does your religion belong in the United States of Americas Government?

originally posted by: ketsuko
It's not religion in a recognized sense, but in an emotional sense.

Then, it's not religious. It's support.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Sanders isn't using religion, but the same irrational following is happening.

What's irrational about it? In fact, it's EXTREMELY rational. People support him because they agree with his positions. Positions he's had his ENTIRE career. That's not religion nor is it irrational. It's not religion any more than Trump's support is.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Yeah, $18T is rational ... /sarc

Look, you cannot take away all military spending and make up that amount.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: ketsuko
It's not religion in a recognized sense, but in an emotional sense.

Then, it's not religious. It's support.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Sanders isn't using religion, but the same irrational following is happening.

What's irrational about it? In fact, it's EXTREMELY rational. People support him because they agree with his positions. Positions he's had his ENTIRE career. That's not religion nor is it irrational. It's not religion any more than Trump's support is.

Same fervor of emotion to it.

Just because Bernie hasn't declared it the Church of Bern like Beyoncé has the Beyism to channel that fervor makes no difference. THe fanaticism is there.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic


What's irrational about it? In fact, it's EXTREMELY rational. People support him because they agree with his positions. Positions he's had his ENTIRE career. That's not religion nor is it irrational. It's not religion any more than Trump's support is.

People support religious leaders because they agree with their positions. Positions they have had their entire career.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: crustyjuggler27
Well, some seem to think so, but since our government is secular, and not theocratic, no. Religion has no place in our government in any way, shape, or form.

this is not a bash the other guys religion thread. if i see it i will remove it

Psssst. You have to be a mod to remove posts.

I think you can edit your OP to be blank. Or ask that it be removed.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

From the founding documents of this nation it is obvious of the intent to keep "God" and get rid of the "Church".

Taxpayer dollars have been used to pay chaplains of the House and Senate since the spring of 1789, when the first of 106 different ordained Christian ministers were elected to those jobs.

swampland.time.com...

The Senate has elected a Chaplain since 1789 to serve as pastor, deliver opening prayers and presiding at funerals and memorial services for departed members.

Both the House and the Senate follow the same practice and employ a Chaplain who typically performs that duty, typically assisted by religious officials from outside Congress who come to deliver an opening prayer as guests on a regular basis.

A chaplain can be ANY religion. My mom is often in the hospital, sometimes close to death. One Chaplin was of a Native American religion and her name was Thunder Wind. Another was of a religion that didn't like to read certain St. Anthony booklets to her (not sure what religion, mabe Baptist)- though after I had a talk with him he apologized fior being closed minded and read to her the things she requested. Another was non-denominational Another was Wiccan. And this was in a Catholic Health System hospital. Chaplin does not necessarily mean Judeo-Christian.

I have a license to perform marriages in NY state, my title is Reverend and it is from the Church of Spiritual Humanism.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: ketsuko
It's not religion in a recognized sense, but in an emotional sense.

Then, it's not religious. It's support.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Sanders isn't using religion, but the same irrational following is happening.

What's irrational about it? In fact, it's EXTREMELY rational. People support him because they agree with his positions. Positions he's had his ENTIRE career. That's not religion nor is it irrational. It's not religion any more than Trump's support is.

Same fervor of emotion to it.

Just because Bernie hasn't declared it the Church of Bern like Beyoncé has the Beyism to channel that fervor makes no difference. THe fanaticism is there.

Now people that support Sanders are Fanatics. You should sell that talking point to Fox news, you could make a pretty penny.

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: crustyjuggler27
Well, some seem to think so, but since our government is secular, and not theocratic, no. Religion has no place in our government in any way, shape, or form.

this is not a bash the other guys religion thread. if i see it i will remove it

Psssst. You have to be a mod to remove posts.

I think you can edit your OP to be blank. Or ask that it be removed.

Yes you can, but the OP was talking about removing other members posts. Not your own.

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: crustyjuggler27
Well, some seem to think so, but since our government is secular, and not theocratic, no. Religion has no place in our government in any way, shape, or form.

this is not a bash the other guys religion thread. if i see it i will remove it

Psssst. You have to be a mod to remove posts.

