The Mason Proof

I am new to this blog stuff, but am an old hand at investigating.
My intro post will tell you it started being more then an item to read in the paper on 23 nov 63.
I will jump right to the point- here is a posting from one of the higher ranking masons........
"
Secondly, the Eastern Star is actually derived from a Christian symbol.
It represents the Star of Bethlehem which pointed the Magi to the Christ Child.
Thus it is written of the Eastern Star: �We have seen His star in the East,
and are come to worship him�

Seems innocent enough huh -I mean aside from it being bull#

He further flabbergates about his knowledge of Pikes books and his 32 something or other steps to "Higher knowledge"

It should be noted here that these people are programed. The inate goodness that resides in us from birth has been understood from the begining by the ones who would controll us.
This 32nd Degree Mason is no doubt a fine person. One cannot dicard the good works that the mundane mason has iniated and supported.

There are many natural/psychological/spiritual urges that could lend reason to a man(no women please) wanting to be "invited" to be a Freemason.
And yes sir I know many masons and have even witnessed some fancydan kind of "Rites"
Oh and don't discount greed and business from the reasons to join.
Masons do ok, some even do very well and some ...well you see the President don"t you?

Mr Ickes writtings and his research are far from mundane. Just as Mark Lanes writting and reasearch were far closer to the truth then "The Warren Commission" report on JFK or the new one that finialy had to admit that Lee H Oswald was employed by the CIA. The deed gets further away and the memories fade and the killers got away. Just like it was suspose to happen.

Howard Hughes connected it all up for me with this one fact. He owned the theater Lee Oswald was nabbed in.

This post is getting long - more to come

originally posted by GLeamer
...but am an old hand at investigating.

Apparently not.

Aside from that though, are you a Mason? Do you know any Masons? Can you show some evidence backing up this "deception" that is taking place within the fraternity?

The particular individual you quoted has probably done more research and study into the Craft than you or I could ever hope to acheive, and for you to suggest that this intelligent, learned, cogent man is somehow being duped into believing in something or worshipping some made up diety without knowing it is ignorance of the most disgusting kind.

Do you realize how insulting that is? Do you really think that a man can be tricked into believing something he is by principle against? Masonry is an institution in which a good man can have fellowship with other good men, learn, and give back to the community, all the while spiritually growing as a result of the Mason's way of life.

I am so sick of hearing these same tired arguments and accusations that simply have no basis in fact.

The really comical part is that you sit here and insult a good man on this board who is a great contributor, basically saying he is too dim to see what's going on right under his nose, while you endorse reptilian-boy and his ravings about shape-shifters and alien conspiracies. Get the net, dude.

Hmmm. Is it just me or do the latest influx of anti-mason theorists seem to be more illiterate?

Not only that but more illogical?

The President of the US is not a Freemason. Some previous Presidents have been members, but Bush isn't one of them.

And as for "Masons do ok, some even do very well ...."? What about all those who do well and aren't masons? Are they in on the conspiracy too?



[edit on 31-12-2004 by Leveller]

Originally posted by GLeamer


He further flabbergates about his knowledge of Pikes books and his 32 something or other steps to "Higher knowledge"

I think it stands to reason that one who is a member of the Fraternity, and has studied and participated in it for years, has a "higher knowledge" of the subject than one who does not meet these prerequisites. If this is "flabbergating", so be it.

It should be noted here that these people are programed.

I would say that there is a better likelihood of people who make these sort of statements being programmed. And I'm not just returning fire here, I'm completely serious.

The reason I say this is that I've seen way too many people so caught up in these conspiracy theories and such, that they are truly unable to distinguish fantasy from reality. The proof of this assertion is in the fact that, regardless if their claims are proven wrong, they refuse to relinquish their errors. Therefore, even though they claim to be seeking "truth", what they are doing in reality is enslaving themselves to a particular ideology. Their search for truth becomes a farce when they ignore because it does not fit in with their pre-conceived notions.

If that's not mental programming, I don't know what is.

