Volkswagen could face $18bn fine over secret device that 'intentionally cut emissions'

a reply to: TheLotLizard

If they're taking from VW $18b for an emissions standard law, then shouldn't the U.S. be using that money for their own means to reduce emissions in the country?

How? The EPA enforces regulations.

Or will the United States magically get 20 new PGA courses funded by an "anyonomous" entity.

Probably not.

18 Billion dollars can go a long way when it has a purpose.

Indeed. The 2016 EPA budget is $8.1 billion. It would be a nice windfall but you dont really think that VW will be fined the full 18 billion, do you?

I would not want to be one of the people that own one of these VWs.

Now that the government and the state of Calif know about the scam they will try to get these cars off the road by failing them the next smog check.

In Calif i have had them try to fail my truck on non emissions items during smog checks like transmission warning lights and A/C unit only because the warning system goes through emissions computer.

a reply to: ANNED

Cali has so many scams going.

a reply to: Phage

I don't think they will be fined $18 billion. My guess is $8-$10b at the most and that's still pushing it. Another settlement could be that they retrofit recalled cars with better emission parts and renew all needed smog certificates. This will hurt the consumer of these cars because that usually means a decrease in power.

I looked up quickly about where the money goes, most of the sources say that a lot of it will just go straight to the federal reserve and the other portions will get divided to the agencies involved.

But I want to hear another opinion on the matter. Where do you think theoretical $18 billion should go to?

a reply to: TheLotLizard

I looked up quickly about where the money goes, most of the sources say that a lot of it will just go straight to the federal reserve

That makes no sense. The treasury perhaps, not the federal reserve.

originally posted by: Bobaganoosh
Dude, the vehicles that are out there are very efficient. Not allowed here because of lighter frames and design. VW actually manufactured super efficient TDI diesels here in the U.S. Surprise, we exported all of them because the near 80 mpg was too efficient. More innovation stifled by beurocrasy.

Those lighter frames also make the cars far more deadly in a crash. The reason our cars are less fuel efficient is because the components to make them safer when things do go wrong are heavy.

originally posted by: CovertAgenda
a reply to: Pluginn

VW should just reclassify them as 'light trucks' and they would slip under the EPA's radar.

Chicken Tax

en.wikipedia.org...

VW just needs to purchase some carbon credits from Al Gore, problem solved.

originally posted by: opethPA
Okay great, 18b is excessive..still the only person or business to blame for this is VW.

Don't want to risk an excessive fine then how about you don't try and cheat the system.

You are here taking up for a system that is designed to pollute the earth while giving people a warm fuzzy feeling inside. Every aspect of fuel consumption has been designed to use as much fuel as possible and the so called emmisions control systems are only used to deal with the excess 80% of fuel that is purposefully pumped into every engine.

Aaaand it goes right down the crapper.. 11.000.000 cars maybe..

Do you own a car (Audi, VW, nearly whatever ) with a EA 189-engine? Well, I don't know, too.

But it seems to be the workhorse in most of VWs huge variety of diesel-powered cars.. This will be huge, guys. Huge. And immensely ugly for VW!

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: opethPA
Okay great, 18b is excessive..still the only person or business to blame for this is VW.

Don't want to risk an excessive fine then how about you don't try and cheat the system.

You are here taking up for a system that is designed to pollute the earth while giving people a warm fuzzy feeling inside. Every aspect of fuel consumption has been designed to use as much fuel as possible and the so called emmisions control systems are only used to deal with the excess 80% of fuel that is purposefully pumped into every engine.

It's funny because I can't find a single post I made on this thread where I am "taking up for a system"

What I said was if VW didn't want to possibly pay such a high fine then perhaps they shouldnt have tried to cheat the system. If you read that as me defending that fine then more power to you..

I know it's taboo for many posters on ATS to ever hold anyone accountable unless it involves blaming the police, the CIA , Obama or America.

That person over there just shot 4 people, it's the fault of the police man who pulled him over the other day because it's a police state here! Ignore the fact that the idiot driver ran a stop sign..

