Obama: Mass shootings are 'something we should politicize'

originally posted by: vor78
a reply to: FreeQuebec86

I remember the incident you speak of in the Canadian parliament. Luckily it wasn't any worse than it was, and true, it might have been worse with a different firearm. I'm not aware of what he had specifically. Regardless, the security forces did a great job in that case as well and put him down quickly.

But yeah, I will agree that Canadian and US cultures are significantly different regarding firearms. For that matter, there are large differences in culture on the issue even within US borders. But believe me, its virtually impossible for me to forget about the prevalence of firearms in US society. My area is up to its eyeballs in fireams of all kinds. But violent crime, including gun-related crime, really isn't something you have to worry about around here or in most areas outside the major cities.

I looked like a Shotgun or Hunter rifle. he hold it 2 hand like a shotgun in the photo from the parlement.

And "mass shooting" seem to be in small town, but gang gun crime seem to be in major cities.

I can see that you still "feel safe" even if all people around you have gun. And you lived with that all ur life. But, to the face of all other "advance country"... It's not normal and dangerous.

But for NRA, it's for your own-protection haha...

But eh, i don't change my life due to not living in USA. it's just troubling to have a normal day, then the country next to you have a other Mass shooting... It's just f*ck up ur day thinking about these people at school having one of the WORST life ending kind of way to die...

And it happen just too often.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: theantediluvian

Because you support the police state ?

And like to infringe on constitutional rights even if there isn't a color able reason to?

No, I fully support 2nd Amendment rights; I'm just not into histrionics, denying reality or lame tough guy gun memes!

originally posted by: FreeQuebec86

originally posted by: vor78
a reply to: FreeQuebec86

I remember the incident you speak of in the Canadian parliament. Luckily it wasn't any worse than it was, and true, it might have been worse with a different firearm. I'm not aware of what he had specifically. Regardless, the security forces did a great job in that case as well and put him down quickly.

But yeah, I will agree that Canadian and US cultures are significantly different regarding firearms. For that matter, there are large differences in culture on the issue even within US borders. But believe me, its virtually impossible for me to forget about the prevalence of firearms in US society. My area is up to its eyeballs in fireams of all kinds. But violent crime, including gun-related crime, really isn't something you have to worry about around here or in most areas outside the major cities.

I looked like a Shotgun or Hunter rifle. he hold it 2 hand like a shotgun in the photo from the parlement.

And "mass shooting" seem to be in small town, but gang gun crime seem to be in major cities.

I can see that you still "feel safe" even if all people around you have gun. And you lived with that all ur life. But, to the face of all other "advance country"... It's not normal and dangerous.

But for NRA, it's for your own-protection

haha...

But eh, i don't change my life due to not living in USA. it's just troubling to have a normal day, then the country next to you have a other Mass shooting... It's just f*ck up ur day thinking about these people at school having one of the WORST life ending kind of way to die...

And it happen just too often.

Semi auto rifles are about 1 percent of gun crimes in the US. That includes AR's. It's concealable handguns that kill people in gang warfare by far that create those scary stats.

originally posted by: FreeQuebec86
+ OMG, i just learn that Gun compagny CAN NOT be sue in the USA.... WTF is that ??? So if a safety lock dont work, you cannot sue that compagny???

Gun companies CAN be sued in the US in cases where a faulty product results in accidental injury. They cannot be sued for criminal misuse of their products under the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. However, that's essentially true of ALL businesses in the US, not just gun-related businesses. That particular law is only different in that its specific to the firearms industry.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: FreeQuebec86

Why would a company be sued?

Is it a car companies fault when a drunk driver kills a pedestrian should they also be responsible?

When the brake dont work, yeah you can sue them. I recall Toyota had that or something about the air bag deploying for no reasons and the brake dont work.