And yes sir I know many masons and have even witnessed some fancydan kind of "Rites"

If this is truly the case (and as of the moment I have no reason to doubt your word about it), is there anything in these Masons you know, or the ceremonies you have witnessed, which would lead you to think ill of Freemasonry? And if so, what were they?

Oh and don't discount greed and business from the reasons to join.
Masons do ok, some even do very well and some ...well you see the President don"t you?

First, let me stress that the current president is not now, nor has he ever been, a Mason.
As for business reasons, you are no doubt correct that some have the joined the Order thinking it would help them profit in business. Before a man is initiated, he is required to promise on his honor that the reason he is joining is for the pursuit of knowledge and to serve his fellow man, and not for any mercenary purposes, which includes business reasons. Nevertheless, there have doubtless been men who lied in this vow, and joined for business reasons.

Such men soon leave the fraternity after they discover that it is not what they expected.

Mr Ickes writtings and his research are far from mundane.

As mentioned, Mr. Icke claims that the world is controlled by reptilian shapeshifters from the fourth dimension. Whether or not this is mundane is, I suppose, up to the individual to decide for him/herself.

Originally posted by Leveller
Hmmm. Is it just me or do the latest influx of anti-mason theorists seem to be more illiterate?

Leveller,

I'm glad you noticed that too. I've actually been sitting here...trying to decide whether or not to irritate my carpal tunnel syndrome by responding to this...and (believe it or not) kind of wishing ol' dribbler would come back. At least he/she/it was amusing.

But Sir -The claims proven wrong -are yours.
Higher Mason double speak follows...

"I would say that there is a better likelihood of people who make these sort of statements being programmed. And I'm not just returning fire here, I'm completely serious.


The reason I say this is that I've seen way too many people so caught up in these conspiracy theories and such, that they are truly unable to distinguish fantasy from reality. The proof of this assertion is in the fact that, regardless if their claims are proven wrong, they refuse to relinquish their errors. Therefore, even though they claim to be seeking "truth", what they are doing in reality is enslaving themselves to a particular ideology. Their search for truth becomes a farce when they ignore because it does not fit in with their pre-conceived notions.

If that's not mental programming, I don't know what is. "

I do

Of course one can be proven wrong in the mason light For as you see from the above proof of assertion -the error lay in the eye of the beholder.
Never with the Craft

Originally posted by GLeamer
But Sir -The claims proven wrong -are yours.
Higher Mason double speak follows...

"I would say that there is a better likelihood of people who make these sort of statements being programmed. And I'm not just returning fire here, I'm completely serious.


The reason I say this is that I've seen way too many people so caught up in these conspiracy theories and such, that they are truly unable to distinguish fantasy from reality. The proof of this assertion is in the fact that, regardless if their claims are proven wrong, they refuse to relinquish their errors. Therefore, even though they claim to be seeking "truth", what they are doing in reality is enslaving themselves to a particular ideology. Their search for truth becomes a farce when they ignore because it does not fit in with their pre-conceived notions.

If that's not mental programming, I don't know what is. "

I do

Of course one can be proven wrong in the mason light For as you see from the above proof of assertion -the error lay in the eye of the beholder.
Never with the Craft

You'd better give me a bit to digest this fascinating post. (A bit too much New Year's Day champagne at the moment to properly dissect this one)

Originally posted by GLeamer


For as you see from the above proof of assertion -the error lay in the eye of the beholder.
Never with the Craft

No, proof does not lie in the eye of the beholder: it isn't relative. Proof, by its very nature, must be demonstrable. Otherwise, it isn't proof at all.

So I repeat what I said above: those who continue to argue against Masonry from a conspiratorial viewpoint exhibit all the signs of being programmed. Such programming is done via means of intense propaganda and indoctrination. This sort of programming is often successful because it plays on the emotions, rather than reason and logic.

This type of programming used by conspiracy theorists, including anti-Masons, is almost identical to that used by the Nazi Party. Indeed, with the Nazis being the fathers of modern conspiracy theory and anti-Masonry, one can see many analogies in propagandic technique, with even minimum research.




