How 666 can read "Usama" or be a ref. to st. Paul; backwards engineering the Apocalypse

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

A book can describe itself, it has words. The Bible is such a book that defines itself, unlike a rock. I won't even bother with your other points, you'll just talk around them like you always do, because you refuse to let the Bible speak for itself.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

If the bible interprets itself then there would be no division within Christendom, but as we have it it is the most divided religion on Earth. The bible does not interpret itself, the idea is ridiculous. Describe and interpret are two different words with two different meanings. Interpreting is to draw out meaning from what is described.

Paul has all the markings of the antichrist. The connections are too numerous to ignore. I have outlined them in several threads and posts in this forum, as have others. You choose to ignore them just as you ignored my points now. You can't ignore them forever.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The Bible both describes and interprets itself without the aid of outside human philosophy. I'm sorry, but you just can't comprehend what you don't want to know. As much as you like to comment on my words, you'll never truely understand what I'm saying. I wish I could somehow related it to you.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So who has the true interpretation out of the over 20,000 different ones? If the bible interprets itself it's doing a piss poor job of relaying the message to the people because they can't decide on what it's trying to say.

Let me guess, YOU have the correct interpretation? Every Christian believes that, so your chances of being "the one" is at best 20,000:1.

How does the bible interpret itself? Who are the ones receiving this interpretation? And why are there so many different interpretations out there by Christian denominations? Is this the best the word of God can do?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

"The Number of the Beast which Is The Number of a Man" is generally reckoned to be Nero Caesar - especially since the book was probably circulating by 69 CE.

Aleph = 1 Beth = 2 Gimmel = 3 Daled = 4 He = 5 Vav = 6 Tsayin = 7 Khet = 8 Dtet = 9 Yod = 10 Kaph = 20 Lamed = 30 Mem= 30
Nun = 50 Samek = 60 'Qayin = 70 Phe = 80 Tsadeh = 90 Quph = 100 Resh = 200 Shin/Sin = 300 Tav = 400

NRON QSR = 666 (Nun, Resh, Vav, Resh, Nun Quph, Samek, Resh)

and NRO QSR = 616 missing the final Nun in Neron (alternative spelling)

Gemmatria was employed at Qumran (BCE 300 - 68 CE) among the Dead Sea Covenanters ('sons of Zadok') so by AD 69 it would have been well knkown among clergy within all the Judaisms floating around in those days.

Not sure if this 616/666 has been discussed before, just my $.02

Hang in there...

a reply to: Sigismundus

I've been reading a bit of Shlomo Gandz since yesterday, in his book «Studies in Hebrew Astronomy and Mathmatics» (hardcore stuff) and he mentions a few other names adding up to the number(s) of the beast (he mentions the two Nero ones you provided also), the Hebrew name of תסור «Tsur» i.e. an alternate spelling of Heb. צר the island-state Tyrus or Tyre (lit. 'a rock' or 'a cliff', compare with Gr. Petros vs Petra much the same, only in Greek) off the coast of Judea, adds up to 666. Sounds plausible. Another solution he mentions is the Lat. name «Gaius Caesar» which when written in Greek sums up to 616: Gr. ΓΑΙΟΣ ΚΑΙΣΑΡ. Gaius Julius Caesar died in 2 AD, 24 years old before he could ascend the throne after Augustus. Lucius, his brother also died in young age, which made Augustus' stepson Tiberius heir to the throne of nearly the whole known world. Of course, the throne really belonged to Jesus Julius Caesar AKA Isai ha Nazaree bar David or Jesus Christ. I think Jesus was crucified after having paraded as King of the Jews in the chaos that ensued as Tiberius was dead or dying around Passover in 36 AD. «King of the Jews» was a title held by Caesar, and Caesars don't like the idea(s) of rivals. Crucifying Jesus was probably the last thing Pilate did before being called back to Rome to be replaced by some other bastard.

The Latin name (as seen in Tacitus and elsewhere) Trio (lit. 'three', or 'group of three') also adds up to 616, it is written same as Heb. תריו «TheRIoU» (ת''ריו is 616 written as Hebrew numerals the way they would write it in the time of John) for Gr. genitive noun θηρίου («Theriou» 'of the Beast' - genitive of Gr. θηρίον «Therion») transliterated into Hebrew or written with Hebrew letters. In the Greek texts of NT the genitive form Gr. θηρίου is used 16 times, all in Revelation and half of them in chapter 13. Added the number of the beast, which would have to be written in Hebrew letters, there are a total of 17, the second number of infamy in the Apocalypse, as in seven heads and ten horns.

Revelation 13:18 This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is.... the beast's (italics by me). It is the midrash of Revelation and very similar to how Jews have treated the Tetragrammaton up through the years.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Good stuff...the name GAIUS is also the historical name for the Emperor Caligula (see the Loeb Classical Series) since Caligula ("Little Booties") is a nickname not a praenomen, so the Greek of GAIUS CAESAR would work as a 616 as you suggested - either way we're talking about a Roman emperor some time between 54 CE and 69 CE...taking the praeterist approach of course !

a reply to: Sigismundus

Yes, I left out Caligula, but you are correct. However. I think it is «Jesus» the Roman narrated son of God who died and came back to life. And I believe Jesus was the secret son of Caesarion, that Joseph was a cover for Caesarion alluding to «The Prince of Egypt» (Joseph, son of Jacob) son of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra VII Ptolomy («He's got the whole world in his hands...»). His body was never produced after he allegedly were killed in 30 BC on orders from Octavian, shortly after his mother was killed by forced suicide.

