The Migrant Crisis - Welcome to Karma Europe.

It's amazing how quickly people become Xenophobic and just outright irresponsible when faced with the results of their own actions.

The people of Europe, have supported their politicians long standing traditions ( along with the west + NATO in general) of allowing the destruction of entire countries.

Now those residents need new places to stay, because we left them no other option. Considering they've been hearing for DECADES about how wonderful life is in Europe and the West by comparison, isn't it any wonder they would want to move there?

See how well 'exporting democracy' has gone for you?

And now that your chickens are coming home to roost, now you have a problem as citizens? Oh it wasn't a problem when they were being bombed 4 thousand miles away right? Your pretty European country side wasn't showing the effects, so who cares right?

How about you look square in the mirror and blame yourselves for what occurred there and what's occurring now. If any of you had stood up in greater numbers in real life instead of doing it on FB whenever your politicians sent your sons and daughters to die maybe you would not have this mess.

I was writing the post in another thread, meant as a reply, but decided it needed it's own rant, just for my own sanity.

At the end of the day, you can take any argument against this mass migration you want, and we can argue it back and forth, until we are all blue in the face. The reality is, the policies of European and Western governments have caused this issue.

This is your mess. It's your responsibility to clean it up. You destroyed nations, those people can't be expected to live in caves or in indentured servitude to the extremists who now own their lands.

How about you quit exporting democracy for a bit, and focus on a little self reflection, eat your ego for breakfast and deal with your own problems for once.

I'll say it once and I'll say it again:

You are in this situation either because you agreed with the actions taken by your governments, or you didn't do enough as a group to stop them.

Either way, it's on you.

/Rant

~Tenth

a reply to: tothetenthpower

If you are so happy about it, let them come to live in your house. But do not impose your ideas on your neighbors. Just enjoy the fun yourself. Keep it on your lawn, with your money.

Tenth I here what you are saying

I have written about this recently with my "turning our backs on Islam thread", it is the fault of the west that this is happening, our interventions have only made things worse.

I do disagree with you on this one point:

you are in this situation either because you agreed with the actions taken by your governments, or you didn't do enough as a group to stop them.

I don't think this really applies to many on ATS, going as far back as the war in Iraq I can remember being out on the streets protesting against the war. Most individuals on ATS seem to be against war almost all of the time, could we do a little bit more to make our views known, yeah is guess we could.

The biggest problem as i see it from the point of view of the individuals is not that they have supported western aggression but rather than they have became xenophobes.

originally posted by: deckdel
a reply to: tothetenthpower

If you are so happy about it, let them come to live in your house. But do not impose your ideas on your neighbors. Just enjoy the fun yourself. Keep it on your lawn, with your money.

Gee if only your GOVERNMENT would have done the same thing, this issue would not have occurred at all.

And I have actually sponsored several refugees in my life time. I will sponsor several more so long as I am allowed to by my elected officials.

~Tenth

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

The biggest problem as i see it from the point of view of the individuals is not that they have supported western aggression but rather than they have became xenophobes.

Personally I think one led to the other. Either the support or apathy has created a scenario where people are afraid of either outcome.

And I don't blame people on ATS specifically of course, it's a general rant, but there are many people in this community who think they don't have a dog in this fight, and they most certainly do.

~Tenth

I like how people whine and complain about the immigration in Europe, considering 100 years ago Europeans were doing the same to everyone else...

European diaspora

What goes around comes around?

Oh and Europeans brought their culture to every country, they did not assimilate

a reply to: Indigent

I am not willing to lay the blame on someone based on the sins of their ancestors.

How about we blame the war mongering asshats sitting on the top of the money pyramid.

Blame the real people that are responsible.

There is your target.

I have never wanted war with anyone.

P

originally posted by: Indigent
I like how people whine and complain about the immigration in Europe, considering 100 years ago Europeans were doing the same to everyone else...

European diaspora

What goes around comes around?

Oh and Europeans brought their culture to every country, they did not assimilate

Europe was forced to build up Navies and colonize the coasts of Arab countries because of the threat from Barbary pirates:

The Sack of Baltimore in the 1600's, where all the residents of a single village were kidnapped into slavery:

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

It was also the first time that the USA was forced to invade foreign lands.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

its the fault of governments not the civilians, the majority would not want war. You think people have a voice if its against the governments agenda? i don't think so.

We can protest as much as we want but the government will still go ahead, plan another event to make sure is justifiable to fulfil their sick murderous prophesies Just like now, a lot of people are happy having the migrants. Its humans helping humans.

we are all the same race "the human race" and we all share a very small land "earth" . unfortunately we don't control what everyone else sees and hears.

even though i appreciate your point "karma". Karma is down to the individuals and most individuals did not want any of this.

As far back as I can remember I have always held the belief that we (The US) should stay out of everyone else's country/business. Period. We have a big enough back yard to clean up, we don't need to volunteer to clean up anyone else's IMO.

