U.S. Postal Service Has Not Earned a Profit in Almost a Decade

a reply to: neo96

I wonder what other parts of the constitution we ought to re-write? Conservatives are so hell bent on following it and preserving it...it seems hypocritical in this instance to want to toss one part out.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: MystikMushroom

" Article I, Section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution, known as the Postal Clause or the Postal Power, empowers Congress "To establish Post Offices and post Roads".


I Doubt the Writers of the Constitution were ever Thinking when they Penned that Article , that One Day , The United States Postal Service would Cost it's Tax Payers 1 Billion Dollars a Year in Operating Expenses which were Not Reimbursed Annually due to Mismanagement and Waste .

But it's not mismanagement and waste. The USPS would be profiting 1 billion per year right now if they weren't trying to meet their Congressional imposed "fine" for retirement pensions.

a reply to: Aazadan

Very good point, the USPS would probably be more profitable than FedEx or UPS if they weren't required to fully fund pensions for the next 75 years -- something that no private letter carrier or package handling company has to do.

It almost seems like some in congress want to crush the USPS. Who knows, maybe FedEx and UPS have lobbyists pushing some members of congress to pass legislation like the pension deal to force the USPS out. Wouldn't surprise me.

a reply to: BubbaJoe

Free markets sometimes do create monopolies, has happened in the USA more than once. For the most part free markets are good, sometimes they get out of control.

Free markets have NEVER allowed a single company or cartel force an unfair price or limit the amount supplied.

NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER

This historical fact is important to me, I remember being lied to in between the lines a lot about this in particular. You are never actually told when and where the free market led to a monopoly. Because a free market monopoly never happened. The point is assumed by the fact that the government claims to fulfill a need of managing monopolies. Actually, the government has made ALL monopolies, by regulation or fear of regulation.

The term monopoly originally described a company that was given, by a government, the legal status as the only authorized business in a given industry.

The idea of "only company in an industry" and oppressively high pricing with a limited supply was propagandized by bigger central government intelligentsia. Some big Businesses found the prejudice toward corporate greed so strong that the prejudice was easy to use as a distraction. As in, any law passed to control business was good thing, no matter what the law actually did or said. As long as the law purported to be against big business, it was accepted by the congress and the press.

So now the economy suffers from millions of regulations and from the uncertainty of what new regulations may come.

The free market was already developing and adopting all of the beneficial outcomes that regulation takes credit for.

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: neo96

The USPS was created by powers given to congress by the constitution, it wasn't really ever meant to make money or profit. The USPS was supposed to help with trade and commerce, infrastructure and communication between the states. It ranked right up there with the creation of the Navy to the framers.

Mystik?

It's the 21st Century.

It had a time, and place.

We have moved so beyond it.

now that's funny, neo 96......care to apply that same logic to the 2nd amendment? or the 1st?, or the 4th?....

a reply to: jimmyx

Yeah it is funny.

Simply because there is a law that says people can't go around shooting each other.

So make more laws violating the entire bill of rights extending to the 14 amendment rights.

Why now that is perfectly acceptable.

But god forbid we get rid of a money loser like the USPS.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Aazadan

Very good point, the USPS would probably be more profitable than FedEx or UPS if they weren't required to fully fund pensions for the next 75 years -- something that no private letter carrier or package handling company has to do.

It almost seems like some in congress want to crush the USPS. Who knows, maybe FedEx and UPS have lobbyists pushing some members of congress to pass legislation like the pension deal to force the USPS out. Wouldn't surprise me.

It wouldn't surprise me.

Of all the grand economic conspiracies out there, the ones with the most evidence I've seen are the ones involving certain industries lobbying congress to destroy or suppress others. It's like every time I look to try and understand why Congress passes this ridiculous or harmful piece of legislation, or deregulates an industry, you always see some industry lobbyist quietly standing there in the shadows.

a reply to: Semicollegiate

show me a "free market"...and I'll point you to the country of Somalia...now that is a free market

a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

my signature "always follow the money"....is the FIRST PLACE I start with doing any type of research on the subject "why something happened"......so far, it has never let me down.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: jimmyx

Yeah it is funny.

