911myths.com : WHY FAKING >73° BANK-ANGLES for a NoC FLYING PLANE.?

a reply to: wildb

I think that proves there was no plane, if it hit five poles and the genset there would be wreckage all over the place, and as we see from the first photos there was nothing to be seen..

Reality was there for all to see and it is history already, that American 77 knocked down those light poles.

And your photo of where the wing hit, were is the wing?

What does that have to do with anything? The wing was shattered. Where is the wing at this impact hole after a B-25 bomber slammed into the Empire State Building?

Photo: B-25 Impact Hole

However, we do have wing flaps from American 77.

Photo: American 77 Wing Flaps at the Pentagon

...did it evaporate after hitting the building, if it hit it should be there, again nothing to be seen..

Tons of wreckage was seen and I have posted a number of photos as well. Here is another example.

Photo: American 77 Wreckage at the Pentagon

Apparently, ATC personnel saw American 77 maneuvering for a strike on the Pentagon. Let's here from one of them and understand that she is upset that a truther took her words out of context in order to deceive the public.

Danielle (O'Brien) Howell: Air Traffic Controller

Mr. Meyssan's book "9/11: The big Lie" states that on September 11, 2001 I and my fellow air traffic controllers at Dulles airport had "no possible doubt" that the plane we saw approaching Washington, DC, which subsequently crashed into the Pentagon, "could not be a commercial airliner, but only a military aircraft" because of its speed and maneuverability.
In the manner Mr. Meyssen took my statements from context and arranged them to support his theory, his conclusions are a blatant disregard for the truth.

Upon initial impression, I considered the target, later confirmed to have been American Airlines flight 77, to possibly have been a military aircraft. In an interview with ABC's 20/20, I stated, "The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane. You don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe." Since that tragic day, I've realised that it was never the intent of the hijacker to safely land American flight 77 anywhere. The usual preparations for a safe landing without our National Airspace System were not a consideration.

Further, my colleagues at Reagan National Air Traffic Control Tower observed, from the windows of the Tower, and American Airlines Boeing 757 disappear below the skyline just prior to the smoke beginning at the Pentagon. Where is this B757 now? There was no situation when a standard airliner would traverse the skies around Washington, D.C. without strict approval by FAA Air Traffic Control.

Where are the crew and passengers from American 77? They have never been accounted for by Mr. Meyssen.
Another valid point against the argument by Meyssen is the path the aircraft flew. Meyssen suggests it was a military missile used to impact the Pentagon. Why would a missile make a 360 degree manuever like this to reduce its altitude. A missile would be on course, at its appropriate altitude, when it approached the target.

The suggestion of the use of a military plane or missile, knowing all available facts, is simply beyond consideration.
If Mr. Meyssen had been interested in the full truth, many sources were available. There would have been no better witnesses than the aviation-trained, eye witnesses of Air Traffic Control. In that he never requested interviews of any of us who were there, his interest obviously lies not in revealing any truth, but in his personal financial gain.

Respectfully,

Danielle (O'Brien) Howell

Mr. Meyssen managed to dupe a number of truthers after he deliberately took her statement out of context.

a reply to: Informer1958

So you do not have the math to debunk LapTop?

We can look here.

Speed = 400 knots:

West Turn Radius = 2834

Bank Angle = arctan(400^2/2834*11.26)

Bank Angle = 79 Degrees*

G Force = 5.2 G**

East Turn Radius = 1639

Bank Angle = arctan(400^2/1639*11.26)

Bank Angle = 83 Degrees*


As I have stated on a number of occasions, a B-757 was incapable of such maneuvering from a NoC flight path in order to cause the documented physical evidence seen inside and outside the Pentagon.

You make the claim that LapTop is wrong, and the fact is, you have failed to prove him wrong.

It has already been done.

a reply to: skyeagle409

Say and post all you want, the fact remains there is no wreckage in the first photos taken, end of story....

a reply to: skyeagle409

You took the height of a B-757 when it stands on its wheels, so from the ground up, being 44 ft 6 in = 13.56 m. (6 in = 0.5 ft). (44 x 0.3048) + (6 x 0.0254) = 13.4112 + 0.1524 = 13.5636 m (44.5 x 0.3048 = ditto)
That vague outline of a plane was however flying in its clean configuration, no wheels out. It didn't taxi, it was flying.

