced Health Insurance from private Oligopolies companies raking in billions per year.

It was not designed to cover the peoples health needs it was designed to put money on the Healthcare Oligopolies pocket. In business once something becomes mandatory in a Oligopoly industry the prices go up and the profits go up.

Earnings In Billions after Obamacare:

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

The business model you present in your post is pretty much the same for any business in the US.

It's all a great big money harvesting scheme where the biggest collectors of the welfare aspect of business, blame the weakest who collect the least of the welfare.

It's like the wild west...

I saw it when I was a kid before I knew how to coherently explain what it was that I saw.

I always knew that I never had any chance for any real success or happiness in the future.

Maybe that's why the sale of anti-depressants is such a giant sector of this economy.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

I will go out on a limb here and say the following.

I am glad that I do not live in a nation full of grasping, greedy savages, who fail to understand that taxation should be paying for healthcare provision for all. I believe that every other system, other than taxation funded, free at point of service healthcare, without the involvement of insurance companies except by individuals choice, is flawed beyond belief, and serves corporate interests rather than serving the needs of everyone, equally.

I believe that having ANY problem with taxation based healthcare, marks one out as a very poor example of a human being, who would rather see the downtrodden crushed by debt or dead, than see them flourish and maintain decent standards of health, which ought to be a basic human right in the developed world. Poor people, by the standards of those who protest against NHS like institutions, do not deserve to live, or live free of treatable diseases, free of curable pain, with decent protection against simple flu, or heart disease, or lung cancer. Only the rich may access these things without bankrupting themselves.

I have news for anyone who opposes nationalised healthcare. You should not worry about going bankrupt, because morally speaking, you are all well past that point.

a reply to: interupt42

Exactly!

Even the blind and the death can see and hear this clearly, and resoundingly.

I am just waiting for all the people to come to their sense and everyone, yes, every one;ot drop every insurance plan they have. When no one is paying, the doctors and the hospitals will come up with a better plan.

It make more sense to pay a physician's group or a hospital plan $800.00 to $1200.00 a month than a insurance company, that is not providing you with one damn thing but an empty pocket, a lot of red tape, paperwork and grief.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I am glad that I do not live in a nation full of grasping, greedy savages, who fail to understand that taxation should be paying for healthcare provision for all. I believe that every other system, other than taxation funded, free at point of service healthcare, without the involvement of insurance companies except by individuals choice, is flawed beyond belief, and serves corporate interests rather than serving the needs of everyone, equally.

I understand what you are saying, but you make one huge mistake.

It is not the citizens of this country that are the grasping, greedy savages, and unfortunately the government greedy savages are well aware that taxation should be paying for healthcare provision for all. What should be, rarely is.

The citizens of this country are the victims of not just a greedy, savage, corrupt government, they seem to be suffering some variant form of Stockholm Syndrome.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Reallyfolks

I will go out on a limb here and say the following.

I am glad that I do not live in a nation full of grasping, greedy savages, who fail to understand that taxation should be paying for healthcare provision for all. I believe that every other system, other than taxation funded, free at point of service healthcare, without the involvement of insurance companies except by individuals choice, is flawed beyond belief, and serves corporate interests rather than serving the needs of everyone, equally.

I believe that having ANY problem with taxation based healthcare, marks one out as a very poor example of a human being, who would rather see the downtrodden crushed by debt or dead, than see them flourish and maintain decent standards of health, which ought to be a basic human right in the developed world. Poor people, by the standards of those who protest against NHS like institutions, do not deserve to live, or live free of treatable diseases, free of curable pain, with decent protection against simple flu, or heart disease, or lung cancer. Only the rich may access these things without bankrupting themselves.

I have news for anyone who opposes nationalised healthcare. You should not worry about going bankrupt, because morally speaking, you are all well past that point.

And those who want others to pay their bills are no better than those who don't want to pay others bills. I find the thought process that wanting other people's money is right and just, wanting to keep your own is greedy and worthy of death. I find it even funnier that many people footing the tax bills are not wealthy rather middle class, yet if you want them to pay your bills they are as wrong and evil as the 1%. What is it about people they feel that's it's ok to force others to pay and refusal to do so is wrong? But those demanding others pay are poor and entitled.

