Is Moral Decline a myth?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

As to sexualization of children or decline of morals, try comparing the old Muppet Show of the '70s with the new version. Compare the jokes and themes.

While they say that these are not targeted at children, understand that they are shown in prime time slots when families are watching TV.

The Muppet shows of the 70's was more adult oriented than the Muppets of today. Heck, Jim Henson even had a show back in 1975 called The Muppet Show: Sex and Violence, do you think that would air today? Jim always wanted the Muppets to appeal to children AND adults. If you want to know more watch the PBS doc In Their Own Words: Jim Henson.

Two consenting males having butt sex and getting married = Moral Decline.

Slavery being outlawed = Irrelevant apparently.

Conclusion = People arguing this crap = Ignorant Ethics deprived assholes.

Consenting adults forming a consenting union, and engaging in private acts behind closed doors or more sex on TV and not just violence is all supposed to equal moral decline. Meanwhile let's ignore everyone who's not allowing these things still having slavery, second class citizens based on sex, and totally backwards discriminatory laws. Not to mention mass genocide, ect.

Sorry but no, moral decline is a myth, if anything morality compared to the past and some places today has made leaps and bounds. Now if only we could do something about the 1% trying to rewind all this by taking over and becoming once again the greedy psychopathic emperors and kings of old.

a reply to: ketsuko

As far as I've read and seen, the "new Muppet Show" is for adults. I suppose they're looking for a second wave of success with something like the Simpsons or South Park. In all that I read, I didn't see anything about the sexualization of children...

If it's adult humor and marketed to adults, then parents should be monitoring that. Being aired in Prime Time doesn't mean it's not trash. Most of what's on TV is garbage, IMO. People who put out TV programming DON'T CARE about your children. The parents need to make it a priority. If you want your kid to grow up with a good head on his shoulders, it takes a lot of attention and involvement. (I don't mean you, particularly.) Someone already mentioned kids sitting in front of the TV for hours a day. That's poison. They might as well be poisoning their kids.

a reply to: Antidisestablishment

Is Moral Decline a myth?

Moral decline is f**kin BS. Since when was anyone better than anyone else? What time?


Sparkle my brother, moral decline is just a glass house full of people throwing stones.

a reply to: Antidisestablishment

Is moral decline in the Western world a real thing to be worried about, and worry about our children's and grandchildrens future, or is this a social construct created by the religious right to demonise liberalism and enforce their values upon the populace?

It is a socially constructed, religious right-wing myth. It is the progeny of the MSM and the likes of Limbaugh, Beck, Alex Jones, etc.

Their incessant barking about "moral decline" is a distraction.

We MUST take care of our own citizens, and the planet. We MUST ensure that our kids and grandkids have a liveable planet, enough to eat and water to drink. That they have shelter, and security, and clothing, and needn't worry about whether a bad accident or serious illness will force them into homelessness.

Short answer: NO. Morality is on the INCREASE.

Much to the chagrine of those who are allergic to helping their fellow men, who are so worried about their own "having enough" that they would sneer at those in need, who think ancient books know better than modern, evolved society....This country is making progress. Having that wrecking ball and chain attached to the movement of the USA into a sane, compassionate, holistically healthy populace is a huge hindrance.

People like...oh *thinking*,
say, Kim Davis, Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, John Hagee....you know - that type.....
THOSE are the people holding us back.

a reply to: steamiron

Absolutely

a reply to: Antidisestablishment

I'm still wondering what you meant by "the paedophile agenda behind the sexualisation of children"... Where do you see that?

a reply to: rupertg

Yes, but I'm asking you to compare the themes. Are you seriously telling me that the shows are at all the same? That there has been NO shift in the degree of sexualization in the two versions of the shows?

We've gone from Pigs in Space to Fozzie Bear making jokes about grinder. My point being if there is no moral decline, what was considered adult and risqué in the '70s should still be so today, right? Instead, look at the degree of difference. We had to seriously update the level of adultness to produce something that could be called "adult" by today's standards.

a reply to: Antidisestablishment

No, the golden age is not a myth. I remember it.

I grew up in a small farming community in NZ where we used to leave our houses unlocked, we were all friends with one another, would all help each other out with big jobs like bringing the hay in and would have parties for the entire street.

Fast forward to 2015, 8 farms have been brought up by an outsider to that original community and are one big farm now. There are two original families left on the road now, my Mother with a tiny part of our original farm and one stalwart kept his farm at the original size.

The sense of community there is dead. The good times are gone and what was a little piece of paradise is lost.

What caused it?

Loss of morality?

Over sexuality in the media?

Gay marriage?

Abortion?

Walking away from Christianity?

None of the above actually. It was pure economics. The original farmers got older and sold up, at the same time land prices skyrocketed and greedy people swooped in an speculated on the land that brought up happy families in the name of profit.
Now those same hardworking families I grew up in can't afford to buy into the dream we once had. The farm my father paid $300,000 for in 1985 sold for $2,200,000 in 2005. That is nearly 7 times the price - well above the rate of inflation over the same period.

So, it is not morals that caused us to lose our way of life. Nope it is money. Take away the average person's ability to live easily and life becomes a struggle. When life becomes a struggle we start to only care about ourselves. Start to put ourselves first and we lose that wonderful sense of community and interconnection.

a reply to: markosity1973

Some of it was economics and some of it, I'll bet was that the kids of those families decided the simple, rural life was not for them. They left for the big city and those older folks couldn't keep up with the property and sold it to the ones willing to invest.

It's happening all over.

a reply to: Antidisestablishment
I do think there is a moral decline but I place the blame squarely on religion. We are seeing acts of hatred, decriminalization and violence perpetrated by "true believers" or fundamentalists under some doctrine of "people who are not like us are unclean." In the west it tends to take the form of divisiveness and trying to treat some as second class citizens, and in other parts of the world it is used to justify slavery, rape, torture and genocide.