When a gun have a faulty "safety lock" you can't sue the compagny back LOL. It's like NRA are dictators and control how the gouvernement must threat other gun compagny.

originally posted by: vor78

originally posted by: FreeQuebec86
+ OMG, i just learn that Gun compagny CAN NOT be sue in the USA.... WTF is that ??? So if a safety lock dont work, you cannot sue that compagny???

Gun companies CAN be sued in the US in cases where a faulty product results in accidental injury. They cannot be sued for criminal misuse of their products under the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. However, that's essentially true of ALL businesses in the US, not just gun-related businesses. That particular law is only different in that its specific to the firearms industry.

Kk, thx so they can finally. The media ( RDI in Canada ) was talking about killing then.

a reply to: FreeQuebec86

You know damn well what I'm talking about and it's not about defected items so please stop with your childish arguments.

originally posted by: theantediluvian

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: theantediluvian

Because you support the police state ?

And like to infringe on constitutional rights even if there isn't a color able reason to?

No, I fully support 2nd Amendment rights; I'm just not into histrionics, denying reality or lame tough guy gun memes!

Do you really support second amendment rights as the founders INTENDED ?

The right of the people to keep and bear arms.

Without having to ask the state for permission to buy one.

Without a requirement of what it look's like.

Without a requirement of how many rounds comes out with the squeeze of the trigger.

Without a requirement of how many rounds the magazine can hold.

You fully support Americans rights of not being held accountable for crimes they do not commit ?

You also fully support their constitutional rights of DUE PROCESS, and them having their day in court, and crimes proven in courts of law rather than the kangaroo courts of public opinion.

You support their 14th amendment RIGHT of LIFE,LIBERTY, and PROPERTY ?

Somehow I don't think you do.

it feels like their is a mass shooting every month and 9 times out of 10 it leads back to prescription pills. the guns need to be out of the hands of criminals and people with mental illness.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I didn't notice that this was posted already and made another thread in BAN. In that thread I pointed out how convenient it seems that mass shootings are too common an occurrence under an administration so willing to try to impose gun controls in the U.S.

However, to me it seems that now we have a President that is willing to get Americans killed to implement gun controls. It's too much of a coincidence that more mass shootings seem to be occurring under the watch of this administration, and they don't waste any time and allowing the families of those killed to grief before the President calls for "gun control"...

IMO, this does deserve to be investigated asap. I could be wrong, but can't shake the feeling that it is not a coincidence.

Northern Illinois University - 2008
Kirkwood City Council - 2008
Virginia Tech - 2007
Westroads Mall - 2007
Amish school shooting - 2006
Capitol Hill massacre - 2006
Red Lake massacre - 2005
Lockheed Martin shooting - 2003

and so on and so forth. I suppose they could all be false flags? I mean, you know, nobody is ever just homicidal and insane.

originally posted by: theantediluvian

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: theantediluvian

Because you support the police state ?

And like to infringe on constitutional rights even if there isn't a color able reason to?

No, I fully support 2nd Amendment rights; I'm just not into histrionics, denying reality or lame tough guy gun memes!

Ah..that explains a few things. It's not the gun, it's your perception of the so-called gun culture. You don't like a man's man. You don't like a real man expressing real men attitudes in manly ways. You prefer a bit of gentleness and civility. No cursing. No passionate strong-arming. I got it!

Most of these mass shootings are done with legally purchased firearms. This tells me that its not "criminals" doing these mass shootings, but previously normal law-abiding American citizens.

Normal law-abiding citizens like myself don't know where to find a shady black market gun runner. I wouldn't even know who to ask, I stay away from bad neighborhoods and drug dealers.

For law-abiding people, it's far easier to just go into a gun store with their clean record and buy the guns they want for their planned massacres. No muss, no fuss. Why try to infiltrate the seedy underbelly of the criminal world when you can just go to Walmart (here Walmart sells guns) or one of many gun stores?