And again I may not mind helping a kid not my own out, but you over eat, smoke, drink excessively, unprotected sex and so on. You don't respect or care about your health and my wallet and me definately don't.

In the US we have nationalized Healthcare already, so to speak.

If you're dying, you can go to a hospital, they have to treat you and save you. You have the flu, you can go to the emergency room and eventually they will see you. they have to. Who pays for his care? Federal Government subsidizes/pays hospitals for this care. They Universally do this all over the US, this healthcare.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

If the only people in America who want taxation funded healthcare are poor folks, then that means that not just the top one percent of the country, but those in the top forty percent, are morally defunct. You cannot have it two ways. A persons ability to keep their wallet full, will never be as important as keeping people's hearts beating, and ensuring that the vulnerable and sick are defended and healed. Failure to understand that is not a virtue. It is a disease of the soul.

I always knew that I never had any chance for any real success or happiness in the future.

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

You surely don't if you continue to follow the yellow brick road. There is more than one way to the magical land of OZ, if Oz is where you want to go.

Traveling the untraveled path to your future may indeed be dangerous, rough and tumble, but it can also be filled with adventure and excitement. You may learn many things previously unknown, and befriend many that you may be able to help and they you, along the way. You may even decide that Oz is not what you think it is, and decide not to go.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Reallyfolks

If the only people in America who want taxation funded healthcare are poor folks, then that means that not just the top one percent of the country, but those in the top forty percent, are morally defunct. You cannot have it two ways. A persons ability to keep their wallet full, will never be as important as keeping people's hearts beating, and ensuring that the vulnerable and sick are defended and healed. Failure to understand that is not a virtue. It is a disease of the soul.

No more so than demanding others pay your bills. But you obviously see no problem with that. Sad

Diagnosed with recurrent brain tumour in Sep 2002
Surgery, radiotherapy
Chemotherapy
Support group 10 weeks counselling
2007 tumour returns as a grade 4 given prognosis 18 months
More surgery
More chemo
Hormone therapy every 4 months
Meditation and mindfulness group for 8 weeks regular check ups with neuro phsyciatrist

2012 tumour returns
1st ever
Awake craniotomy for Oxford university hospitals foundation
2014 inter cranial brain haemorrhage. 5. Months in hospital and rehab centre learning to wAlk again can go back whenever I organise it.
December 2014 brain tumour comes back
2015 4th brain surgery and more chemotherapy
2015 chemo failed, tumour back, have to decide whether more surgery with potential risks or have radiotherapy again. Monthly appointments, MRI when ever I need
Neurologist appointments
Regular contact with brain tumour nurses

Lots of prescription.

We have to be careful then.

Because what we have in the US, is this.

You get injured or sick and can't afford to pay for your healthcare or you get the bare minimum to keep you alive. ONly the wealthy can afford healthcare.

Is that the society we really want?

And let's not even talk about Obama Care because Millions of people in the US are in this situation right now and were in it well before Obama took office.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

Foolish.

Under such a system, everyone's efforts go toward paying everyone's bills.

In my lifetime I have experienced house calls at less than $30, a time when no insurance was needed, the push to get everyone on insurance, the HMO-PPO days of employer provided low/no copay insurance, the resulting flood of patients, the resulting outrageous cost increases, the HMO-PPO system limits via copay and procedure/coverage limits, government intervention via ACA and unbridled greed throughout the entire industry/business.

Pure greed is the problem.

Having the government/taxpayer cover costs in the current system with its current protective laws that allow immunity from laws that any other business has to comply with is feeding further greed and does nothing to stop the outrage of severely inflated costs.

Sure it can be said if a single payer system was put into place the government would dictate costs, however in practice the disruption in the current greedy system would be problematic with service disruptions and shortages due the current business model.

Remove all the special protections and make this industry compliant with price fixing, price collusion, monopoly and other consumer protection laws such as fair estimates then lets talk about single payer.

As it is we would just trade rape of the consumer for rape of the taxpayer.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Foolish.

Under such a system, everyone's efforts go toward paying everyone's bills.

That's why we don't have that system...Maybe