The right’s Planned Parenthood trap: Manufactured controversies, pliant Democrats...

originally posted by: pavil
I'm pro choice to a point. Don't want to have kids, fine. I don't have issues with birth control. Hell, I think healthcare should cover that. However once you concive, then it's different. Unless in medically necessary or rape/incest situations, abortion shouldn't be the prefered option.

I certainly never said it was the preferred option either. In fact I would say it should be considered as the last option if for no other reason than the fact that it is final. Once you make that choice that's it and no other choice matters past it.

But you can see how we aren't that different actually. We simply exist on different points on the decision scale. I too have my opinions about where the line should be drawn, what is the best choice and what I personally would do just like you. The main difference is I also admit that those are MY opinions alone and don't expect that everyone is going to agree with me nor that MY opinions carry any greater significance than theirs on this subject. In fact, as a male, it's not even a choice I would ever have to make. So for me to force others, especially a woman, to go along with MY opinion wouldn't be right for me to do. Nor is it right for anyone else to do either which is why I say it should be THEIR CHOICE what to do.

Don't want to have kids, make sure you can't. Its pretty easy to do that nowadays. Unplanned pregnancies can be drastically reduced and prevented but once the seeds of a human germinate, who is anyone to say "you don't get to live" Who knows what great discoveries or leaders have vanished that way.

Who knows how many murderers and rapists could have also been avoided??? Hypothetical examples can go both ways as you can see so it's really a moot point to try and make.

As far as deciding who get's to say whether someone lives or dies I would agree, but this happens every day but with total disregard. Many of the same people who are anti-choice are also pro war which kills uncountable numbers of innocent people including children but they aren't given the same attention. Why not??? It's a double standard so when I hear such arguments I just laugh them off. Not because I don't care about the people killed, I simply find the argument to be hypocritical and silly. These people don't really give a damn about peoples lives, they just like pushing a certain agenda and I'm not falling for it. I see through their game which causes me to lose respect for them and their argument completely.

Maybe that clears things up. Probably not.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: StoutBroux
there is only a few circumstance where taxpayer money pays for abortions, like when the mother's health is at risk... even with the obama care, the gov't funds were subsidizing health insurance, not abortions. obamacare was a confusing mess when it was implemented, and yes, some of the insurance comapanies messed up and didn't follow the guidelines when it came to the coverage for abortions.

but, well outside of that mistake and the times when intervention is needed for the mother's health, just where is federal money being used for abortions...

and, the no federal funds was not a promise by obama, it is a law!

Prove it. I know for a fact that is completely false OPINION.

Out of the blue, I chose a couple of locations to give you an idea of what's really out there.

Western PA

www.plannedparenthood.org...

No-Cost Programs
Title X program

PPWP provides free services for teens ages 17 and under. For women and men over age 17, fees for services are based on your household income and may be free.

Sliding Fee Scale

If you are uninsured but don't qualify for free services through Title X, you may be eligible for a reduced fee based on your income. You will not be turned away because of your inability to pay

*snip*

PPWP accepts most major insurance carriers and HMOs.

PPWP accepts the following forms of payment: cash, money order, MasterCard, American Express and VISA. PPWP offers limited financial assistance for both abortion methods. Call us at 412.562.1900 or 1.800.426.4636 to find out if we can help you!

Seattle WA

Abortion services may be covered by your insurance. If you want to use your insurance, please be sure to bring in your insurance information at the time of your visit.

If you are uninsured, you may be eligible to receive financial assistance for your procedure. You can confidentially find out if you qualify by calling us at 800.769.0045. If you are eligible for financial assistance, you may be asked to bring documentation with you to the health center. - See more at: www.plannedparenthood.org...

Don't tell me you actually think personnel at these locations take pay cuts for services just because someone is low income.

It's every woman's right to have an abortion, at any stage. Just don't use tax payer money.

a reply to: StoutBroux

no, I think people and corporations donate money to them.....

www.plannedparenthood.org...


But well, if I have to prove that planned parenthood isn't using funds for abortions, something I can't, but there sure has been a heck of a lot of audits over the past decade or so that have failed to prove that they are...
well, then I think you should prove that all those "faith based" funds aren't being used in error...

White House Fails to Reveal Faith-Based Initiative Budget, Though Some Agencies Will Share Theirs
www.politicalresearch.org... qwDDGt0.dpbs

Then there is the issue of religious influence. During his candidacy, Obama promised that the grant money would not be used to proselytize or discriminate against the people it was supposedly designed to help. But this promised restraint on the part of federal-funded religious groups never materialized. Abstinence-only and Responsible Fatherhood initiatives continue to secure millions in federal dollars. These in turn fund anti-choice crisis pregnancy centers and anti-LGBTQ organizations like the Children’s AIDS Fund, which advocates ex-gay therapy. Unfortunately, as investigative journalist Andy Kopsa found, “an entire federally funded evangelical economy took root during the Bush years, and under Obama it continues to thrive.”
See more at: www.politicalresearch.org... qwDDGt0.dpuf

gee, I don't see any reason to not fund planned parenthood if we are funding abstinence only and anti-choice crisis centers do you??

a reply to: muse7

And do not force taxpayers into paying for an organization not provided for in the Constitution. It really is that simple.

originally posted by: cardinalfan0596

And do not force taxpayers into paying for an organization not provided for in the Constitution. It really is that simple.

The constitution does not provide for the organization of our military either. The entire Military Industrial Complex by your criteria should also be defunded as well. Imagine how many lives that would save??

a reply to: mOjOm

Actually, the Constitution does provide for a military. And, I would be happy to go back to a Department of War and a Department of the Navy.

a reply to: openmind102

Selling human parts, baby, adult, fetus or otherwise is repulsive...and illegal.