Yes we are morally devolving and the paradoxically many (not all) of those responsible promote this under the banner of "morality".

a reply to: metamagic

I'd be curious to know how you define morality because last I checked, most of the Western world's entertainment, governance and other power structures were not in any affiliated with religion, mock it even, and they evince moral decay every bit as much as anything else in the world.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: markosity1973

Some of it was economics and some of it, I'll bet was that the kids of those families decided the simple, rural life was not for them. They left for the big city and those older folks couldn't keep up with the property and sold it to the ones willing to invest.

It's happening all over.

Yes and no. I wanted to be a farmer, but couldn't get a job because I have no wife (I am sure you know why). And that was typical for a lot of us - one farm would raise at least three children on our street meaning that if we did a logical one to one replacement on the existing farms 2/3 of us had no choice but to leave. Our parents in many cases made the decision to sell up, not even giving any of us the option to take over the land either.

My youngest brother (who is 15 years younger than me) has just had to walk off a farming job a few weeks ago. He really wants to be a farmer too, but the economic situation is so bad this year for farmers that his boss picked on him until he got to the point of having a nervous breakdown. He was literally forced off the land by an unscrupulous cold and uncaring land owner who runs the place for money only.

I am currently looking at ways we can use what little we have left of the family farm and money to see if we can at least get him back into the life we all shared growing up.

a reply to: markosity1973

Here in the US, it's very hard to make a go as solely a family farm. Most who do only farm as their second job. I have cousins who still farm, and my folks rent their portion of the family land to them for cattle and crops. But both my cousins have "real" jobs as their primary income.

a reply to: ketsuko

And that is the problem and the way NZ is going too.

The people who grow our food are very poorly looked after, and yet without their hard work we would all starve. When we moved to the farm in 1983 we had 140 acres and 140 cows. That was enough for Dad to be able to raise 5 children and pay the mortgage. (which was only $300,000)

You'd never be able to do that now. If my brother were lucky enough to get into a farm, he would need at least 400 acres and 400 cows and have a mortgage of around $3,000,000

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

RE: Sexualising Children

I think you do see it in the US, we definitely have seen this in the UK. You can find good examples of clothing lines aimed at kids which totaly put out the wrong message. Primark not long ago had to remove a Little Miss Naughty padded bra from sale in their UK stores, but I think you had the Abercrombie and Fitch thongs for kids on sale in the US.

We have become all too aware of late of the paedophile gangs in the UK who operate amongst the establishment, going right to the top of the government. These aren't your usual grubby raincoat men. They are well educated, highly connected and hold positions of power. They would love to have the age of consent lowered so they would no longer be prosecuted for going after fresh meat. I'm personally in favour of Romeo and Juliet laws which prevent young teens with less than three years age gaps ending up on the sex offenders register, but you have to be aware that former MPs have been linked not just to molestation, but also child ritual murder. This is even in the mainstream media now in the UK. Seriously sick stuff.

I believe that yes, we are in a moral decline.

It has nothing to do with religion, or the lack thereof.

I think that the general sense of right and wrong has been screwed. And the "Me" mentality of today is much more intense than it used to be. People used to CARE about others. INDIVIDUAL others. Now they care about groups, when it advances a personal need of theirs.

People are too wrapped up in the digital world, too involved in the media that's thrown at us. Too taken in by the MSM,and refuse to acknowledge simple truisms.

Bill Maher has been touching on this on his show in reference to Liberals. I think it's EVERYBODY.

Just smiling and sating "Good Morning!" to a stranger gets you the strangest looks. Except, when you do it to an older person. They get it. But the younger generations.....nope. They are completely taken aback that you would do such a thing.

Yes, morals are in decline, as is civility, and politeness.

We are divided, and essentially as rude as we know how to be to others,more than we care what we portray ourselves as.

I'm a big believer in free speech, and yes, you can say whatever you want, but you can CHOOSE to be an insensitive idiot.

originally posted by: Antidisestablishment
Is moral decline in the Western world a real thing to be worried about, and worry about our children's and grandchildrens future, or is this a social construct created by the religious right to demonise liberalism and enforce their values upon the populace?

We've expanded our morals, to be more inclusive of alternative viewpoints.

Are the Ten Commandments still valid as moral laws, or is human nature and human conscience inherently good and in no need of moral laws?

Well, according to God, the Ten Commandments are given for a period of time only, when men walk the earth freely, and are free to wonder whether or not there is any God at all. During this period of time, they have to be taught what is right and what is wrong, by other teachers who understand the scriptures. Then, during the next period of time, HE puts the laws in your DNA, so that you automatically follow the laws, so during that period human conscience is inherently good and in no need for moral laws.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. KJV, Jeremiah 31:33

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. KJV, Jeremiah 31:34

No one will have to tell you what to do.

So, the question is, "Which period of time do you think we're in?"

Why act right if there is no reward for doing so?.

If there is a moral decline going on, and IMHO there is one, it is because of the way people are conditioned to act in an acceptable way that is acceptable to their peers and other people who they really wouldn't place much credence upon if they weren't impressionable and child-like.

Just leave your children to view what they please on the internet or TV and it becomes obvious where they get some of those confused ideas they cultivate.

Religion and government cannot fix this.

It is time for many to stop blaming entities with shoulders that are supposedly wide enough to take on their problems and errors for them so they don't have to feel guilty for doing what they know to be wrong.

Mankind is inherently irresponsible and could benefit greatly from living by one simple rule.

"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you".

Since morality is completely subjective and can be completely different from person to person, it is impossible for morals to be in decline. There is no way to measure morals to begin with in order for them to decline from that spot.