Simply because there is a law that says people can't go around shooting each other.

So make more laws violating the entire bill of rights extending to the 14 amendment rights.

Why now that is perfectly acceptable.

But god forbid we get rid of a money loser like the USPS.

look, I know you hate government, you would like everything to be privatized, that doesn't hurt the wealthy

a reply to: jimmyx

If Somalia is a free market, Somalia is only free because there is no extra money for a government to confiscate.

Historically, the State followed wealth. First the wealth and then the tax.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Aazadan

Very good point, the USPS would probably be more profitable than FedEx or UPS if they weren't required to fully fund pensions for the next 75 years -- something that no private letter carrier or package handling company has to do.

It almost seems like some in congress want to crush the USPS. Who knows, maybe FedEx and UPS have lobbyists pushing some members of congress to pass legislation like the pension deal to force the USPS out. Wouldn't surprise me.

I forget where I read it but I've seen several articles that blamed the postal service 2006 act on FedEx lobbyists.

The fact is, the USPS has done an amazing job. They have low fines, their lost package rate is one of the lowest in the world for mail carriers, they're thriving despite email and sharing the market on the few documents that still get mailed, and once all this money is finally paid which they're managing to do... somewhat, they're going to have a huge competitive advantage on everyone else.

Some like to say the government needs to keep it's hands out of everything because of waste and abuse, but that's not what makes government control over something bad. It's that under government control an organization can be used as a political tool such as we saw with the IRS. The USPS has remained apolitical which means it hasn't fallen into that trap.

a reply to: Semicollegiate

Do you believe in a free market unhindered by any laws rules or regulation?

Or just different set of rules to manage said free market?

How do you propose to change our current market to a free market?

Would anything that is marketable for profit be allowed or would there be restrictions on what would be marketable in your free market?

a reply to: Semicollegiate


In a Free market should not a government be allowed to participate, i.e. the USPS?

The USPS was competitive until the prepayment of 75 years of retirement was required of it.

a "free market" is a made up phrase...the last thing any country, corporation, or company wants is a "free market".....why do you think "lobbying" is such big business....it's to stifle competition, and to gain an "edge"

a reply to: jimmyx

Yup just another talking point / buzz word, with no real meaning!

For a free market to work you would need to remove patents and copyrights and allow competition, the elite could never allow that.

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: jimmyx

Yup just another talking point / buzz word, with no real meaning!

For a free market to work you would need to remove patents and copyrights and allow competition, the elite could never allow that.

right.... and yet that phrase is still thrown around today as if it means something....

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: neo96

The USPS was created by powers given to congress by the constitution, it wasn't really ever meant to make money or profit. The USPS was supposed to help with trade and commerce, infrastructure and communication between the states. It ranked right up there with the creation of the Navy to the framers.

Mystik?

It's the 21st Century.

It had a time, and place.

We have moved so beyond it.

now that's funny, neo 96......care to apply that same logic to the 2nd amendment? or the 1st?, or the 4th?....

I can't believe I'm about to say this but Neo is right. The gov. can no longer sustain this service. Companies like FedEx have been killing them for years. The internet is even a bigger drain. Our gov't is in the process of eliminating home delivery. You know those rural boxes? They are in towns and cities now. I don't like it but I try to understand it.

originally posted by: intrepid
I can't believe I'm about to say this but Neo is right.

Huh, at the very moment I read that a winged, porcine creature flew past my window .

a reply to: AlaskanDad

The free market is like rocks at the bottom of a hill. It happens naturally when there no action against it.

The free market society will evolve, the question is how long will it take.

Ending any regulation is good, ending all of them is best.

David Gordon of the von Mises Institute said of Justice and also of the free market-- Freedom and Justice exist in the wealthiest and most powerful class, in between the members inside of that wealthiest class, which proves or at least gives an example of the natural order of society.