On "White Male Privilege"

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I think some have intrinsic racist tendencies that aren't helped by how the media loves to play races against one another.

It isn't just police encounters either. I have personally witnessed as minorities were scored lower arbitrarily on interview panels. All of the scores from the people conducting the interviews were always very close except for the one minority person.

One out of the three on the interview panel scored that minority about half of what the other two did. This individual that scored the minority applicant low didn't exhibit overt racist behavior. There are biases people carry around and act upon with subtlety.

Simply because it's not a slur, joke, or an overt act doesn't mean it isn't racism.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: amazing

Also statistically, and this is proven, women don't make as much as men, generally.

Then why don't companies bent on profit hire all women? Because it isn't true. It's illegal to discriminate based on gender. The so-called wage gap doesn't account for personal life choices, such as having children, working longer, working more dangerous jobs, etc.

Yet the wage gap exists. It's statistically proven. Anecdotaly , my wife has seen that in her last 3 jobs.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: amazing
All I'm saying is that there is a distinct advantage to being white and male.

You're saying that, but your evidence demonstrating the same is simply not there.

What about those numbers? 4% of CEOs of fortune 500 companies and 20% of congress. Also statistically, and this is proven, women don't make as much as men, generally.

It can't all be laziness, lack of motivation.

I already addressed this:

time.com...

#1 job for Psychopaths is CEO.

www.ted.com...

Given that - again - the genetics for psychopaths are held in the Y chromosome, you're blissfully ignoring that biology and neurology play huge roles in individuals that seek out the position of CEO.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Did a German have privilege over a Jew in Nazi Germany?


Of course they did.


That is an example of the principle of privilege in society based on racism that the concept is trying to identify


Did a white southern male have privileges over a black male during 19th century slavery times and even decades after that? As well as woman white or black?


Now you could argue that it has lessened to a great degree with the emancipation of blacks and woman but the principle of white male privilege is based on these historical social realities not any philosophical extrapolations

a reply to: amazing

Yet the wage gap exists. It's statistically proven. Anecdotaly , my wife has seen that in her last 3 jobs.

Yes, because women on average work less, take less high-paying jobs, choose to have children, take more part-time positions, etc. These are personal choices.

originally posted by: amazing
You are right in that women are closing the gap, but women still make less then men, have less positions of power, hold less elected positions, hold less military leadership roles and have much less wealth. It's just true.

You seem to be repeating some Men's Rights Group issues, like the whiny, victim mentality of "A Voice for Men" and some of the others. You have an advantage, use it. Get ahead in life. I did.

Excuse me, but please stop using generalities and start actually providing hard information. You keep making these claims - that are nothing more than talking-point memos spread by upworth/buzzfeed and not adding anything to the conversation beyond "I'm right, you're wrong, go research, blah blah blah." You know what, i don't agree with the methodology that AVFM uses to address issues because they're incredibly hostile, but here's a dose of reality for you. If there weren't problems there, then they wouldn't have a following. Sit on that for a minute.

a reply to: Willtell

Now you could argue that it has lessened to a great degree with the emancipation of blacks and woman but the principle of white male privilege is based on these historical social realities not any philosophical extrapolations

Except Nazi Germany and the 19th century are no longer realities. If you want to call Nazis or 19th century southerners privileged be my guest. I probably wouldn't disagree. Except we are talking about white male privilege.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Simply because it's not a slur, joke, or an overt act doesn't mean it isn't racism.

Doesn't mean it is either.

Could there not be some other legitimate reason he might not have been chosen? Or must we assume that because a black person didn't achieve something, it was because of racism? Perhaps he wasn't the best candidate.

Why do you automatically assume racism?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Yes. Discrimination on the basis of skin color is racism.

Your "easy setting" is a testament to your wealth and standing, not your race.

I like what LesMisanthrope wrote in his O.P. because I don't think someone should be punished for how they are born - white and / or male. I think there should be more focus on celebrating wealth and sharing wealth with others than focus on hating people or even telling people to sabotage themselves just because they are white and / or male.

Although there are reports showing that black men earn much less than white men on average, and similar studies for women, it is better to approach this issue by seeing how we can help those trailing behind rather than wondering how to punish those who were simply born a certain way.

On to another issue - not all white men are doing super fantastic! White men are not immune from struggling, being poor, being homeless, any of that. It just happens to them less often. So are you going to find a white homeless man and tell him to check his privilege?