Our way is not everyone else's way and not everyone else in the world wants to live the way we do. People do not hate us because we are free... People hate us because we do the things we do in other countries.

As for guilt. I am free of that. I have never supported any president that wanted to go to war. I've never supported any war that has been started in my lifetime. The thought of collateral damage alone makes me sick to my stomach and makes me wonder how anyone could be ok with it.

Chickens are indeed coming home to roost and I can be bitter about it because I never supported sending the roosters out in the first place. It's too bad that everyone has to be subjected to said roosters because of the faults/greed of others... But there it is.

I'm certainly not sending out any Thank You cards any time soon.

a reply to: stormcell

Europe was forced to build up Navies and colonize the coasts of Arab countries because of the threat from Barbary pirates:

How prevalent was this actually?

Cause...I don't think that the fear of the Barbarian Pirates was the cause of Europe basically enslaving the entire known world and colonizing 3/4's of it.

~Tenth

a reply to: lSkrewloosel

its the fault of governments not the civilians, the majority would not want war. You think people have a voice if its against the governments agenda? i don't think so.

The people are the government.

If 1 million people in your country decided not to go to work and marched to the capital city demanding change, they would get it.

even though i appreciate your point "karma". Karma is down to the individuals and most individuals did not want any of this.

Nope, Karma can also affect organizations and entire nations. Sorry, but you don't get to play the ' oh well it's just the people I support with my tax dollars and voting that are doing it , not me' argument.

I as a citizen are just as much to blame for the Canadian Government's actions as my own.

~Tenth

The question is did pirates ever really want Gold?

If there's one thing a pirate knows, its that you cant eat Gold! Its a zero sum game for a pirate in a colonised world. People are resources in gaining political power, but were pirates interested only in slaves? Perhaps, perhaps not....

Now all pirates care about is gold, not people or political power...

This century sucks!

Take me back to the open sea fairing age of the 1700s where everything was still to play for.

Today's world is fooly scripted! And we knows, whether we knows we knows it or doesn't. AR!!!

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

OH I don't expect you to be guilty or anything. I just don't expect people to hate migrants because of the situation they are in.

As we all had a part to play in it. I'm not a proponent of letting every single of them in without due process or making sure security considerations are made.

I'm mostly upset about the outlandishly Xenophobic way this is being talked about from on side or the other.

~Tenth

a reply to: tothetenthpower

I welcome the people in need to the UK, we have been doing so for over a thousand years and you are correct we helped make the mess.
Xenophobia is rife on ATS and I must admit I thought better of many.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

You are wrong to blame the people for this mess. It's not us who went to war in other Country's, it's not us who wanted to change other peoples way of life (if they want to live in mudhuts and stone houses and live among their own people who are fighting everyday about their 'Allah'), its upto them. If they want to keep fighting & killing eachother because their God says so, its upto them.

I really couldn't care less if thats how they want or choose to live.

Yes, I was happy here in England... why shouldn't I be. As i say whatever is happening in Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya or Syria is nothing to do with me personally.

It's the Leaders of the World who want to interfere.

"Voters only get to choose from a few pre-bought individuals who have already sold off the future freedoms of the citizens"

a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

And your citizenry as a whole in the UK, elected the war mongers.

~Tenth

a reply to: tothetenthpower

One needs to have really infantile perception of reality, to state this current issue is about Xenophobia.

Somehow, folks have with enthousiasm forgotten what took place few months ago in Paris bound train, what happened with cartoonists both in France and in Sweden, etc. The islamic radicalism is a real threat already today - and the situation today is nothing compared where Europe is entering due to this unchecked entry of millions to Germany. This is a security issue.

The other issue purely financial issue. EU is broke already before this crisis came about. There is no infrastructure to accommodate some few new nations into midst of Europe, and no money to build that infrastructure. And these migrants are not willing to travel to North, to above polar circle - there would be as much space as they'd like to have. No, their entry to Europe is almost exclusively to Germany, and thus is financially driven rather than safety issue.

So, which ever way one bends this, Europe and in particular Germany, has imported a staggering problem. They will never be able to get rid of this new Islamic State in German Federation. Lucky enough, Saudi Arabia has promised to finance building the mosques for them. One for each 200 of migrants. Wonderful.

This is an unchecked effort to instigate a permanent islamic presence as a source of conflict in Europe

a reply to: deckdel

So, which ever way one bends this, Europe and in particular Germany, has imported a staggering problem. They will never be able to get rid of this new Islamic State in German Federation. Lucky enough, Saudi Arabia has promised to finance building the mosques for them. One for each 200 of migrants. Wonderful.

The fact that you use the words Islamic State in the 'German federation, shows that Xenophobia is at work here.

Sure, the financial aspect is a good argument. They probably should have thought of that before they spent the money to cause the problem in the first place eh?

~Tenth