We can look here.

Speed = 400 knots:

West Turn Radius = 2834

Bank Angle = arctan(400^2/2834*11.26)

Bank Angle = 79 Degrees*

G Force = 5.2 G**

East Turn Radius = 1639

Bank Angle = arctan(400^2/1639*11.26)

Bank Angle = 83 Degrees*

LOL. that has nothing to do with LapTop math. You are quoting figures from the OS nothing more.

a reply to: wildb

Apparently, not even LapTop would agree with you. Now, let's take a look at the wing tip from American 77.

Photo 1: American 77 Wreckage

Photo 2: American 77 Wreckage

Photo 3: American 77 Wreckage

Photo 4: American 77 Wreckage

Photo 5: American 77 Wreckage

Photo 6: American 77 Wreckage

Photo 7: American 77 Wreckage

Photo 8: American 77 Wreckage

Photo 9: American 77 Wing Ribs

Airframe Registration Record of American 77

Reserved N-Number
Type Reservation Fee Paid
Mode S Code 52072030
Reserved Date 09/15/2006
Renewal Date 08/27/2014
Purge Date 10/15/2015
Pending Number Change None
Date Change Authorized None
Reserving Party Name GREENWAY JONATHAN JAMES
Street PO BOX 714
City FREDERICK
State MARYLAND
Zip Code 21705-0714
County FREDERICK
Country UNITED STATES
Deregistered Aircraft
Deregistered Aircraft 1 of 1
Aircraft Description
Serial Number 24602 Certificate Issue Date 05/08/1991
Manufacturer Name BOEING Mode S Code (base 8 / oct) 52072030
Model 757-223 Mode S Code (base 16 / hex) A87418
Year Manufacturer 1991 Cancel Date 01/14/2002
Reason for Cancellation Destroyed Export To None
Type Registration Corporation

Aircraft Registration prior to Deregistration
Name WILMINGTON TRUST COMPANY TRUSTEE
Street RODNEY SQ NORTH ATTN CORP TRT ADM
City WILMINGTON
State DELAWARE Zip Code 19890
County NEW CASTLE
Country UNITED STATES

Deregistered Airworthiness
Engine Manufacturer ROLLS-ROYC Classification Standard
Engine Model 54555 Category Transport
A/W Date 05/08/1991

a reply to: Informer1958

That math proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that a B-757 could not have performed a NoC flight path and strike the Pentagon.

Now, how about answering my question. Were the person who'd claimed that no aircraft struck the Pentagon?

a reply to: skyeagle409

Let me say it again, Say and post all you want, the fact remains there is no wreckage in the first photos taken, end of story.... your photos are proof of nothing, if the wreckage was real we would see it in the first photos taken, and we dont.

I am not talking to Labtop, as far as I am concerned the plane did a flyby..

a reply to: wildb

Let me say it again, Say and post all you want, the fact remains there is no wreckage in the first photos taken, end of story....

My list of documented wreckage at the Pentagon proves beyond a shadow of the doubt that you are incorrect. Now, explain to us why American Airlines announced the loss of American 77 at the Pentagon.

I am not talking to Labtop, as far as I am concerned the plane did a flyby..

No one saw American 77 fly over the Pentagon because that story was fabricated and has been used to discredit the Truth Movement.

Did you honestly think that American 77 overflew the Pentagon and landed at Ronald Reagan National Airport under the watchful eyes of radar controllers and ATC tower personnel? Who would pay for the landing fee and ground services? Where would they have parked the aircraft? And, you actually want us to believe that American 77 secretly landed at a busy airport?!

Considering that American Airlines had reported the loss of American 77 at the Pentagon, you should see a problem with your claim by that very fact.

My list of documented wreckage at the Pentagon proves beyond a shadow of the doubt that you are incorrect. Now, explain to us why American Airlines announced the loss of American 77 at the Pentagon.

No it does not, and because thats what they were told..again where is the wreckage in the very first photos, why was the smell of cordite present, why did people say there was no plane, why did the media's first reports say no plane, answer, no plane..

a reply to: wildb

No it does not, and because thats what they were told..again where is the wreckage in the very first photos, why was the smell of cordite present, why did people say there was no plane, why did the media's first reports say no plane, answer, no plane..

