You are not better because you lack religion!

a reply to: deadlyhope

It seems to be a trend on ats these days, people believing they are better, smarter, more enlightened because they don't conform to any religion, or perhaps lack belief in general. This does NOT make you better, it makes you different.

Yes, it does make you "better". People who have risen through and beyond religion are "better" off than those who cling to rhetoric and blind faith.

People who say that they're Christian, but don't subscribe to any religion are "better" off than those who identify with Catholic, or Pentecostal or Baptist.

People who devoutly adhere to and live by their own inner moral compass, are "better" off than those who blindly live by lists of rules.

a reply to: deadlyhope

For my part, I am both a man of faith, and a human being, and I take my responsibilities in both these spheres very seriously.

I recognise a higher power than my own in all things, but I also recognise that it is my duty as a human being to offer others the respect they are due, to protect the weak, to enable them to become strong, to oppose tyranny, and to avoid the pitfalls of narcissism. It is not my duty to judge, to intimidate, to ostracise, or to hate based on race, creed, colour, religious differences, or along lines of sexuality and gender.

It is my respect for humanity, and my belief in Jesus which inform my point of view on such matters. However, I also recognise that it is possible to arrive at similar conclusions for different reasons, and so I would never distrust the motivations of someone who behaves as if they have these things on board, no matter from whence they secured such knowledge and understanding. As a result, many of my best friends are incapable of sharing my faith, and I their lack of one. None the less, they are as family to me.

There need not be the division between the faithful, and the faithless, which exists today. I would, however, suggest that it is largely the actions of those who have professed to faith down the ages, who have made it difficult over the last few hundred years, for a person of faith to mix without friction, with those without faith.

I seek in all things to ensure that my reactions to people are not based in what religious or spiritual beliefs they hold, but on their actions toward their fellow human beings, and I have found that path in life to be very fulfilling.

originally posted by: VP740
a reply to: Klassified

I once let some Mormons in, just out of curiosity, and for the fun of messing with their heads. They didn't tell me I had to join them or go to hell. They were actually very friendly and respectful. I got the strong impression that they felt their teachings and community were of great value, and were simply trying to share what they received out of gratitude. While I didn't convert, I wish them and the community they're working to serve well.

By contrast I've heard quite a bit of bigotry from atheists on the net. I hope I'm right in thinking that it's just a vocal minority and they're more polite in person.

Do you feel the world needs to be saved by your particular brand of belief, whatever that may be? So much so, that you go door to door, stick flyers on peoples cars, and stand on street corners preaching the "gospel"?

What I'm saying is, the very need to make clones of every human being on earth that doesn't adhere to our way of being and thinking is arrogant and elitist.

By contrast I've heard quite a bit of bigotry from atheists on the net. I hope I'm right in thinking that it's just a vocal minority and they're more polite in person.

By contrast I've heard quite a bit of bigotry from religious people on the net. I hope I'm right in thinking that it's just a vocal minority and they're more polite in person.

Seriously. Listen to the Christians showing their love and concern for the soul of Richard Dawkins.

a reply to: windword

Was the BTK killer better than mother Teresa? She followed a religion, he just did what was true to his character.

would someone like to address my post on the first page of the thread?

a reply to: deadlyhope

When I was a kid, I was superstitious like most kids usually are.
As I got older, most superstitions faded.
I remember that morning on my walk to work from the subway. I decided to just say F it, I'm not going to skip over these sidewalk cracks anymore.
I knew it was all just BS and I dared the universe to do anything about it. And just like that, I stepped on the crack and never looked back.

It's all in our mind.

Sometimes I will be talking to a religious person and I can see these "road blocks" being thrown up throughout their mind to block them from exploring certain ideas.

It's the same with all superstitions, they cripple your progression and can cause stagnation in your life.

Once you throw away the shackles of superstition and religion and prop yourself up on your own, by your own means, you will become stronger and stronger.

So yes, in a very real sense, those that have thrown away the shackles of fear of the unknown and have embraced the power of the self are "better".

We all have the power to stand on our own without the crutch of religion. There is a way out of "believing" in the fear of always being watched by god, with all your deeds constantly recorded, to be judged later. Come on… please, I see what you're doing here, Father...

