Common Problem Conspiracy - yes, it's about the migrants in Europe

[Mods, you have a US political madness forum, I think it's high time you had a European one as well because the lunatics running our asylum are doing much crazier things, and causing much more damage than the rest of the world put together]

I think I'm like a lot of people in that I'm watching with disbelief the invasion of Europe by people from all over the Middle East and Africa.

I know that some of them are legitimate refugees, but it seems clear that the vast majority are economic migrants who are simply after whatever they can get for themselves - that's why 72%+ of them are young men, and why 90% of them have no documents (but claim to be coming from Syria).

There's also clearly a huge risk that terrorists will be among them, potentially (probably?) thousands of them.

It seems crazy that any sane person would welcome all of these people with open arms (like Merkel) because all it will do is encourage many, MANY times more to also come, so what is behind it all? Why are our leaders doing this?

I think I have an answer to a small part of the puzzle, and yes, it's a conspiracy theory.

1) It's clear that the (unelected) leaders of the EU like Juncker want to expand the size and scale of the EU to make it into a superpower, this is why they've been trying to absorb old Soviet states into the EU, which is causing friction with Russia.

I guess the more people they have control of, and the more territory they control, the more powerful they become.

But the numbers of people in Europe who now do not want this is growing rapidly. People don't want to lose their national identities to become "European" rather than German, or French, or English, etc, and I think a lot of people now view the hierarchy of the EU as unjust and corrupt, and want to bring it (in it's current form) to an end.

If these feelings grow then the dream of our inglorious leaders will be finished, so I think they have had to accelerate the process, and I think that flooding Europe with migrants is the way they are doing it.

1) Basically, they know that there will be lots of terrorists in among them, and they know that a lot of them will resort to violence and crime to get what they want ("give me money, money, money" as one of them was filmed screaming) - it is inevitable.

But because the EU are going to give each member state a quota of "refugees" that they MUST take, these problems will not now just be a French problem, or an English problem, or a German problem, or an Austrian problem, or a Spanish problem - they will be a European problem.

In other words, what tends to pull people together is a common cause, or a common problem, and what better way to temper the nationalistic views of the people of different countries than to give them all the exact same problem to worry about - a European problem that can only be solved if we stand together as Europeans and solve it through the EU.

2) If things become really bad - i.e. regular and major terrorist attacks, or violence, etc, then it will become an emergency, and this will pave the way to special laws being passed - laws that curtail your rights - in order to "protect" you.

At that point the EU will sneak direct and far reaching powers and control over all member states via the back door, and they will NEVER give those powers and rights back again.

It's all been done before, it's a bit like the Reichstag fire - create an enemy that you need protection from, and then take away your rights because this is painted as necessary to give you that protection from that manufactured boogeyman.

And the people, if they are scared, will give it all away without a seconds thought.

The EU superstate is born quickly and easily as those unelected leaders want, and they have power over all of us whether we want it or not.

Maybe that's why in the UK David Cameron is inexplicably not giving us a referendum on staying in or leaving the EU until 2017 - making sure there's enough time to make sure the vote will never take place?

Pretty soon those refugees will be given proper status to vote and access to a lifestyle they only dreamed kings live. Say what you like about that statement but it is what it is. Political elite keeping themselves in power through immigration acceptance. They teach you 3 things, where to get food, where to get money, and where to vote.

originally posted by: Vector99
Pretty soon those refugees will be given proper status to vote and access to a lifestyle they only dreamed kings live. Say what you like about that statement but it is what it is. Political elite keeping themselves in power through immigration acceptance. They teach you 3 things, where to get food, where to get money, and where to vote.

Yes that is also true, I think it's a game that a lot of political parties have played for a long time - let people come here and live very well for free and they will always vote for you - plus they get to call their opponents "racists" as well - double bubble.

Another interesting thing is that Merkel is pushing already for laws against "hate speech", so I guess the way it will go is that the media will show you lovely stories like the girl giving the policeman a cookie, and not show the violent clashes.

Then someone says something like "hey, what the hell is going on, what is Merkel playing at - this is Germany, German people should come first!" - and that will be classed as hate speech, thereby further trampling over the idea of national pride or national identity.

a reply to: Power_Semi

72%+ of them are young men, and why 90% of them have no documents (but claim to be coming from Syria).

Can I get a source for that?

Because those numbers are NOT what I experience near-daily on my routes through my hometown. I meet dozens, maybe hundreds of refugees on their way from the railwaystation to their destinated homes (transistional homes, could someone translate "Flüchtlingsunterkunft"? Leo.org tried Accomodation for refugees, but I am somewhat unsatisfied with that).

And yes, there are others who don't think they will "lose" their national identity. In Germany, we had 5.000.000 Turkish immigrants in the 60s-70s, and that went quite well. They widened our spectrum of views on the world. Without them, we would be poorer, in nearly every possible way.

