Study into folklore shows a 7000yr old link to the past.

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: punkinworks10

Thank you punkinworks, that would be brilliant.

enjoy the reading ,
Let me know how the drop box works out, it is the first time I've used it.
And I have just gone through most of my pdf s
and catagorized them and I've got at a few you might be interested in so ill pass them along

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: Anaana

Thank you very much, Anaana. This is a geography that I know absolutely nothing about, so it's great to hear from everyone here that Nunn's research is really just a small link in an already strong chain.
I've just bought Oppenheimer's book from Amazon (for £7 I should add - a bargain) and I'm really looking forward to reading it.

You're very welcome. It is a dense book but accessible none the less, so definately a bargain!

Just to clarify (I checked another book, After the Ice by Stephen Mithen) the dates of the sea level rise as for haste I went with the end of LGM which put me a couple of thousand years out. 9600 BCE is the date given by Mithen (I'm a poet!) for the rise. This would also have coincided with a major climatic change to tropical. Prior to that, the Australia was linked to Papua New Guinea by land (or very shallow, easily navigable waters). From 9600 to 6000 BCE the sea levels rose by 100 meters.

AMM reached Australia around 50000 years ago (at current estimates, some suggest 60-65000). The following map gives an indication of the routes taken and therefore you can get some idea of how low sea levels, between 75,000 and 15,000 years ago facilitated that expansion and an adaptation to living in littoral zones that had us coast hugging all the way the Australia. We could only do that because sea levels dropped sufficiently to enable the Southern gate of the Red Sea to be passable.

The see levels can rise and fall on their own, but that cannot be true, I paid Al Gore $19.99 and he told me that it was CO2 that causes see level change. This means, these stories prove the lost civilization theory How else could Earth have Climate Change and have the oceans rise if people were not polluting the Earth.

originally posted by: thinline
The see levels can rise and fall on their own, but that cannot be true, I paid Al Gore $19.99 and he told me that it was CO2 that causes see level change. This means, these stories prove the lost civilization theory How else could Earth have Climate Change and have the oceans rise if people were not polluting the Earth.

Where do you think all the ice goes every time the ice age relents ?

a reply to: punkinworks10

It worked really well, I just signed up (Ms Bean Sidhe ), downloaded them and saved them onto my computer. Thank you so much for that P, I'm halfway through the first one and enjoying it very much. It's a great service, I didn't even know it existed.

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: punkinworks10

It worked really well, I just signed up (Ms Bean Sidhe

), downloaded them and saved them onto my computer. Thank you so much for that P, I'm halfway through the first one and enjoying it very much. It's a great service, I didn't even know it existed.

Nice,
im am going to eventually get my whole library on it, still have a couple hundred to go through and re-title from the random download title codes. I spent 6 hr yesterday going through pdfs.

a reply to: Anaana

Yes, I can't wait! I love reading (and bargains ) so looking forward to his book coming soon.

When you see the land routes that no longer exist to us, and you hear of Nunn et al's research (and more from punkinwork's links) of stories that are ancient -truly ancient - you can put more faith into the notion that the shared motifs that we have across cultures could be exactly what they appear to be: shared stories, as opposed to coincidental common motifs.

a reply to: beansidhe
If I may add a little levity to the concept...it's exactly the same. Except it's Canada. And Inuit. And 175 years ago.
But you get the point, eh?

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck



And that is exactly what I'm saying here. Except they were much funnier and said it in 2 mins! I must be quite infantile, but I can't stop laughing at the place names!

Thank you, Johnny!

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

And that is exactly what I'm saying here. Except they were much funnier and said it in 2 mins! I must be quite infantile, but I can't stop laughing at the place names!
Thank you, Johnny!

My pleasure...it's funny, and Inuktitut is that kind of language. Mind you, some years ago, I attended a presentation by an Ojibwa Elder, in which he related that his peoples oral history speaks of the coming of the Ice Age. All of a sudden, with new manners of physical dating technology...he doesn't sound quite so silly! And as an archaeologist, I do get chided for not listening to the stories. The times they are a changin', though.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
in which he related that his peoples oral history speaks of the coming of the Ice Age. All of a sudden, with new manners of physical dating technology...he doesn't sound quite so silly! .

Are you talking about the current ice age that we are still in that began at the start of the Pleistocene 2.6 million years ago or the 20th Century Fox animated movie ?
en.wikipedia.org...


I think if his claim has any truth to it that he was more likely talking about the arrival of his people in the Arctic circle about 1000 years ago

a reply to: beansidhe

the scientists should note that aboriginal time flows out of dreamtime, not a linear progression. it was as if some ancient greek rationalist neo-anthropologist were interpreting the flows and eddies of dreamtime in hyper-linear terms. all myth does not portray TIME, but images-reality elsewise as well. if there is ONE thing the aboriginies were NOT, it was linear timewise.

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: Anaana

Yes, I can't wait! I love reading (and bargains

) so looking forward to his book coming soon.

When you see the land routes that no longer exist to us, and you hear of Nunn et al's research (and more from punkinwork's links) of stories that are ancient -truly ancient - you can put more faith into the notion that the shared motifs that we have across cultures could be exactly what they appear to be: shared stories, as opposed to coincidental common motifs.