Apparently, ALL of the news services reported that American 77 crashed at the Pentagon.

Washington Post

'Extensive Casualties' in Wake of Pentagon Attack

An American Airlines jet carrying 58 passengers crashed into the Pentagon this morning less than an hour after two planes crashed into the World Trade Center, an apparent wave of terrorist attacks that triggered chaos in Washington and New York and dismay across the nation.

The aircraft, Flight 77 from Dulles to Los Angeles, was a Boeing 757 that eyewitnesses said flew low and fast in a direct hit on the west side of the five-sided building.

www.washingtonpost.com...

a reply to: skyeagle409

Apparently, not even LapTop would agree with you. Now, let's take a look at the wing tip from American 77.

Photo 1: American 77 Wreckage

Photo 2: American 77 Wreckage

Photo 3: American 77 Wreckage

Photo 4: American 77 Wreckage

Photo 5: American 77 Wreckage

Photo 6: American 77 Wreckage

Photo 7: American 77 Wreckage

Photo 8: American 77 Wreckage

Photo 9: American 77 Wing Ribs

Bone yard debris. Prove it is not bone yard debris? You cant. Your photos is not evidence, the fact is, you can not prove those alleged airplane debris belong to said plane.

Oh look airplane wreckage, the government said it is from the airplane that crashed at the Pentagon so it must be true, because our government never lies, nether does our media.

Better try harder, because I don't believe in anything our government says anymore.

No one saw American 77 fly over the Pentagon because that story was fabricated and has been used to discredit the Truth Movement.

Ok so this means nothing..

Did you honestly think that American 77 overflew the Pentagon and landed at Ronald Reagan National Airport under the watchful eyes of radar controllers and ATC tower personnel? Who would pay for the landing fee and ground services? Where would they have parked the aircraft? And, you actually want us to believe that American 77 secretly landed at a busy airport?!

I never said it landed anywhere, don't put words in my mouth..

Considering that American Airlines had reported the loss of American 77 at the Pentagon, you should see a problem with your claim by that very fact.

I don't care what they reported, the fact still remains, no wreckage in the first photos, something you don't seem to understand.. if a 757 crashed into the building there would have been video of it, we have not seen that have we..

The video released shows nothing but a smoke trail, since when does a modern jet leave a smoke trail.. and if it did only one? lol

a reply to: skyeagle409

That math proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that a B-757 could not have performed a NoC flight path and strike the Pentagon.

Your math? what math? You never showed any math.

a reply to: skyeagle409

I guess the moderator felt sorry for you and all gave you stars, because I know for a fact no ATS member has.

Something rotten here.

a reply to: Informer1958

Bone yard debris. Prove it is not bone yard debris?

Simple! There was no way to plant tons of debris when hundreds of people are actively cleaning up the area. BTW, no one in their right mind would have used boneyard airplane parts, because in doing so, leaves behind paper trails everywhere. Just thought that you would like to have known that since I have worked in an aircraft boneyard in 1970 and dealt with the folks of a boneyard in Arizona for aircraft parts.

Now, if you want a simple confirmation, call American Airlines and the Boeing Aircraft Co., because they supplied the conversion formulas to for FDR of American 77, which applies ONLY to the airframe of American 77 and no other aircraft.

Or, you can call Rolls Royce, and ask them about the engines that powered the airframe of American 77. because each engine is tracked as well.

Or, you can call Rolls Royce, and ask them about the engines that powered the airframe of American 77. because each engine is tracked as well.

Prove to us they subscribed to this service...

a reply to: Informer1958

That won't work because my math is backed by documented physical evidence and the B-757 technical manual. Verdict: You have no case.

a reply to: wildb

That is very simple to answer. Since Rolls-Royce furnished the engines that powered the airframe of American 77, they also have certain responsibility for those engines as well.

originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: wildb

That is very simple to answer. Since Rolls-Royce furnished the engines that powered the airframe of American 77, they also have certain responsibility for those engines as well.

Thats a non answer, the carrier has to subscribe to the service and not all do , so prove they did..

originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: Informer1958

That won't work because my math is backed by documented physical evidence and the B-757 technical manual. Verdict: You have no case.

What does the technical manual have to do with anything...