Do your homework.

originally posted by: cardinalfan0596
a reply to: mOjOm

Actually, the Constitution does provide for a military. And, I would be happy to go back to a Department of War and a Department of the Navy.

Is there an amendment for that??? I thought it was only for a militia but not a standing army??

originally posted by: M5xaz
a reply to: openmind102

Selling human parts, baby, adult, fetus or otherwise is repulsive...and illegal.

Do your homework.

It's allowed for medical research as long as it's not for profit I thought???

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: M5xaz
a reply to: openmind102

Selling human parts, baby, adult, fetus or otherwise is repulsive...and illegal.

Do your homework.

It's allowed for medical research as long as it's not for profit I thought???

Sure.
But the comment made by one of the PP "doctors" "I wanna buy a Lamborghini" should be a real clue to you that this is for PROFIT, not research, and illegal.

As well as MASSIVELY repulsive.....

The problem is not just the abortions........

It s not just the fact that tax dollars may or may not be used

Its not just the selling of the baby parts

Its not just the BUTCHERING of innocence.......

but its the fact that they are SELLING these monthers on the idea of doing this, so they can make money

I have a very very ignorant friend, admittedly, who went in for an abortion 3 yrs ago because she was raped......

The PP person actually told her "children of rape , statistics have proven, will more than likely grow up to be rapists"

When i first heard this years ago, I thought there was no way she said that, after seeing the storys coming out and how they SELL the act of the abortion?

I believe it.........

THIS is a HUGE problem

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: cardinalfan0596
a reply to: mOjOm

Actually, the Constitution does provide for a military. And, I would be happy to go back to a Department of War and a Department of the Navy.

Is there an amendment for that??? I thought it was only for a militia but not a standing army??

It specifically mentions a navy and a militia that can be called up. Modern day interpretations though have held that it's referring to standing forces in general. For instance an Air Force isn't Constitutional but it's quite important to the nation to have one.

This part is how you can interpret there being a standing army

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States,

The manufactured controversy of Planned Parenthood is going to bite the right wingers where it hurts.

They decided, based on false evidence on doctored videos, that they wanted to create a huge scandal around Planned Parenthood.

Now, here's why this is such a huge problem for them. They, and Democrats, know that they'll never get enough votes to overcome a Presidential veto, but will focus on this for every bill that comes before Congress.

Like their ridiculous attempts at defunding and overturning Obamacare. This is going to bite them.

Democrats KNOW that Republicans will never get enough votes to pass any of this, and also know that when the shutdown comes, the American public will blame Republicans for the shutdown.

Therefore, Democrats will continue to let Republicans debate ridiculous options that will never pass, while they refuse to debate something that is going to need major attention in the next week without the bit of it they want to pass that will never pass.

Democrats are laughing all the way to the voting station.

This is definitely a case of a manufactured scandal that has now come full circle back on the people who tried to manufacture it.

originally posted by: M5xaz
Sure.
But the comment made by one of the PP "doctors" "I wanna buy a Lamborghini" should be a real clue to you that this is for PROFIT, not research, and illegal.

As well as MASSIVELY repulsive.....

They were investigated and found to not be making a profit though. That one statement alone without context and from highly edited recording from ambush journalism activists who are known to lie in the past means nothing. I'd have to at least know what the context is about. Just because someone wants to buy a Lamborghini doesn't mean anything. Hell, I'd like to buy one too, does that mean I'm going to break the law to do it??? (maybe)

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: StoutBroux

no, I think people and corporations donate money to them.....

www.plannedparenthood.org...


But well, if I have to prove that planned parenthood isn't using funds for abortions, something I can't, but there sure has been a heck of a lot of audits over the past decade or so that have failed to prove that they are...
well, then I think you should prove that all those "faith based" funds aren't being used in error...

White House Fails to Reveal Faith-Based Initiative Budget, Though Some Agencies Will Share Theirs
www.politicalresearch.org... qwDDGt0.dpbs

Then there is the issue of religious influence. During his candidacy, Obama promised that the grant money would not be used to proselytize or discriminate against the people it was supposedly designed to help. But this promised restraint on the part of federal-funded religious groups never materialized. Abstinence-only and Responsible Fatherhood initiatives continue to secure millions in federal dollars. These in turn fund anti-choice crisis pregnancy centers and anti-LGBTQ organizations like the Children’s AIDS Fund, which advocates ex-gay therapy. Unfortunately, as investigative journalist Andy Kopsa found, “an entire federally funded evangelical economy took root during the Bush years, and under Obama it continues to thrive.”
See more at: www.politicalresearch.org... qwDDGt0.dpuf

gee, I don't see any reason to not fund planned parenthood if we are funding abstinence only and anti-choice crisis centers do you??

According to the CDC, 984,000 abortions took place in 2013. 18% from teens. So about 177,000 to teens. Also, •The abortion rate of women with Medicaid coverage is three times as high as that of other women (NAF). •Only 12% of women included a physical problem with their health among reasons for having an abortion (NAF).

•One per cent (of aborting women) reported that they were the survivors of rape (NAF).

•17 states (AK, AZ, CA, CT, HI, IL, MA, MD, MN, MT, NJ, NM, NY, OR, VT, WA and WV) use public funds to pay for abortions for some poor women. About 14% of all abortions in the United States are paid for with public funds—virtually all from the state (AGI).


www.abort73.com...

a reply to: StoutBroux

and how does that prove that federal tax dollars are paying for any of these abortions?

here is a list of funding, raised by donations, that is available to help financially women who can't afford the abortion she wants...

www.fundabortionnow.org...

PP goes hog wild on donations to politicians.

Planned Parenthood -- Among Federal Candidates, 2014 Cycle

Big "D" Hmmm.