Richard Dawkins & Smash of Dinosaur / Human Footprints

originally posted by: jon1

I could tell you things that have happened in my life and have witnesses to it but would you believe me..no, so what is the point of telling you..

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. To those who have not experienced it, it will sound ridiculous. This is explained in Plato's cave. Regardless, I am interested in hearing your experiences, direct message me if you have the time, no need to have it blindly ridiculed by the others.

a reply to: SuperFrog

I believe because i know. Not on blind faith but because i have used many gifts of the holy spirit...
You would not understand that and i don't blame you...you have to be there to get the tee shirt..
God cannot be explained in the physical world because we are dealing with the supernatural world here.
It is such a shame but that is how it is..

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: jon1

I could tell you things that have happened in my life and have witnesses to it but would you believe me..no, so what is the point of telling you..

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. To those who have not experienced it, it will sound ridiculous. This is explained in Plato's cave. Regardless, I am interested in hearing your experiences, direct message me if you have the time, no need to have it blindly ridiculed by the others.

It is getting late here but i will be back tomorrow and try to explain a few things..
cheers

originally posted by: jon1
a reply to: SuperFrog

I believe because i know. Not on blind faith but because i have used many gifts of the holy spirit...
You would not understand that and i don't blame you...you have to be there to get the tee shirt..
God cannot be explained in the physical world because we are dealing with the supernatural world here.
It is such a shame but that is how it is..

So you are blaming God for his shortfall of not making sure all humans are capable to know him? Interesting...

Of course you can't explain something that does not exist... we know...

originally posted by: SuperFrog


So you are blaming God for his shortfall of not making sure all humans are capable to know him? Interesting...

Hypothetical question for you... If God did exist why would your insolence warrant a visitation?

a reply to: SuperFrog

OH boy....God makes it so easy for us to know him..it is not rocket science..
If you truly want him in your life you only have to ask...It's that simple..
The problem is, could you live your life anywhere near how he wants you to live it..
I can't but i am willing to to have a go...

originally posted by: jon1
a reply to: SuperFrog

OH boy....God makes it so easy for us to know him..it is not rocket science..
If you truly want him in your life you only have to ask...It's that simple..
The problem is, could you live your life anywhere near how he wants you to live it..
I can't but i am willing to to have a go...

That is not problem, I AM SURE I live my life the way someone who gave me 'free will' wanted me to live... of course, if God existed...

You see, 'the real problem' is that you pretend to know what your imaginary friend wants...

Sure, god is not rocket science, but rocket science is how we know little angry man up in the sky really is not there where religion claimed he is for past few thousands of years...

a reply to: Agree2Disagree

My apologies, when I talk about "Belief", I'm talking about the irrational side or something that is not based on facts or evidence. If we form an hypothesis based on observation, facts, and evidence then we are talking about "conjecture".

All too often on ATS people support or reject something because it goes against or reinforces their beliefs(irrational).

a reply to: SuperFrog

It's no use carrying on this conversation because the subject has been done to death on ATS..
Please look up the gifts of the spirit in the bible and that is where i am coming from..

Have a good day friend..

originally posted by: jon1
a reply to: SuperFrog

It's no use carrying on this conversation because the subject has been done to death on ATS..
Please look up the gifts of the spirit in the bible and that is where i am coming from..

Have a good day friend..

Searched, found nothing outside of bible...

Why is it so hard to provide simple evidence for single miracle in order to persuade people that religion is true? Remember, you said there are many... yet unable to prove single?!

Sure, we know why, but question is do you know why...

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: SuperFrog


So you are blaming God for his shortfall of not making sure all humans are capable to know him? Interesting...

Hypothetical question for you... If God did exist why would your insolence warrant a visitation?

A demonstration. God does love a good demonstration right? One day out of every week, a whole month out of the year, billions of autobiographies, trillions (accumulatively) of people ready to die or kill to prove their loyalty, an entire effing country whose purpose is to serve as an authority on his behalf. A guy like that likes to make a point. Otherwise, what's the point?

If anything, I'm betting he would be afraid of us. Like a bear trap.

originally posted by: jon1
a reply to: SuperFrog

OH boy....God makes it so easy for us to know him..it is not rocket science..
If you truly want him in your life you only have to ask...It's that simple..
The problem is, could you live your life anywhere near how he wants you to live it..
I can't but i am willing to to have a go...

Yes it's so easy, right? It's easy to have faith because it doesn't require any critical thinking, just blind acceptance with no scrutiny. I was a practicing faithful Christian for more than half my life and didn't hear so much as a peep from god, despite asking numerous times and following the teachings of Jesus to a T.

It's easy to say, "Lightning and thunder are caused by Zeus being angry". It's harder to research lightning and actually find out how it works and what causes it via study and experimentation. Faith is always the easy road. The problem is that faith, by definition, is a guess.

Also having strong faith is not the same as KNOWING something. You do not KNOW that your faith is true. At first I thought you believed the universe = god, but now it sounds more along the lines of Mormanism, where you ask for signs. The problem is that when you actively look for signs, you will find them, whether they are meaningful or you are just guessing. It's called coincidence and confirmation bias just like search the bible for bible codes.