[edit on 1-1-2005 by Masonic Light]

I can understand how you fell about my opinions dealing with the Freemasonry. I was the same way when I came into the knowledge about the hoildays which I celebrated for a good part of my life. Denial is the first stage, but ignorance is bliss. I don't expect you to understand my findings. It's just like any dialogue of two people who don't agree on a topic. I will find evidence to refute your and findings and you will do the same, that is the way of the world. I am just following the will of God. If it is not in the Bible or commanded by the Father to do, then I don't need it. My opinion is that the Freemasonry of anti-christiaon, plane and simple. I did not want to offend you in any way. What happens in the dark shall be brought to light. PEACE

Mason Proof is the title of your thread. What is it your actually
trying to prove?

am an old hand at investigating.

Not very well I might add.

Secondly, the Eastern Star is actually derived from a Christian symbol.

What is your argument here??

He further flabbergates about his knowledge of Pikes books and his 32 something or other steps to "Higher knowledge"

Flabbergates?

Mr Ickes writtings and his research are far from mundane.

Try not to get Mundane and The Truth mixed up.

Howard Hughes connected it all up for me with this one fact. He owned the theater Lee Oswald was nabbed in.

What exactly has this connected up?

This post is getting long - more to come

Frightening.

Sorry, if this reply sounds sarcastic, but I'm trying to establish what your
getting at here

Originally posted by djackson
I can understand how you fell about my opinions dealing with the Freemasonry.

I don't think you've understood anything, to be perfectly frank. You have demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge and understanding concerning Freemasonry. You have slandered the name of a deceased Masonic official, calling him a "satanist", although he was in fact a Christian, and even taught a Bible School class at his church. You've made wild references to the Christian holidays, which you seem to believe are demonic, and have refused to address our rebuttals.

What else can I say? Maybe ignorance is bliss?

[edit on 2-1-2005 by Masonic Light]

So I repeat what I said above: those who continue to argue against Masonry from a conspiratorial viewpoint exhibit all the signs of being programmed.

maybe its relative ML, depends on their relatives?

I will find evidence to refute your and findings

you have yet to provide any evidence of anything. please go back and start over. search is good.

I am just following the will of God. If it is not in the Bible or commanded by the Father to do, then I don't need it

so would it be safe to sa that because the bible does not directly mention the marraige of Jesus you dont think he was married?

The bodies of ten children were recently discovered burried under Ben Franklins house.
The masoms hold Lucifer as a bearer of light
There will never be "proof" of the misdeed done by the Highest ranking masons.
They are experts at ridding the proof and hiding.
They have been perfecting it for centuries.
I do find it strange that all these coincidences piled one on another do not concern the mundane members of the Craft
Pike says misleading the masses is one of the methods to be emploted by the higher rated masons.
I can't imagin any thoughtful person looking at all the circumstances and all the coincidences not coming to the conclusion that something is very amiss with this gang.
The rebal flag waving sycophants dotting the mason landscape are a reminder that masons have supported the KKK and other terrorist through the ages. Discord is the realm they desire- there is no good will but to other masons and the running dogs they have gathered

Originally posted by GLeamer

Yet again you post flimsy innuendo or lies. What about actually backing up some of your statements?

The bodies of ten children were recently discovered burried under Ben Franklins house.

Already dicussed. Go look it up on ATS.

The masoms hold Lucifer as a bearer of light

Already dicussed. Go look it up on ATS.
By the way, Lucifer is actually Latin for Bringer of Light. The Bible also holds Lucifer as the "Bearer of Light".

There will never be "proof" of the misdeed done by the Highest ranking masons.

False. In Freemasonry, if you commit a cime, you are expelled from the Order. As simple as that.

The rebal flag waving sycophants dotting the mason landscape are a reminder that masons have supported the KKK and other terrorist through the ages. Discord is the realm they desire- there is no good will but to other masons and the running dogs they have gathered

Freemasonry neither supports nor condones Terrorism or Racism. It is actually totally anti both and the fact that it accepts men of all racial backgrounds and is spread over the entire surface of the Earth refutes your wild claim.