I've gone with friends to buy guns here, and it's pretty easy. As long as you appear normal and pass the NICS background check (it's a phone call that seemed to take less than 10 minutes) -- you're all set.

So what does this mean? It means that people without past criminal history are legally buying guns and using them to massacre people. Instead of blaming the guns we ought to be looking at why these people are so tweaked around and pissed off at the world.

Perhaps it is because we have become so disassociated, marginalized, dehumanized, hopeless, disenfranchised by our culture. The value of the individual human life is worth so little these days in the grand corporate machine that runs our society. People feel small, insignificant and trapped. People feel like they don't matter and that life is pointless and painful.

We should be looking at the toxic culture we've created and the reasons why these people get so twerked and bent out of shape, their minds twisted and their morals forgotten.

So what is our answer? More guns? What?! What kind of logic is that? That is like putting a band aid on arterial wound.

We need to be figuring out what is making these people snap, we need to be fixing our culture and our society. Having everyone run around with guns isn't going to keep the social outcast from wanting to go out in a blaze of glory to be remembered. Having teachers run around with handguns isn't going to keep that student from feeling like their life is meaningless and there is no hope for their future.

Arming more people doesn't fix the underlying issue at hand.

Until we grow a pair and buckle down on fixing the issues that are now woven into the fabric of our culture, these will continue to happen. It seems unlikely that we'll do that though. No, we'd rather just blame pills, stockpile guns and arm everyone. We never, EVER want to hold our culture up to the mirror and see the ugliness that would stare back in our faces.

No, we'd rather burry our heads in the sand. Might as well grab your guns, unless we address the real, deep-rooted problems within our culture things like this will only continue to happen.

MysticMushroom,

I have a problem with the first paragraph. A link showing that informational tidbit would be appreciated. Please and thank you.

originally posted by: queenofswords
MysticMushroom,

I have a problem with the first paragraph. A link showing that informational tidbit would be appreciated. Please and thank you.

I posted this information earlier in the main thread about the shooting, but here you go:

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: theantediluvian

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: theantediluvian

Because you support the police state ?

And like to infringe on constitutional rights even if there isn't a color able reason to?

No, I fully support 2nd Amendment rights; I'm just not into histrionics, denying reality or lame tough guy gun memes!

Do you really support second amendment rights as the founders INTENDED ?

The right of the people to keep and bear arms.

Without having to ask the state for permission to buy one.

Without a requirement of what it look's like.

Without a requirement of how many rounds comes out with the squeeze of the trigger.

Without a requirement of how many rounds the magazine can hold.

You fully support Americans rights of not being held accountable for crimes they do not commit ?

You also fully support their constitutional rights of DUE PROCESS, and them having their day in court, and crimes proven in courts of law rather than the kangaroo courts of public opinion.

You support their 14th amendment RIGHT of LIFE,LIBERTY, and PROPERTY ?

Somehow I don't think you do.

Well its complicated. There is also a public safety aspect the founders didn't necessarily have at the time. I think semi autos with large mags are an insignificant risk in terms of the numbers people like to throw out. They are also more geared towards the seconds intention.

Hand guns should in my opinion be addressed somehow with much better safety and marksmanship training because of the much larger risk for accident.

Your rifle is at home if it hit the fan you can protect yourself. The hand gun should require more safety and marksmanship to lower the risks to the public or others liberty from accident. (Compromise to the left)

Mental illness and medication needs to be addressed. In my opinion pills and mental illness means limited access.

I also think a special program for vets may cut down on suicides while undergoing major trauma/ptsd therapy.

a reply to: luthier

No it isn't complicated.

The Bill of RIghts is clearly spelled out.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

The shooting today is an exception then. He was only 20, so he could not have obtained his guns legally.

The Columbine shootings also were done by minors, so the guns they got hold of were not sold to them legally.

