Carly Fiorina: Waterboarding Helped ‘Keep Our Nation Safe’

a reply to: Sremmos80

Hey what YEAR is it ?

2015!

Why are people talking about 'waterboarding' AGAIN ?

Never said the left isn't guilty of it, th

Johnson, and CLinton sure are.

Ah yes, water boarding doesn't work. Sawing the heads off of Americans and putting the videos on the Internet doesn't work either, the US military continues to wage war unabated. Gitmo doesn't work, there's still Muslim jihadis. Suicide bombing doesn't work, American soldiers fight on.

It's a war, only one thing works, killing enough of the enemy that the remainders of the population lack the will to fight on. The Allies fire bombed Dresden, Germany, killing women and children. The US nuked Japan, killing everything that breathed. Germany and Japan surrendered.

Why can't the civilized nations of the world win a war anymore? Why can the Taliban and Isis win conflicts with ease? Because savagery wins, it ends conflicts.

Stop crying about water boarding, it's not that bad. Cry about the fact that NATO and the UN lack the will to ever win anything anymore. Why? Because civilized people don't have the heart to do what must be done.

a reply to: neo96

Neo do you understand what the thread is about? Or are you lost in your own rants?

Go back and read the op and see who is talking about waterboarding and why we are now talking about it.

This is about one woman and her thoughts on it, not about what ever red herring you can think of next.

Carly Fiorina kinda sounds like Cali Fornia.
Just sayin ... pun intended...for obivous reasons.

a reply to: buster2010

Buster how many people have you questioned on or off the battlefield?

originally posted by: IAMTAT
a reply to: crazyewok

And how do you propose we get information from them that could stop a future act of terror against our families and other innocents...or that may lead to those already planning these attacks?

Should we have Cardinal Fang fetch "The Comfy Chair"?
www.youtube.com...

Look picking up a KNOWN high profile terrorist in a terrorist hot zone and knocking them around abit and certain "rough" integration techniques is going to happen I accept that and will turn a blind eye to that. Not pleasant but meh.

What I DONT agree with is systematic' planned torture camps were people are tortured and abused over the long term on minimal evidence. I dont agree with extraordinary rendition were your country kidnaps peoples on little to no evidence and fly's them to these torture camps, denied any due process and tortured over years! Then detained indefinitely without charge when either they are out right INNOCENT or Out right evil scum bags who need to be brought to trial and imprisoned for life so there uncharged status doesn't allow idiot presidents to release them as bargaining chips.

sounds like a jeb bush comment
Today I learned some interesting facts . Carly Fiorina was on The View Friday because she was mad about them talking about her appearance. The ladies commented that her face looked “demented” and Joy Behar remarked, “I wish it was a Halloween mask.” After Fiorina addressed the remarks during a campaign fundraiser, The View decided to bring her back

urbanpolitix.com...

a reply to: hammanderr

Perhaps you cannot see the forest for the trees?

NATO and the US are not really interested in "victory", and of course nobody has defined that term.

No, they are interested in a permanent state of war because it's good for business. I think we're in year 13 of endless war, gotta love it.

a reply to: 200Plus

I have never done it but it doesn't mean I can't say it was wrong and didn't work.

How many have your questioned? I assume you must have some experience since you asked.

Edit: Sigh, seems this was a bumped thread. Oh well, hopefully someone reads it and comes to a more informed decision.

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but torture was originally used to get people to say they had done or said things they had not.

Torture someone and they will say anything you want

24 (the TV show) did so much damage to our nation coming out after 9/11. It promoted the idea of a ticking time bomb, and that we had to use torture in order to get time sensitive information to keep the country safe. More so than any political justification it was 24 that really popularized the notion of terrorism being a hard choice the nation had to make. It was so popular that one of our Supreme Court justices thought that Jack Bauer and his exploits were real, and that they were a factual account of how torture was protecting us. If you don't believe me, read for yourself:

Justice Scalia responded with a defense of Agent Bauer, arguing that law enforcement officials deserve latitude in times of great crisis. “Jack Bauer saved Los Angeles…. He saved hundreds of thousands of lives,” Judge Scalia reportedly said. “Are you going to convict Jack Bauer?” He then posed a series of questions to his fellow judges: “Say that criminal law is against him? ‘You have the right to a jury trial?’ Is any jury going to convict Jack Bauer?”