You really need to do more research before you post your drivel. I would also suggest that you don't use Freemasonrywatch as your source. It's as biased and unreliable as you are. If you are going to post about masonry stop being so lazy - look for something that hasn't been refuted on ATS before or at least try to come at it from an original angle. The statement that you have made concerning Lucifer only goes to show your ignorance and proves that you don't even have a clue who or what the word means or how it came about. You sound like somebody who is merely repeating parrot fashion something that they have read on the web.
I fear your hatred of Freemasonry is totally based on ignorance and you have done nothing to prove otherwise.

The reader will notice that rarely is an issue addressed by these mason posters.
They will also notice that I am a lazy,disgusting,illerate,liar who never has done any reserch and rehashed issues that have been "discussed" before ( I'm sure they have).

The masons are responsible - but not responbsible

A Pike( a recognized racist) was responsible for formation of the Klu Kluc Klan - The Knights of the Golden Circle
Now that they have different name , the masons can claim innocence.

The Freemasons have power, but are powerless.

The Illuminatti were once part of the masons, but they disbanded and lost all power and anything you hear different is a myth , a lie.

The masons are a religion, but not a religion......
What follows has been taken off the WEB PAGE of - title is shown


Knight Malta Knights of the Golden Condor - Supreme Council Military Knight Templar of The Rosacrucian & Columbus Dawn

Check the meta name.....



A Cathloic Church gang

These Men (no women , please) have been networking for centries and have done only good.
It's not their fault that wars and land grabs and all kinds of perfidity
have happened- even when High Ranking Masons are in power.
The Craft is Innocent, but not Innocent

TITLE-Knight Malta Knights of the Golden Condor - Supreme Council Military Knight Templar of The Rosacrucian & Columbus Dawn-

META NAME-"Knight Malta knights of the round table, knight templar, golden dawn, knight columbus, medieval knight, military order, mason, masonic, master mason, scotish rite, rosacruscian">

A Pike( a recognized racist) was responsible for formation of the Klu Kluc Klan

wrong, the original Ku Klux Clan /Cucklos Clan was formed and disbanded by
Nathan B. Forrest the current clan was formed many years later.
this also has been talked to death here.

[edit on 2-1-2005 by stalkingwolf]

HHHmmm I ain' t dead
and I ain't wrong
Pikes the man -You guys won't carry any weight at all
Its all coincidence , lies or myths
Researchers are mistaken because the masons say they are and that all you need to know

Originally posted by GLeamer
HHHmmm I ain' t dead
and I ain't wrong
Pikes the man -You guys won't carry any weight at all
Its all coincidence , lies or myths
Researchers are mistaken because the masons say they are and that all you need to know

Yep. You spew all this nonsense and you're adamantly right...and we're all undeniably wrong. Wow! Nothing like that's ever shown up on this list.



Gleam-less, you're a troll...plain and simple.

From what I've read, members of the Masonic lodge must believe in God.

From an outsiders perspective and after reading a small bit of basic background information,
the problem seems to be that many Christian as well as other groups have the idea that
the Masons hold knowledge and possibly hard evidence that undermines the legitimacy of the generally PUBLISHED holy scriptures.

Any such "secret" knowledge thus being viewed as heresy and extremely threatening
to the power and wealth of organized religion.

So IMHO any such knowledge immediately becomes the work of Satan
by those who must cast blame on someone.

The only actual Masonic reference I found that would cause such hate mongering
could be that there are references to the "original" Knights Templar protecting the modern day blood lines of Jesus, therefore disproving his death by crucifixion.
This of course being the whole foundation of the church.

Other articles proclaim that Masonic elders possess or know the whereabouts
of the Arc of the covenant and many other important historical archives.

My only personal problem with ANY organization is what happens with the financial contributions? RCC, Mormon, Protestant, Lutheran, Hebrew, Muslim, whatever!
When you take a hard look at every single organized denomination, there are billions
if not trillions of dollars involved.
Each denomination simply trying to secure their piece of the donation piate.

I will not pass judgement or riducule anyone who searches for truth.