Terrorists.. Is an islamic imam a terrorist to you? Because, WHAT is a terrorist? Anyone who thinks that his/her religious believes are better than others and thus they are infidels?

a reply to: Power_Semi

"People" should come first. I don't care about "German" or "Hungarian" or "Polish" or "Greek" or "British". That does not have a real value to me. Why should it?

What makes a "membership" to one country more valuable than to another country?

a reply to: ManFromEurope

Even If it was 70% young men do people not understand they are fleeing because they are the ones made to fight?.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
a reply to: Power_Semi

72%+ of them are young men, and why 90% of them have no documents (but claim to be coming from Syria).

Can I get a source for that?

Because those numbers are NOT what I experience near-daily on my routes through my hometown. I meet dozens, maybe hundreds of refugees on their way from the railwaystation to their destinated homes (transistional homes, could someone translate "Flüchtlingsunterkunft"? Leo.org tried Accomodation for refugees, but I am somewhat unsatisfied with that).

And yes, there are others who don't think they will "lose" their national identity. In Germany, we had 5.000.000 Turkish immigrants in the 60s-70s, and that went quite well. They widened our spectrum of views on the world. Without them, we would be poorer, in nearly every possible way.

Terrorists.. Is an islamic imam a terrorist to you? Because, WHAT is a terrorist? Anyone who thinks that his/her religious believes are better than others and thus they are infidels?

1) Source: data.unhcr.org...

2) What you experience in Germany is not what I am talking about, I am talking about the total number of people arriving in Europe - you don't see them all on your daily route through your home town.

3) I consider a terrorist as a person who is intent on killing other people, as per in Paris, London, 911, etc - you are trying to imply that I am implying that all Muslims are terrorists - that is dishonest of you - I clearly said there will possibly (probably) be a few thousand terrorists in among the nearly half a million people who have arrived thus far.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
a reply to: Power_Semi

"People" should come first. I don't care about "German" or "Hungarian" or "Polish" or "Greek" or "British". That does not have a real value to me. Why should it?

What makes a "membership" to one country more valuable than to another country?

Well bully for you that you don't care about "german" or "hungarian" etc - what about those who do - do their views not count because they are different to yours?

Anyway, you are taking this thread away from the topic - it is not about whether it is "right" that people have national identities, it is about whether this "crisis" is being used as a way to push through greater powers for the leaders of the EU.

a reply to: boymonkey74

If people (men included) would rather flee than fight there is nothing wrong with that. Being a man actually doesn't require you to fight.

originally posted by: Power_Semi

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
a reply to: Power_Semi

"People" should come first. I don't care about "German" or "Hungarian" or "Polish" or "Greek" or "British". That does not have a real value to me. Why should it?

What makes a "membership" to one country more valuable than to another country?

Well bully for you that you don't care about "german" or "hungarian" etc - what about those who do - do their views not count because they are different to yours?

We need to just use the reference "people" no pre-names. Using any prename only advocates separation, and in the end we are all just human.

a reply to: ManFromEurope

Without them, we would be poorer, in nearly every possible way.

Get a grip on reality .

A recent non-governmental telephone survey, carried out jointly by Liljeberg and the Berlin-based INFO polling company sampled 1011 Turkish migrants living in Germany. It showed 72% of the Turks surveyed in Germany believe that Islam is the only true religion, 62% prefer social contacts only to fellow Turks, 46% wish that one day more Muslims live in Germany than Christians, 25% think atheists are inferior human beings and 18% felt that Jews are inferior people.

Refugees are cowards that leave behind the vulnerable..?

There’s so much wrong with this, it’s hard to know where to begin. Similar to the Nazi propaganda that compared Jews to rats, these images try to dehumanise refugees by painting them as cowardly men leaving their children to die. An important part of your internet detective tool kit is something called reverse image search. A reverse image search will allow you to search the internet for copies of a particular image, rather than a string of text like usual. This brilliant bit of investigative research was done by Philip Kleinfeld, in a much more in-depth article on Vice.com about anti-refugee memes. His internet sleuthing found the source of the photo is from a CBC article that is covering a special train to Munich bringing in refugees. Philip discovered that when he actually watched the video, there are indeed both women and children arriving into the train station too!

Apart from that, don’t forget that the women are allowed to join the British military and will soon likely be taking front line combat roles. Let’s not paint women as some hapless cattle that needs defending while we’re at it.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

Refugees are cowards that leave behind the vulnerable..?