That company may have to pay an 18 billion dollar fine because America is the devil spawn of the 1%. Ignore the fact that the company in question tried to willfully cheat the system

a reply to: opethPA

Still seems biased, never before an american company had similar fines I think, correct me if I'm wrong. Nobody got killed really... GM killed many and didn't even confess their errors, saying they where wrong and nobody got fired and the fine was peanuts.
Yet VW right away they don't tolerate this, saying they are wrong right away! Yet their fine is many many many times more.. (most likely).

Which company doesn't cheat in some way? or tries to, escaping taxes you name it.

Sure a fine is in order but this 18 billion could become even bigger, it's not just the fine and other nations could also come up with fines.. it could be very well VW days are over, the biggest world car maker. And this doesn't same like a fair sentence at all.

Look at BP how much they had to pay (yet while the fault was with very likely with an american company's (Halliburton)(! , Exxon did something similar before and got away wit again peanuts compared.

And now after all these years they found this cheat, which was ongoing for a long time.. they should have waited even a few more years for more money..

The EU just likes #ing this hooker called the US, sadly which cost way more then it's worth but sure this is my opinion and belief but in the last years only becomes stronger and stronger...

Also with the wars the US started, millions died (ok most inderectly but it's ongoing and no end in sight) and total chaos.. and this money goes to the US treasury (vw fine), the US should be fined to the heavens. Using the same standards and justice...

a reply to: Pluginn

So you don't think they deserve a fine for what they did? Are you opposed to clean air standards?

a reply to: opethPA
Yes I should have said indirect support of a system that looks like a monkey designed it.

After learning the dirty little secrets of fuel injection it just leaves me wondering how they get away with it.

I am amazed that people are not all over Honeywell for this. Honeywell makes the turbochargers and the sensors and software that measure the output. It is absolutely inconceivable that Honeywell sold that many turbochargers and didn't know what the actual output was, and more importantly, whether that output met with the desired specifications.

The amount of testing that goes into delivering a product like that is immense. I cant believe that Honeywell was completely in the dark about the output of their own turbochargers. It just isn't possible.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: opethPA
Yes I should have said indirect support of a system that looks like a monkey designed it.
After learning the dirty little secrets of fuel injection it just leaves me wondering how they get away with it.

Still trying to find out where I supported the system either directly or indirectly.

What I said was if VW didn't want to possibly pay an excessive fine then perhaps they shouldn't have tried to cheat the system.

For all those here refusing to blame VW but rather the EPA or America or anyone but who caused the issue....



"Let's be clear about this. Our company was dishonest. With the EPA, and the California Air Resources Board, and with all of you. And in my German words, we have totally screwed up," the head of Volkswagen's U.S. division, Michael Horn, said Monday while unveiling a new Passat model in New York."

or this from the CEO....

" CEO Martin Winterkorn apologized for the deception under his leadership and pledged a fast and thorough investigation, but gave no indication that he might resign.

Millions of people across the world trust our brands, our cars, and our technologies," Winterkorn said Tuesday in a video message. "I am endlessly sorry that we have disappointed this trust. I apologize in every way to our customers, to authorities, and the whole public for the wrongdoing."


VW Issue

originally posted by: opethPA

For all those here refusing to blame VW but rather the EPA or America or anyone but who caused the issue....


"Let's be clear about this. Our company was dishonest. With the EPA, and the California Air Resources Board, and with all of you. And in my German words, we have totally screwed up," the head of Volkswagen's U.S. division, Michael Horn, said Monday while unveiling a new Passat model in New York."

Farfromtruthing.

a reply to: opethPA

the system should be abused if we want to really stop pollution.

definitely wan not meaning to single you out personally

the system is designed to waste fuel at the highest rate possible

I feel that any support for following the rules in this case is unknowingly immoral

I will soon prove it

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: opethPA
the system should be abused if we want to really stop pollution.
definitely wan not meaning to single you out personally
the system is designed to waste fuel at the highest rate possible
I feel that any support for following the rules in this case is unknowingly immoral
I will soon prove it

While the rules may not be something you agree with this seems pretty damning for what VW did..they tried to abuse the system and got caught...

"Only then did VW acknowledge that the software switches its engines to a cleaner mode during official emissions testing. The "defeat device" then switches off again, giving the cars more power while emitting as much as 40 times the legal pollution limit during actual driving, the EPA said."