I may have just made this term up, but for me, it is all about identifying the deseminating nodes of technology and information. Places like Australia and the Americas are particularly useful because they help us to understand what happens when human populations are cut off from those nodes. Human migrations are better understood as a process of leap frogging, that leaves behind it a network of nodes that enables information to run back and forth, just like any other network, over time some connections are supplanted by more efficient routes, or due to longer term environmental conditions, may prove itself unsustainable and a new node established to break the link.

It was by no means a rapid means of communication, more a sharing and exchanging, showing and passing it along if it proved workable. Stories can be seen both as technology and information in themselves but also as conveyors of technological information. I think it is only when we speeded up that process with sea travel, and met ourselves coming back, that we were thrust into this illusion of difference.

a reply to: bangster

the scientists should note that aboriginal time flows out of dreamtime, not a linear progression. it was as if some ancient greek rationalist neo-anthropologist were interpreting the flows and eddies of dreamtime in hyper-linear terms. all myth does not portray TIME, but images-reality elsewise as well. if there is ONE thing the aboriginies were NOT, it was linear timewise.

Not being familiar with the stories themselves, I can only surmise that the stories didn't mention any linear time at all; it was only when Nunn began to gather the data from 21 different areas that he noticed that they all contained similar themes of the sea coming in and claiming the land. Nunn viewed them from his own, Western, perspective and realised that they could all reflect a real event albeit 7000 yrs ago. That's my take on his study, but I take your point that they may not relate to that at all.

a reply to: Anaana

I think you have made that term up and all credit to you, because it's perfect.

Look at this tech-node from the Silk Road:

If Persian walnut trees could talk, they might tell of the numerous traders who moved along the Silk Roads' thousands of miles over thousands of years, carrying among their valuable merchandise the seeds that would turn into the mighty walnut forests that are spread across Asia.

Purdue University research shows that ancient languages match up with the genetic codes found in Persian walnut (Juglans regia) forests, suggesting that the stands of trees seen today may be remnants of the first planned afforestation known in the world.

In a paper published in the journal PLoS One, Keith Woeste, a research geneticist for the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Forest Service and a Purdue adjunct assistant professor of forestry, found that the evolution of language and spread of walnut forests overlapped over wide swaths of Asia over thousands of years. He believes as traders traversed the Silk Roads, connecting Eastern Europe and Africa with far-East Asia, they purposely planted walnut forests as a long-term agricultural investment.

archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.co.uk...

A visual desemination node from over 2000 years ago - a living factory for traders, all with the same story. I thought that was a gorgeous story.

I think it is only when we speeded up that process with sea travel, and met ourselves coming back, that we were thrust into this illusion of difference.

As the land has receded we think have receded too maybe? We're too fast now, too clever, but maybe not clever enough to slow down and listen - carefully - to old, old stories and look for the truth in them.
I had a fascinating conversation one evening with a particularly lovely ATS member, and we wondered 'what if the stories we have came from even earlier sources? What if some of our stories came from Neanderthals and we are still telling them, in roughly the same form, and priding ourselves on our modern thinking?'

Do we not trust ourselves to remember? It seems a bit like that, sometimes.

dissemination

a reply to: Marduk

Hmm, deseminating is doing something else.
Not appropriate in a walnut forest, although, on second thoughts, probably quite nice on a misty, walnutty evening.

originally posted by: beansidheI had a fascinating conversation one evening with a particularly lovely ATS member, and we wondered 'what if the stories we have came from even earlier sources? What if some of our stories came from Neanderthals and we are still telling them,

In Ancient Mesopotamian religion, Humbaba surnamed the Terrible, was a monstrous giant of immemorial age raised by Utu, the Sun. Humbaba was the guardian of the Cedar Forest, where the gods lived, by the will of the god Enlil, who "assigned [Humbaba] as a terror to human beings."

en.wikipedia.org...

The Cedars of God (Arabic: أرز الربّ‎ Horsh Arz el-Rab "Cedars of the Lord") is one of the last vestiges of the extensive forests of the Cedars of Lebanon that thrived across Mount Lebanon in ancient times.

en.wikipedia.org...

archeological site where remains or tools of Neanderthals were found.
Ksar Akil (Lebanon)

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Marduk

That's some post!

Neanderthals disappeared about 40,000 years ago, Nunn looks at stories from 7-10,000 years ago, Cinrad mentioned a story which is supposedly 20,000 years old - is it really such a stretch that we could double that last figure and link back to Neanderthal 'culture'? Were they our gods? Or our giants?
I wonder if there is a correlation between giant stories and neanderthal sites?

Great post, Australia's first people almost be would uniquely positioned to have long memories given their Island continent's isolation for long periods of time, newcomers would be far and few for thousands of yrs ,earlier Slayer produced this excellent thread.
Ten Ancient Stories and the Geological Events That May Have Inspired Them
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I added some info that the ancient people knew that the lake was formed by a meteor, the problem I have is the extreme dating

The Dogon knew, in the 1940’s, that Lake Bosumtwi was formed by a meteor impact and they described it in great detail including the direction and angle of entry of the meteor. Modern geologists, however, did not even seriously speculate that the lake was formed by a meteor impact until 1979 largely because it is situated in a dense jungle forest that limited access to the lake. (see omzg.sscc.ru... ). The debate went back and forth for years as to whether or not the lake was formed by an impact until recent evidence positively confirmed its meteor origins dated to 1.07 million years ago.

1.07 million yrs ago we were hardly humans.
I think it's more likely that they worked out the reasons behind the creation of the crater than witnessed it , how long ago did they worked out an impact meteor , that all depends on how long they were in West Africa.