There’s so much wrong with this, it’s hard to know where to begin. Similar to the Nazi propaganda that compared Jews to rats, these images try to dehumanise refugees by painting them as cowardly men leaving their children to die. An important part of your internet detective tool kit is something called reverse image search. A reverse image search will allow you to search the internet for copies of a particular image, rather than a string of text like usual. This brilliant bit of investigative research was done by Philip Kleinfeld, in a much more in-depth article on Vice.com about anti-refugee memes. His internet sleuthing found the source of the photo is from a CBC article that is covering a special train to Munich bringing in refugees. Philip discovered that when he actually watched the video, there are indeed both women and children arriving into the train station too!

Apart from that, don’t forget that the women are allowed to join the British military and will soon likely be taking front line combat roles. Let’s not paint women as some hapless cattle that needs defending while we’re at it.

LOL - so a couple of photos showing a few kids completely overturns the OFFICIAL STATISTICS that 72% are young men.

This thread is NOT about anything other than if this "crisis" is being manufactured so that the leaders of the EU can obtain more power for themselves surreptitiously.

So please leave ideology and your thoughts on refugees at the door - it is about political conspiracy, not whether millions of migrants entering Europe is right or wrong.

a reply to: hutch622

Western countries are poorer without immigrants, then how come their own countries are poorer than western ones to start with?

Sorry your idea simply is ridiculous. This is about planned destabilisation and Merkel fell for it hook line and sinker due to probably guilt over Germany's past and the pressure it is still under to maintain that guilt.

One major problem is that unless benefit is cut to deliberately large families, they will effect the votes/politics sooner rather than later if many don't integrate. Its interesting just how many cultures think its OK to have children you cannot afford and that attitude needs changing immediately for those who have it by not financing it.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: hutch622

Western countries are poorer without immigrants, then how come their own countries are poorer than western ones to start with?

Sorry your idea simply is ridiculous. This is about planned destabilisation and Merkel fell for it hook line and sinker due to probably guilt over Germany's past and the pressure it is still under to maintain that guilt.

One major problem is that unless benefit is cut to deliberately large families, they will effect the votes/politics sooner rather than later if many don't integrate. Its interesting just how many cultures think its OK to have children you cannot afford and that attitude needs changing immediately for those who have it by not financing it.

I agree but I'm not sure that Merkel "fell for it", I think it's a deliberate plan by the rulers of the EU, Merkel included.

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: Power_Semi

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
a reply to: Power_Semi

"People" should come first. I don't care about "German" or "Hungarian" or "Polish" or "Greek" or "British". That does not have a real value to me. Why should it?

What makes a "membership" to one country more valuable than to another country?

Well bully for you that you don't care about "german" or "hungarian" etc - what about those who do - do their views not count because they are different to yours?

We need to just use the reference "people" no pre-names. Using any prename only advocates separation, and in the end we are all just human.

Except to most Muslim's you are not a human, you are an infidel

Muslim culture does not seek to integrate, it seeks to subjugate all in its path.

Why do you think German girls are being warned you cover up?

Because the Muslim's so not respect you or your country or you culture.

They mean to impose theirs on you, with as much rape and violence as it takes.

Do you not read the news?

It is full of these stories, they are just always buried

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: Power_Semi

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
a reply to: Power_Semi

"People" should come first. I don't care about "German" or "Hungarian" or "Polish" or "Greek" or "British". That does not have a real value to me. Why should it?

What makes a "membership" to one country more valuable than to another country?

Well bully for you that you don't care about "german" or "hungarian" etc - what about those who do - do their views not count because they are different to yours?

We need to just use the reference "people" no pre-names. Using any prename only advocates separation, and in the end we are all just human.

what you say sounds quite Utopian, but really it's just nonsensical left wing ideology.

People feel an affinity and a connection to where they were born and live, it becomes a part of their internalised view of who they are - you can't just tell them they're wrong and that they should stop.

And why should they? It's how we have survived as communities for thousands of years.

a reply to: johnwick

Sorry John I live near Bradford in the UK and "most" Muslims think nothing of the sort(not around here anyhow) .
They just want to bring up their kids in a safe place and after speaking with many about the situation they do not push their religion on others heck most Muslims I know think of their relgion rarely as often as a christian would in the UK.
it's xenophobia tbh I welcome anyone wanting a better life and wanting to contribute to the UK with open arms.

Apart from the French of course

This thread is just more of This

originally posted by: Power_Semi
[Mods, you have a US political madness forum, I think it's high time you had a European one as well because the lunatics running our asylum are doing much crazier things, and causing much more damage than the rest of the world put together]

I think I'm like a lot of people in that I'm watching with disbelief the invasion of Europe by people from all over the Middle East and Africa.

Rubbish. Nonsensical sensationalist propagandist twaddle. There is no "invasion" underway here. There are no tanks crossing our borders, no artillery pounding our cities, no air raids being used to cover an enemy advance, no invading force, and there for no invasion. What is happening however, is that an awful lot of people are trying to get themselves, and their families out of desperate situations in the region, and to places of safety.