It's nice to think that we may have been created in a god's image, but again you have to throw scrutiny and logic out the door, so all you are left with is the emotional connection to a viewpoint. Sure it sounds great and it is comforting to folks, but claiming that somebody absolutely knows this for a fact is a bit silly. Nobody knows for sure.

originally posted by: Barcs

I was a practicing faithful Christian for more than half my life and didn't hear so much as a peep from god, despite asking numerous times and following the teachings of Jesus to a T.

You sold everything you had, gave it to the poor, and went out on a leap of faith knowing that God would provide? I do not know of any true, fully adherent Christians.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

A demonstration. God does love a good demonstration right?

In mostly all belief systems, God is within, and our aberrant behavior (sin, karma, etc) removes this inherent connection. Look at how unnatural we have become... If God is natural then it is no wonder so many are blind to the Presence.

a reply to: cooperton

I always fail to understand why would God be score keeper?!

What is the point and why would he need this nuisances in his existence?!

It just does not make any sense...


@ jon1

Just reminder, I am still waiting to see your evidence... Love old Sagan's quote...

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Carl Sagan

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: Agree2Disagree

Most experiments in science are peer reviewed and published. They are made public knowledge so that anybody with the means can try to duplicate the experiments for themselves. This is why we trust scientists. The work is out there for anybody else to scrutinize and review. It isn't just blind faith in man. It's verified duplicated work done by tons of scientists to make sure the findings are correct. Before peer review existed, you would have a point, but it exists, so if somebody has doubts they can double check.

Also our society is built on trusting experts. Would it not make sense to bring your computer to a computer repair technician to fix it? Would you not go to the car mechanic to repair your car? Or would that be blind faith that they know what they are doing, despite being trained and having tons of experience? Because of this, I trust scientists with science. If you wish to distrust folks that have been trained in the fields and methods they research, then that's your own prerogative, but suggesting it requires faith to believe science is counter productive.

I guess I'll never have blind faith in an architect or mechanical engineer again. We can't keep trusting experts. It's just like trusting religion!

I believe you misunderstand my point friend. I'm not saying we have blind faith in man. I know some men and women in their respective professional fields have proven themselves to be trustworthy. I'm simply saying that some men and women in their respective professional fields have proven themselves to be UNTRUSTWORTHY.

Have you ever heard the horror stories of someone taking their motor vehicle to a mechanic who then apparently sabotages their vehicle so that they have to come back a few months down the road? I've been there and done that...it really takes a toll on a persons faith in mankind. The same can be said for scientists.

You never know who has an agenda or why....so you have to be careful who you trust. It's like when creationists post information from a creationist website....what's the first thing you say? "Of course that information backs your statement up, it's from a bogus creationist website who twist the truth to fit their spaghetti monster agenda..." Do you really think creationists are the only ones that do that?

A2D

Are we done yet with having fun about the religious?

Fine, then lets keep calm and shut up. I start.

originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: jon1
a reply to: SuperFrog

It's no use carrying on this conversation because the subject has been done to death on ATS..
Please look up the gifts of the spirit in the bible and that is where i am coming from..

Have a good day friend..

Searched, found nothing outside of bible...

Why is it so hard to provide simple evidence for single miracle in order to persuade people that religion is true? Remember, you said there are many... yet unable to prove single?!

Sure, we know why, but question is do you know why...

You will not find fish in the desert....

When was the last time that you went to church??
When was the last time that you went to church that was holding a healing ministry??
How many times have you heard on the news, in the papers or on the internet of people claiming miracles..
How many times have you said to yourself that it was just a coincidence or that they were deluded ?

If you research the subject you will find what you are looking for but you will not believe a word of it.
Need i say more..
Cheers

Type healing miracles in Google..

originally posted by: jon1
You will not find fish in the desert....

When was the last time that you went to church??

Never, I am an atheist from birth. Born into atheist family...

originally posted by: jon1
When was the last time that you went to church that was holding a healing ministry??

Answer would be never as well... do such a thing exist? Is this what was explained by Tim Minchen in song - Thank you God??

originally posted by: jon1
How many times have you heard on the news, in the papers or on the internet of people claiming miracles..

Claiming - too many to mention - confirmed and observed miracles - never. That stuff works just in fairy tales...

How many times have you said to yourself that it was just a coincidence or that they were deluded ?

originally posted by: jon1
If you research the subject you will find what you are looking for but you will not believe a word of it.
Need i say more..
Cheers

Yes, I don't believe red riding hood was saved by hunter after bad wolf ate her... would be miracle if it happened, but nop... just fairy story that just because was invented bit late, did not make it into bible...

Amazing Randi offered million dollars to someone show miracle or anything paranormal... guess how many were able to do it...

a reply to: SuperFrog

So what you are saying is that you have never been to where these things happen, never done any real research won't believe what others say yet You deny that there is any chance that maybe there is a god...
By the way, Jesus would not heal if he was being put to the test..That fact is in the bible..

Healing is just part of a spirit filled christians life...No photo's, no videos and no glory to us....

originally posted by: jon1
a reply to: SuperFrog

So what you are saying is that you have never been to where these things happen, never done any real research won't believe what others say yet You deny that there is any chance that maybe there is a god...
By the way, Jesus would not heal if he was being put to the test..That fact is in the bible..

Healing is just part of a spirit filled christians life...No photo's, no videos and no glory to us....

Are you implying that it is my fault for never being there???

Firstly, outside of bible we don't have single piece of evidence Jesus ever existed, not to mention his healing capability...

Just reminder - extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence, which you failed to present here...