It's all in your head. You control your perspective, but if you choose not to, you could be guided into the pasture to grow fat with the other sheep, blissfully un-aware of your impending demise.

a reply to: Klassified

Your characterization of religious people doesn't match my experience with them. Do you not think it's bigoted to reduce all religious people as caricatures based on those you dispise?

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: boymonkey74

I'm not condoning the mentality, actions and such of religious people, blanket statement. I am just pointing out a trend here on ats - the trend does go both ways. I am just taking this side of the argument in this post, since I've ran into several threads lately of people bashing on religion.

Perhaps you are mistaking pointing out hypocrisy with bashing.

like this....

www.kvia.com...

wtf....

What is the point here? You say hypocrisy, I see it as predatory, as in a predator hiding out as a Christian. Predators hide out within everything - politics, religion, schools, workplaces, massage parlors, spiritual retreats, discussion forums, and on and on.

a reply to: Klassified

I like that video.

People are so funny when they aren't intending to be and swearing always sounds good with a posh accent.

Did you notice that not many of the letters had good grammar or correct spelling?

*Stroky beard moment whilst reflecting the conclusions you could draw from the above question*

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: deadlyhope

It seems to be a trend on ats these days, people believing they are better, smarter, more enlightened because they don't conform to any religion, or perhaps lack belief in general. This does NOT make you better, it makes you different.

Yes, it does make you "better". People who have risen through and beyond religion are "better" off than those who cling to rhetoric and blind faith.

People who say that they're Christian, but don't subscribe to any religion are "better" off than those who identify with Catholic, or Pentecostal or Baptist.

People who devoutly adhere to and live by their own inner moral compass, are "better" off than those who blindly live by lists of rules.

I'm fairly certain both ways can and do coexist (exist in mutual tolerance despite different ideologies or interests). You've done a wonderful job illustrating the point of the Op, however, so cheers for that haha!

a reply to: raedar

there's even more to it than you think. however, the most poignant thing to remember is these are not hard-coded.

a reply to: undo

I had the same thing but in the opposite direction. Most of my friends became more deeply involved in their christian faith, and i haven't really heard from them.

Their faith might have been a factor, as everything I said, unintentionally, might have got them the wrong way, and our lives moved in opposite directions, as it can naturally do anyway.

I did think they were judging me a little bit though, especially about my views on sex and relationships.

originally posted by: VP740
a reply to: windword

Was the BTK killer better than mother Teresa? She followed a religion, he just did what was true to his character.

Actually, I think Mother Teresa was also a psychopath that loved to watch suffering. She gathered the dying and suffering to her side and gave them just enough food to keep them from starving to death, but always hungry and unsatiated, just enough medicine to keep them alive but little to nothing to ease their pain.

Mother Theresa sat on a fortune. Banks accounts all over the World, filled with millions upon millions in donations. People were led to believe that they were giving money to alleviate suffering. Instead, the millions of dollars sat unused, like a bottle of water and loaf of bread hanging over the mouths of the starving, being held just out of reach by an insane Nun who wallowed in her feet being kissed by impoverished “Calcutteans”.

Her order, the “missionaries of charity” did more to inflict suffering, pain and poverty on people needlessly, than the actual causes of that suffering and pain and poverty itself. She believed that poverty was a virtue to brought one closer to God. The more a person suffers, whether they ask for that suffering or not, the closer they are to God according to the warped fantasy of Mother Theresa, recently beatified. Primitive equipment was used to treat wounds. No pain killers were used at all. Unsterilised needles equipment was used. People died far sooner than they would have had Mother Theresa actually bothered to recommend actual medical treatment for the poor that she was apparently “helping”.

Her use of fairy tales to promote suffering and pain should be viewed with the contempt it deserves. She believed suffering was good, abortion was wrong, and birth control was evil. In a country like India, villifying birth control is reckless at best. According to a freelance writer, Judith Hayes, Mother Theresa once told a cancer patient in her care that she did not need pain killers, because:

“You are suffering like Christ on the cross, So Jesus must be kissing you.”