I guess perhaps I was thinking of overall shootings because gang violence accounts for about half the shootings and most of those are done with illegally acquired weapons.

a reply to: luthier

Imagine taking a fully automatic machine gun back in time to meet with our founding fathers. Imagine linking up a ton of watermelons and other objects and blowing them away in just a few seconds. Imagine telling them, "this is a firearm, it's just a lot more powerful and advanced than your muskets...so, should every American be able to have one of these babies?"

I'm not quite sure, but I think after they crawled out of hiding -- they'd probably tell you that they never envisioned those kinds of weapons in the hands of millions of people. Heck, they probably never really envisioned that America would become the size it is now.

I'm trying to imagine Ben Franklin's face as melons and barrels of water explode and shells go flying out of the receiver...

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Most of these mass shootings are done with legally purchased firearms. This tells me that its not "criminals" doing these mass shootings, but previously normal law-abiding American citizens.

Normal law-abiding citizens like myself don't know where to find a shady black market gun runner. I wouldn't even know who to ask, I stay away from bad neighborhoods and drug dealers.

For law-abiding people, it's far easier to just go into a gun store with their clean record and buy the guns they want for their planned massacres. No muss, no fuss. Why try to infiltrate the seedy underbelly of the criminal world when you can just go to Walmart (here Walmart sells guns) or one of many gun stores?

I've gone with friends to buy guns here, and it's pretty easy. As long as you appear normal and pass the NICS background check (it's a phone call that seemed to take less than 10 minutes) -- you're all set.

So what does this mean? It means that people without past criminal history are legally buying guns and using them to massacre people. Instead of blaming the guns we ought to be looking at why these people are so tweaked around and pissed off at the world.

Perhaps it is because we have become so disassociated, marginalized, dehumanized, hopeless, disenfranchised by our culture. The value of the individual human life is worth so little these days in the grand corporate machine that runs our society. People feel small, insignificant and trapped. People feel like they don't matter and that life is pointless and painful.

We should be looking at the toxic culture we've created and the reasons why these people get so twerked and bent out of shape, their minds twisted and their morals forgotten.

So what is our answer? More guns? What?! What kind of logic is that? That is like putting a band aid on arterial wound.

We need to be figuring out what is making these people snap, we need to be fixing our culture and our society. Having everyone run around with guns isn't going to keep the social outcast from wanting to go out in a blaze of glory to be remembered. Having teachers run around with handguns isn't going to keep that student from feeling like their life is meaningless and there is no hope for their future.

Arming more people doesn't fix the underlying issue at hand.

Until we grow a pair and buckle down on fixing the issues that are now woven into the fabric of our culture, these will continue to happen. It seems unlikely that we'll do that though. No, we'd rather just blame pills, stockpile guns and arm everyone. We never, EVER want to hold our culture up to the mirror and see the ugliness that would stare back in our faces.

No, we'd rather burry our heads in the sand. Might as well grab your guns, unless we address the real, deep-rooted problems within our culture things like this will only continue to happen.

Well nearly every mass murder was done by people on pills. There are studies on it.

Criminology is a whole theoretical subject. It has been studied. To generalize when a person doesn't feel connected to society and is in poverty (stress) chances go way up.

Obviously if you are mentally unstable that's a huge factor. Throw in psychotropic drugs and I s even worse. If you are going to a psychiatrist and on powerfull drugs that cause violent and suicidal behaviour as a side effect , not to mention if you suddenly stop taking them or don't have access to them for any reason it can be very bad.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

It doesn't matter. As cold and callus as it is to say, homicides by firearms by citizens who legally attained them is so minuscule that you will find bee stings kill 10 times as many per year.

Because it happens does not mean anything. How many people does alcohol, car accidents, skydiving, crab fishing, etc kill every year? The majority of gun deaths in America are by suicide or by very isolated gang violence that doesn't really affect the rest of the country.

Much like "domestic terrorism" the stats are total BS and have been skewed in order to relieve liberties from American citizens when statistically and I'm sorry to say this but they are just.... Not important.