I think you can edit your OP to be blank. Or ask that it be removed.

Yes you can, but the OP was talking about removing other members posts. Not your own.

Ohhh...ok. Reporting is not the same as 'having it removed'. So I have no idea what he means.
The conspiracy gorws.....lol.


I am not being mean...but reg in 2008 and OP could have had a better score just by being asleep. Though there are lurkers...7 years????

a reply to: infolurker

Well, considering US law and the foundations of government are almost entirely Judeo-Christian

I'll ask you again. What laws?

What are the Jewish laws? What are the Christian laws? How do any of our laws relate to the Bible?

Freedom of religion as a concept is embraced neither by the Jewish God nor Christian doctrine.

So, what exactly are the foundational laws of the US government that embody Judeo-Christian laws?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: infolurker

Well, considering US law and the foundations of government are almost entirely Judeo-Christian

I'll ask you again. What laws?

What are the Jewish laws? What are the Christian laws? How do any of our laws relate to the Bible?

Freedom of religion as a concept is embraced neither by the Jewish God nor Christian doctrine.

So, what exactly are the foundational laws of the US government that embody Judeo-Christian laws?

OK, what are US laws based from?


At both the federal and state levels, the law of the United States is largely derived from the common law system of Christian English law, which was in force at the time of the Revolutionary War. The common law tradition emerged in Christian England while the Civil Law developed in Christian Continental Europe.

www.law.berkeley.edu...

Historical Development of Civil Law

The term civil law derives from the Latin ius civile, the law applicable to all Roman cives or citizens. Its origins and model are to be found in the monumental compilation of Roman law commissioned by the Emperor Justinian in the sixth century CE.

Historical development of English Common Law

English common law emerged from the changing and centralizing powers of the king during the Middle Ages. After the Norman Conquest in 1066, medieval kings began to consolidate power and establish new institutions of royal authority and justice. New forms of legal action established by the crown functioned through a system of writs, or royal orders, each of which provided a specific remedy for a specific wrong.

Courts of law and courts of equity thus functioned separately until the writs system was abolished in the mid-nineteenth century. Even today, however, some U.S. states maintain separate courts of equity. Likewise, certain kinds of writs, such as warrants and subpoenas, still exist in the modern practice of common law. An example is the writ of habeas corpus, which protects the individual from unlawful detention. Originally an order from the king obtained by a prisoner or on his behalf, a writ of habeas corpus summoned the prisoner to court to determine whether he was being detained under lawful authority. Habeas corpus developed during the same period that produced the 1215 Magna Carta, or Great Charter, which declared certain individual liberties, one of the most famous being that a freeman could not be imprisoned or punished without the judgment of his peers under the law of the land—thus establishing the right to a jury trial.

Any arguments over the information presented?

Note:

ancienthistory.about.com...

Justinian was a Christian emperor of the Roman Empire on the cusp between Antiquity and the Middle Ages. History remembers Emperor Justinian for his reorganization of the government of the Roman Empire and his codification of the laws, the Codex Justinianus, in A.D. 534.

So, if you want to get to the origins here. The Christian Emperor of the Roman Empire....

I guess history has it wrong? England and Central Europe were not Christian and neither was the Christian Emperor?

LOL, stop huff po'ing history.

a reply to: windword

The Declaration of Independence mentions a Creator, this SO obviously means the Christian god and not any of the other thousands of gods that have existed throughout history. Doesn't matter that Thomas Jefferson was most likely deist, he was talking about a god he most likely didn't believe in.

a reply to: reldra

Some of them are, yes.

a reply to: infolurker

OK, what are US laws based from?


At both the federal and state levels, the law of the United States is largely derived from the common law system of Christian English law

No.
It is not.

It is based on the people who fled the country and refused to go along with the church doctrine and the forced slavery in the name of the crown.

What do you not get about this?

Okay, yeah.

Good night folks.

Sleep on all of this....it will do you good.