Some people will only learn the difference between these two by actually FACING an armed invasion, due to staggering shortsightedness, but starting a thread in this way clearly marks it as being either a poorly informed OP, or a deliberate effort to spread right wing propaganda, something which we need less of in Europe, not more.

I know that some of them are legitimate refugees, but it seems clear that the vast majority are economic migrants who are simply after whatever they can get for themselves - that's why 72%+ of them are young men, and why 90% of them have no documents (but claim to be coming from Syria).

There's also clearly a huge risk that terrorists will be among them, potentially (probably?) thousands of them.

Your assumptions about the reason behind the percentages involved are just that, assumptions. They are based on a misconception, a failure to understand the difficulties involved with moving through territory controlled by psychopaths, with crossing borders protected by armed guards, and making the vast journeys involved. The reason that most of the people showing up at border points and bottle necks happen to be male, and younger males at that, is because they are the ones most able to evade pursuers, pick their way over borders and make the trips involved unscathed or at least in one piece. Babies drowning at sea, mothers and wives going the same way, all over the news, and yet you fail entirely to understand that the simple reason for the demographics of those arriving as refugees, are that these are merely those who survived the journey.

And as for your comment about terrorists in their midst, almost certainly. However, that is no reason to put the rest through hell, otherwise we are no better than the scum from whom they are running in the first place. We cannot treat all refugees and immigrants as if they are terrorists, just because of where they are from. That is not acceptable.

It seems crazy that any sane person would welcome all of these people with open arms (like Merkel) because all it will do is encourage many, MANY times more to also come, so what is behind it all? Why are our leaders doing this?

I think I have an answer to a small part of the puzzle, and yes, it's a conspiracy theory.

1) It's clear that the (unelected) leaders of the EU like Juncker want to expand the size and scale of the EU to make it into a superpower, this is why they've been trying to absorb old Soviet states into the EU, which is causing friction with Russia.

I guess the more people they have control of, and the more territory they control, the more powerful they become.

But the numbers of people in Europe who now do not want this is growing rapidly. People don't want to lose their national identities to become "European" rather than German, or French, or English, etc, and I think a lot of people now view the hierarchy of the EU as unjust and corrupt, and want to bring it (in it's current form) to an end.

These points are fairly made in my estimation, although have nothing to do with immigrants what so ever.

If these feelings grow then the dream of our inglorious leaders will be finished, so I think they have had to accelerate the process, and I think that flooding Europe with migrants is the way they are doing it.

1) Basically, they know that there will be lots of terrorists in among them, and they know that a lot of them will resort to violence and crime to get what they want ("give me money, money, money" as one of them was filmed screaming) - it is inevitable.

But because the EU are going to give each member state a quota of "refugees" that they MUST take, these problems will not now just be a French problem, or an English problem, or a German problem, or an Austrian problem, or a Spanish problem - they will be a European problem.

In other words, what tends to pull people together is a common cause, or a common problem, and what better way to temper the nationalistic views of the people of different countries than to give them all the exact same problem to worry about - a European problem that can only be solved if we stand together as Europeans and solve it through the EU.

2) If things become really bad - i.e. regular and major terrorist attacks, or violence, etc, then it will become an emergency, and this will pave the way to special laws being passed - laws that curtail your rights - in order to "protect" you.

The answer to which, is to embrace refugees and migrants, until such time as individuals amongst their number prove that they have ill intent, at which point we must ONLY respond in ANY way to the specific individuals involved with any terrorist action, and without having any effect on regular citizens, their rights, or their liberty. Anything else should inspire two things. First, all of the compassionate people who understand their place in the world must rise up, take power away from their governments, and apply justice and fairness PROPERLY, and second, all of the right wingers and terrorists alike will have to be mutilated beyond their ability to ever effect anything ever again.

At that point the EU will sneak direct and far reaching powers and control over all member states via the back door, and they will NEVER give those powers and rights back again.

It's all been done before, it's a bit like the Reichstag fire - create an enemy that you need protection from, and then take away your rights because this is painted as necessary to give you that protection from that manufactured boogeyman.

And the people, if they are scared, will give it all away without a seconds thought.

The EU superstate is born quickly and easily as those unelected leaders want, and they have power over all of us whether we want it or not.

Maybe that's why in the UK David Cameron is inexplicably not giving us a referendum on staying in or leaving the EU until 2017 - making sure there's enough time to make sure the vote will never take place?

The machinations of our governments are no reason to distrust an entire demographic. If we want to fight these moves you think will be made by the EU, the only way to fight that is to refuse to be programmed, no matter how many people die, no matter how many bombs go off, and no matter what injustices take place to lever us against our fellow man. Fear is not the answer. It is NEVER the answer.