How else would someone come to such a positively dangerous position that does nothing but cause unnecessary pain and suffering, if not for belief. Why would a sane human being refuse pain killers to a dying lady in pain, other than a belief in a God. And what a poor argument for an all loving God that would be.

SOURCE

a reply to: undo

I wish I could help you out there. Your experience actually sounds like it should have its own thread. Maybe you should start one so it can be discussed in more detail?

I don't go with the premise at all, and I certainly don't feel any better for not being particularly religious, although I do see Jesus's teachings as something we could all take a leaf from. There may be groups dedicated to being without a God, but I don't see much point in that either, since the reality is you can really only presume God or no God. And, if I did believe in a God, it would not be something to ram down other peoples throats, as so many in most of the religious groups do..yes religious people can be arrogant, and seldom lead by example, which I think is what Jesus intended, but something almost forgotten before the ink dried on the Bible.

originally posted by: undo
when i became a christian, everything went bonkers. my friends who i had been partying buddies with, abandoned me. other christians began to hyper scrutinize and criticize every area of my life, men of all kinds, suddenly became seriously interested in depriving me of my virginity, much moreso than before i became a christian, people, whether religious or not, were emotionally abusive. i remember thinking at the time: WTFlip just happened!?!?! You can't make this # up!

Misery loves company?

I don't know, they sound like miserable energy vampires. Making sure that you are suffering deep inside as much as they are.

originally posted by: undo
when i became a christian, everything went bonkers. my friends who i had been partying buddies with, abandoned me. other christians began to hyper scrutinize and criticize every area of my life, men of all kinds, suddenly became seriously interested in depriving me of my virginity, much moreso than before i became a christian, people, whether religious or not, were emotionally abusive. i remember thinking at the time: WTFlip just happened!?!?! You can't make this # up!

In retrospect of my own life (I'm 42 at present), I feel like there have been people throughout that prey upon things they perceive as innocence, naivety; but then there are the ones that seem to appreciate those things and treat with care.

I had a spiritual experience at a point in my life, and began to feel the entire world changed seemingly overnight. I had to get honest and realize that I was the one that changed, and I was going to have to set myself some new boundaries when it came to others. Some people I outgrew (as in grew differently, not better/worse than) and just moved on naturally (no drama needed).

Best thing I have learned was that boundaries are healthy and we all benefit. If it feels weird, listen to your insides and move on down the road!

originally posted by: deadlyhope
It seems to be a trend on ats these days, people believing they are better, smarter, more enlightened because they don't conform to any religion, or perhaps lack belief in general. This does NOT make you better, it makes you different. Just as being a part of a religion and having certain beliefs doesn't make a person better.

People much more renowned in the world than all of us here have been a part of an organized religion.

People much more renowned in the world than all of us here have either lacked connection to an organized religion, or lacked belief in general.

"Lack"

noun

1. deficiency or absence of something needed, desirable, or customary:
lack of money; lack of skill.

2. something missing or needed:
After he left, they really felt the lack.

The very use of this word in the creation of not only the title of this thread but in the thread itself is the problem that I have with religion. RELIGION is not something desirable, or needed. And if all religion disappeared I wonder if anyone would feel the lack.

originally posted by: VP740
a reply to: Klassified

Your characterization of religious people doesn't match my experience with them. Do you not think it's bigoted to reduce all religious people as caricatures based on those you dispise?

You're missing my point, good sir. I am not characterizing all religious people. But I am characterizing the religions themselves. I'll rephrase the question I asked you earlier.

Do you think everyone who does not believe and live the way you do is doomed for eternity, and needs redemption? Because this is what some religions teach. Christianity being the main culprit in the West. Any religion that teaches such, breeds arrogance, entitlement, privilege, and elitism into its adherents. However sweet they may come across to you, they believe you are condemned by god, because you are not like them, and it is their duty to "save" your soul. They see themselves as being "gods elite" or "chosen ones". Every one else be damned. Literally.

a reply to: VP740

mother theresa actually struggled with her faith greatly in her later years
and pretty much abandoned it entirely before her death

she came to some stark realizations having lived a life helping the most unfortunate

www.reuters.com...

(if you dont like the source find one yourself there are plenty)

(i know i am not responding to the ridiculous question you posed and i will not be)