Of course, the other thing that in a society that is as diversity obsessed as ours is, so much so that there are informal and not so informal quotas in place in workplaces ... when it comes to this, some would say it is inappropriate to entertain the notion of people of faith.

If we are a representative Republic, then people of faith deserve a place in government as much as secular people do. And if we are obsessed with making sure every skin color is represented as well as male and female and will celebrate every person of sexual diversity, then it is no more inappropriate for people to see those of their faith representing them.

If the only people allowed to represent me in my government are secular humanists, then part of me (and part of a good many people of all faiths) is disenfranchised.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: infolurker

OK, what are US laws based from?


At both the federal and state levels, the law of the United States is largely derived from the common law system of Christian English law

No.
It is not.

It is based on the people who fled the country and refused to go along with the church doctrine and the forced slavery in the name of the crown.

What do you not get about this?

Okay, yeah.

Good night folks.

Sleep on all of this....it will do you good.

You are wrong. I know you want to "believe" that, but it is not factual or Historical.

study.com...

The Origin of Law

So where does law come from? In America, our law system came from Great Britain. The settlers of the original thirteen colonies came from Europe, and they brought with them their own set of rules and principles to be used in their new society.

The English common law was the system of law in England at that time and was quickly adopted throughout the colonies. The English common law is rooted in centuries of English history. Much of the common law was formed in the years between the Norman Conquest of England in the early 11th century and the settlement of the American colonies in the early 17th century.

Blackstone's Contribution

Shortly before the American Revolution in the last half of the 18th century, Sir William Blackstone published Commentaries on the Laws of England as a complete overview of the English common law. This publication spanned four volumes!

Blackstone described the English common law as an ancient collection of unwritten maxims and customs upon which English judicial decisions were made. Judicial decisions are decisions made by a court and are also known as case law. Therefore, Blackstone defined the English common law at that time as a large collection of cases.

Blackstone's Commentaries were crucial during the formation of the United States of America. Our Founding Fathers were looking to establish a government, and they had no other viable reference to written law. The U.S. adopted this system of common law, and it is still used today.

commonlaw.uslegal.com...

England is the origin of the common law that exists in the U.S..

The English common law originated in the early middle ages in the King’s Court (Curia Regis) and eventually led to the formulation of various viable principles through which it continues to operate. The common law has its roots in the U.S continent with the first English colonists who claimed the common law system as their birthright.

edit on 22-9-2015 by infolurker because: (no reason given)

a reply to: infolurker

OK, what are US laws based from?

You answer my question with a freshman question? I'll rephrase. How does the concept of "Freedom of Religion" conform to the Bible?

At both the federal and state levels, the law of the United States is largely derived from the common law system of Christian English law, which was in force at the time of the Revolutionary War.

England was a monarchy. It was the oppression of the church and the monarchy that spurred the revolutionary war, and caused the founding fathesr to institute a Democratic Republic

A democratic republic is, strictly speaking, a country that is both a republic and a democracy. It is one where ultimate authority and power is derived from the citizens, and the government itself is run through elected officials. Wikipedia

.

The founding father were more influenced by Athenian democracy than by Christian/English laws.

Athens in the 4th to 5th century BCE had an extraordinary system of government, whereby all male citizens had equal political rights, freedom of speech, and the opportunity to participate directly in the political arena. This system was democracy. Further, not only did citizens participate in a direct democracy whereby they themselves made the decisions by which they lived, but they also actively served in the institutions that governed them, and so they directly controlled all parts of the political process.
www.ancient.eu...

Looks like the haters are going rabid now.

Lets us remove every law that Christianity has in common with America then see what we have left.

a reply to: ketsuko

The zealous fervor with which his supporters are in his corner.

Because he's saying the same thing that Jesus did.
Maybe you should reconsider your stance.

Sanders is the guy who is promoting Jesus's words.....without invoking his name at all.

TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.

"You just... don't... get it do ya? Ya don't!"

Ones faith is of the heart and highly personal.

Once that faith is sullied in the political it is diminished. Becoming a "religion" that will be despised.