I understand this is a contentious issue, and I thank you folks for keeping this discussion within the realm of respectful dialogue. ATS is a class act.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

All phenomena has an etiological basis


Nothing exists in a vacuum

I did say that it is arguable that things have changed


Sure weren’t not, thank God as bad as it was back then but I’m just pointing out the etiological basis of white male privilege


There was a Roman male privilege back in Roman times when they ruled the world and oppressed non Romans

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: amazing

I can believe that some of the reason is that they are minorities and thus the number will be lower and that some women don't want to be CEOs or Congressmen, but those numbers are entirely too low.

I'm not saying that a white man isn't letting them but CEOS and congress, that's an elite club dominated by white males all the way up. I think it is much harder to get into that club, get that money and get the support you need if you are not a white male.

Yes congress is predominantly white, rich, male and old. But I think this represents the demographic, not privilege.

But why this demographic. It would appear that it is harder to get into congress if you are not white and male.

No, you are assuming that race percentages should mirror positional percentages.

Which is the fatal flaw with affirmative action.

It assumes the outcome it desires, and then demands its desired outcome be made a reality.

Which is idiocy of the highest order.

Most Chinese restaurants are owned by Chinese people, does that imply racism?

No, it implies that Chinese people open Chinese restraints, and Mexicans and blacks don't.

originally posted by: amazing
What about those numbers? 4% of CEOs of fortune 500 companies and 20% of congress. Also statistically, and this is proven, women don't make as much as men, generally.

First of all, your stat is wrong. www2.ucsc.edu...

As might be expected, it was still the case that the large majority of corporate directors in 2011 were white males (74.4%), and the group with the second-highest frequency was white women (13.3%)

25.6% are non-white males... 13.3% are non-white people.

The pay gap? Women accept less money than men do? Fewer women in STEM fields? Many families still hold the traditional roles? I don't know, honestly. There are as many theories as there are stars in the sky.

Now, what about the numbers showing that 85% of the NBA's multi millionaires are black? Are sports racist, exhibiting biases against white athletes, or is there more emphasis put on black children to excel in sports vs education than is placed on white children by the parents of each group? Have minorities been told so frequently at home growing up "you can't make it in this field, but here's an excuse for you to use." that they have been victims of self defeatism before they even started their quest for success? If so, how is that a burden that should be shouldered by anyone other than the people who fed them the excuses?

a reply to: Willtell

All phenomena has an etiological basis


Nothing exists in a vacuum

I did say that it is arguable that things have changed


Sure weren’t not, thank God as bad as it was back then but I’m just pointing out the etiological basis of white male privilege


There was a Roman male privilege back in Roman times when they ruled the world and oppressed non Romans

I understand that. But it should be noted that there were many empires throughout history, and not all of them were white.

a reply to: amazing

Perhaps being born into wealth is the real privilege.

When comparing a black person born into wealth and a white person born into poverty does the white person still have privilege over the black person?

I think rich privilege is alive and well. What privilege does a white trailer trash kid from Arkansas have?
It seems that Barack Obama had a privileged life compared to a lot of those type of kids.

originally posted by: butcherguy
I think rich privilege is alive and well. What privilege does a white trailer trash kid from Arkansas have?
It seems that Barack Obama had a privileged life compared to a lot of those type of kids.

The irony is both Obama and a white trailer trash kid from Arkansas have held the highest office in the land... Proof it can be done even by an unprivileged caucasian male.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

- three people on interview panel

- all three people scored very close, within 10 points (out of possible 200) of one another for each white person interviewed

- the only exception was the minority applicant, scores followed the previous pattern for two panelists, the third's panelist's score was nearly half that of the other two

I don't see how this can be seen any other way. That lone interview panelist was right there, neck and neck with their scoring for all of the other white candidates.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Of course there was Arab privilege during the great Omayyad period

Turkish privilege at the time of the Ottomans


Even African privilege at the time of the Egyptian powers

Mayan privilege at their heights


And even Jewish privilege at the time of King David

And you better believe it can turn around and the white man can become the slave of others

And the yellow Mongol Genghis Khan kicked everybody’s butt...Mongol privilege!


It all depends on who is in power

Sigh... white privilege. Well.. I've been waiting 38 years. Where's my privilege?