“I don’t think so,” Scalia reportedly answered himself. “So the question is really whether we believe in these absolutes. And ought we believe in these absolutes.”

And sources for that quote...
www.msnbc.com...
blogs.wsj.com...
www.theatlantic.com...
www.newsweek.com...

This should horrify you, and in my opinion completely discredit the use of torture and it's legality.

a reply to: Sremmos80

Dozens actually, though I never water boarded anyone.

We learned early that directed psychological interrogation worked much faster and was far more effective.

That mind gives way long before the body.

When saving the lives of my men is the question I really don''t care so much how the answers are provided.

a reply to: 200Plus

Does torturing captives "save the lives of your men" in theory, or in reality? Is it a hypothetical you describe, saving your men, or a real situation?

a reply to: Salander

I asked a reality based question why would I not give a reality based response?

I have little doubt that our interpretations of torture are miles apart.

One can question an individual and get answers without inflicting harm. You just have to have the idea of harm be great enough to elicit a response.

a reply to: 200Plus

I'm all for interrogation on the battlefield. To use the modern parlance, it's the "enhanced" interrogation that causes problems.

As another poster noted, we have been conditioned by silly programs like "24" that the ticking time bomb scenario is real and common. I don't buy into that.

Oh my god, I cannot believe that some people are arguing that waterboarding isn't torture. Or that torture isn't incredibly unreliable.

As Jesse said to someone I can't remember, "If I waterboarded you 183 times, you'd confess."
That is someone who has actually been waterboarded.

It is torture.
It is illegal.
End of discussion.

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
Oh my god, I cannot believe that some people are arguing that waterboarding isn't torture. Or that torture isn't incredibly unreliable.

As Jesse said to someone I can't remember, "If I waterboarded you 183 times, you'd confess."
That is someone who has actually been waterboarded.

It is torture.
It is illegal.
End of discussion.

Seconded. Loudly. Plus it doesn't bloody work.

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

What lies are you creating now? The Jesse Ventura was tortured?

He's not a combat veteran, he's a Viet Nam veteran (world of difference). He served in the Philippines during the war.

I'm not arguing for waterboarding or any other physical torture, its barbaric and outdated.

If you people worry about waterboarding the things that actually go on during combat would drive you to professional help.

a reply to: 200Plus

*sigh*
Please know what you're talking about before you call me a liar.

Jesse has gone on record many, many times saying he was waterboarded as part of his SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape) training. He has been waterboarded, by "friendlies" no less, not "the enemy", and he is still adamant it is torture. So yes, he was tortured. Because he was waterboarded. Because waterboarding is torture, as you seem to agree.

There is a difference between what happens on the field of battle and what happens 183 times over the course of days, weeks and years.

It might. It certainly does that to soldiers, PTSD and all.

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

Ah, I apologize for jumping the gun there. Honestly.

As real as the try to make SERE, you know two things 1) it's going to end 2)you won't die.

He's gone on record saying 'hunting loses it's thrill after you've hunted men." (paraphrasing) when he's never seen combat.

Take what Mr. Ventura says with a ton of salt (even when he agrees with you) as he is first and foremost an entertainer.

EDIT - As Mr. Ventura was BUDS and not SeAL I'd doubt the SERE story without his paperwork to be honest. But what do I know I'm just a g.r.u.n.t.

a reply to: 200Plus

It's fine. I mostly responded so irately because I thought it was relatively common knowledge that Jesse had been waterboarded, since he's talked about it a fair deal as far as I can garner.

Which would make the real thing infinitely worse, though the second point isn't necessarily correct. He's actually addressed that, essentially saying that you don't know you aren't going to die, because if it's done wrong you can (or at least get brain damage, I'd presume.)

What was the context? Strictly speaking, he could still say that even without having seen actual combat. It's fairly likely they've "hunted" people (possibly other members of their unit) for training purposes. Like playing tag, but with guns.

True enough. He says a great deal of sensible things, however, and is extremely passionate about this particular topic.