==> If you transliterate Jesus into Hebrew it reads Heb. ישוש which adds up to 616 and is nearly identical to the Tetragrammaton only with hissing sounds instead of breath (looks like a lamb, but sounds like a dragon) compare ישוש (Jesus) and יהוה (Javeh).

Jesus is the Latin form for Heb. «Isai» ( — why would David call his son lord? Because his name was Isai, same as David's father — ) and other Hebrew names like Joshua, Hosea and others. The Latin name «Jesus» represents the «Imperial Christ» and organised religion, but most of all it is representative of ROME (the Beast, «IESVS» who rose from the dead, the Beast of the abyss), as compared to Isai the political Judean dissident and renegade rabbi in opposition to Rome and the Jewish elite. And given he was indeed Caesarion's son he was the legal heir to nearly the entire civilised world at the time, and the greatest threat to the Augusti and the Herodians alive. All the pieces fall into place. Jesus Caesar. Taste it for a moment. Some wine?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet [Isaiah] [ESV] Matthew 1:21-22

Jesus was destined to be the father of the Messiah, not the Messiah himself, but as a firstborn «son of David» Messiah was sort of his title. What is interesting is that Jesus was named after Heb. ישעיה «Isaiah» as shown above, not after Isaiah's son whose name was Immanuel. Isaiah was named after David's father Heb. ישי «Isai» or Eng. Jesse. Like I referred to in my former post, Jesus makes riddled jokes about being a bar-David, since he was surnamed after his mother whom the Gospel says was a bat-David a daughter of David [Luke 1:27, Mary is the one of David's seed here, comp. w/ Matthew 1:20, Joseph was also a bar-David]. Jesus' name would most likely be Jesse bar David, and his riddle goes:

“How can they say that the Christ [Messiah, king of the Jews] is David’s son [bar-David, his surname, also the surnames of both his parents]? For David himself says in the Book of Psalms, “‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”’ David thus calls him Lord, so how is he his son?” [ESV] Luke 20:41-44

— Because his name was Jesse, see? «Son of David» was «the father of David», or, «the lord [Isai, the father] said to my [David's] lord [Isai, the Messiah]: Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool....

A terribly dry joke, but still, the guy had mojo. Besides, being surnamed bat/bar-David in the time of Jesus, would most likely make a mamzer out of you, and the subject of bullying, ridicule, contempt, rumours and fights. Hence the lamb of God allusion and the weight of the cross parallells. The passion. The sacrifice. It all sums up somehow.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I think that you can adapt the tetragrammaton YHWH to have an added SHIN in the middle to produce YH Sh WH which produces the Aramaic Yehoshua, a literary pun on the phrase "and I shall place my name in him' (Exod 23:21)

Exod 23:20-21 “Behold, I am sending a Messenger ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared. You will pay attention to him and listen to what he says and not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him."

The Messenger (sort of a mixture of prophet & angel) has Messianic connotations in the Dead Sea Scrolls and has a bearing on the name YH SH WH as having YHWH's name in his name..the context originally in taking back the 'holy land' from the occupying Kittim...

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a reply to: Sigismundus

Anyway, it doesn't really matter, the guy died ages ago and there's not much we can add, other than carrying his seed, what ever kind you'd be carrying. It might be a spark or a bottle of Scotch, just never show up empty-handed. The good lord doesn't like that. When you're naked, fixed up there to the post, you still might have knowledge, but trust me, you may lose that too, so make sure to have plenty, and be an asset, someone needed. Know how to make ink from milk and charcoal, how to make fire without a lighter. Know how to build a simple still, and learn how to make tools and build a basic metal workshop, be one hell of a drummer and know how to tell a story. When you're good as dead, there may still be one hell of a laugh left if you failed science class and have two left feet, and it might save lives. When you read Jesus backwards in Norwegian, you wish for the rest of your life you hadn't. Never knew Jesus could bite his tail. Now I know.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Gematria is not a Biblical tradition.

Care to explain «the writing on the wall» in Daniel without magic squares and gematria? Gematria can be traced back several centuries BC and was widely used in the time of Jesus and the Simons and the Johns. Besides, Revelation is hardly a very biblical book, though it wraps it up quite elegantly.

Maybe in the Kabalah, Zohar, or Talmud it is, but the only verse that vaguely resembles gematria is in Revelation, and its misunderstood.

Your counting sheep doesn't make any sense. Beast is Jesus, slain to cover for your arse, wakes up three days later after having been in the bottomless pit, so, Jesus ascending from the bottomless pit. Or how about Jesus written in Hebrew letters, ישוש, looks familiar? And the sum? 616. 616 written according to Hebrew numbering, is ת''ריו, read out as a word, it says Theriou, that is «of the beast» or simply «the Beat's» in Greek transliteration. Equals 616, that is the numbers written in their simplest form in Hebrew. Riddle is simple enough. Number of the Beast, is «the Beast's». And it is solved for all I care. Wanna cheap tattoo? An evening star perhaps?

My Phone Number Reads 666 whilst When dialed It Makes The Sign Of The Cross.
I Am The Beast. My name Is Doval! Not devil.

a reply to: Pinocchio

Well done, prentice. Summon the name, or write the magic number that stands for the name, make the calling, say the magic word: Hullo?