Please do not call yourselves Christians any more.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Wait - I thought you dropped the food off and left....????

I did but they found out who I was and came to my house to thank me

see thread page 12 post number 11

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Okay, I just wanted to make it very clear that I was never, ever proselytizing ANYTHING religious to any of the people I came to know as a helper and advocate of theirs.

I made a couple of remarks in this thread, above...that, as I look back at them, could have been construed to mean that I am Muslim, or a Christian who is busy indoctrinating people into a belief system based on so-called 'holy books'. Never, ever, did I do that.

And I never would. Ever.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: windword

I do feed the hungry. Just gave a black family down the street three whole boxes of food. I rang the bell and left. later they came to the house to thank me seems one of our neighbors told them it was me.

I sent four boxes just last Saturday to a small church in south east Asia it has clothes and school supplies.

Our church just packed four 40foot containers and sent them to Hungry to help the Syrians refugees.

Like I said you don't know my works and so you judge me with unrighteous judgment.

the particular verse you quoted does apply to Jews of that day pre-death of Christ also.

We do help those in our area some are Christians and some are not. But we are not commanded to do it. and that is the point the body of Christ have no command to do so. We do it out of Charity and our love for our fellow man.

Here's what you said.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: ChesterJohn

But there are some teachings strictly for Israel

Hospitality isn't one of them.

Matthew 25:35
For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.

You don't get be like "Sodom" just because you're not "Israel".

Ezekiel 16:49
Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.

Luke 10;10
But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.

Matthew scriptures are for Israel Historically not for the church today. Sodom is the sister of Israel via Lot. and again the scriptures in Luke are for the 12 to 70 disciples at that historical time when they were sent out not for the church today.

All Christians like Israel should be hospitable but there is a limit to hospitality.

Where did Jesus teach the "limit" to hospitality?

a reply to: MOMof3

Jesus called Paul

1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

he was recognized by James and the rest as an apostle the uncircumcised

ns 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Historically Paul's teacher Gamaliel is recorded as speaking to the council that was going after Christ disciples. So there is a great chance he did in fact see and hear Jesus during his earthly ministry even though scripture is silent.

Acts 5:34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;

Acts 5:35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.

Acts 5:36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.

Acts 5:37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.

Acts 5:38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:

Acts 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

Acts 5:40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.

Acts 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Paul's own testimony of being in Jerusalem under Gameliel

Acts 22:1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.

Acts 22:2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)

Acts 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

Acts 22:4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

Acts 22:5 As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

Acts 22:6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.

Acts 22:7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Acts 22:8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.

Acts 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

Acts 22:10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.

Acts 22:11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.

Acts 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,

Acts 22:13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.

Acts 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Acts 22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

Acts 22:18 And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.

Acts 22:19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:

Acts 22:20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.

Acts 22:21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

Acts 22:22 And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live.

Acts 22:23 And as they cried out, and cast off their clothes, and threw dust into the air,

Acts 22:24 The chief captain commanded him to be brought into the castle, and bade that he should be examined by scourging; that he might know wherefore they cried so against him.

Paul known as Saul is recorded at the stoning of Stephen above and here

Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Acts 8:2 And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.

a reply to: windword

I know what I said and I am correct.

Find me a support collaborated teaching from Paul that says the same thing and you have a doctrine for the church. But you can't because there is none. Under the church writings we are to care for others in the church as instructed by Paul and it is a free will no command.

you keep claiming commandment to the church and it is not it is a pre crucifixion commandment to Israel and as I keep say learn to rightly divide the word of truth and you will not get all these legalistic teachings.

Paul does teach us to be hospitable but at the same time he also said not to invite heretics into your home or even bless them a good day.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: ChesterJohn

Okay, I just wanted to make it very clear that I was never, ever proselytizing ANYTHING religious to any of the people I came to know as a helper and advocate of theirs.

I made a couple of remarks in this thread, above...that, as I look back at them, could have been construed to mean that I am Muslim, or a Christian who is busy indoctrinating people into a belief system based on so-called 'holy books'. Never, ever, did I do that.

And I never would. Ever.

I never said you were or even thought your were proselytizing. Not sure where you got all this from I made no mention of any of it.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

What lots of us are looking for are records that AREN'T in 'the Bible,' and have also not been debunked as fraudulent writings of misguided (but possibly well-meaning) MEN.

MEN wrote those books.
Just, men. Doing their 'men' thing - to control others.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I never said you were or even thought your were proselytizing. Not sure where you got all this from I made no mention of any of it.

Okay, good. Cool....

I know you never said or alluded to it.......
I was just looking back at my posts in the thread and wanted to make it crystal clear.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Paul does teach us to be hospitable but at the same time he also said not to invite heretics into your home or even bless them a good day.

But, how do you know they're heretics if you don't invite them into your home or 'even bless them a good day'??

If you don't talk to them a bit, you have no idea what is going on between their ears.....so, how can you call them 'heretics' without knowing a damn thing about them????

Lame.

Wasn't Jesus all about talking to the outcasts, the prostitutes, the criminals??? About looking after widows and children? Clothing the naked, and feeding the hungry? As I recall, he didn't give a crap about their lifestyles or past history. He was simply kind, and generous, and accepting of everyone. At least, I thought so, but, apparently not (according to you and Paul).

Well, that's what I was taught. And despite the outrageously manufactured stories that were identified as fiction by my mind as a child .... what I eventually got out of the experience of being raised in a mainstream Protestant church was that the Golden Rule is really all that matters.


Don't despair, though - it took me a good 25 years to disentangle myself and recognize the reality. (That's the problem with indoctrinating little kids....it leaves scars. In many cases, permanent scars.)

You'll get there, though. We all will. Eventually. It's a work-at-your-own-pace kind of thing.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Find me a support collaborated teaching from Paul that says the same thing and you have a doctrine for the church.

LOL

So Jesus' Gospel needs confirmation from Paul in order for it to be church doctrine

Conversely, I could ask you to find me collaborated teachings from Jesus' Gospels that backs up Paul's doctine, for example that the law was abolished and "nailed to the cross" with Jesus.

a reply to: windword

Again you failure is your own

a doctrine for the church needs to have a supportive scripture in the church writings.

There are no retroactive support scriptures only active. the Bible is fairly lineal . so when there was a shift from Israel to the Gentiles at the calling of Paul things taught there after are supportive. If a teach of Love as Jesus Taught was also taught by Paul. Being one was taught by Jesus and Paul taught it also. so those are doctrines. But water baptism is commanded by Christ to his disciples and them they disciple. But Paul teaches nothing on water baptism. Though he mentions it most of his teaching on Baptism is a condition of the Christian done by the Holy Ghost not an act done by the believer.

Paul restates 9 out of the Ten Commandments for the Body of Christ, one he does not is Sabbath observance. However Paul say let no may judge you as to a holyday, Sabbath or full moons as to when one want to worship God.

You have not the Holy Ghost so it is futile to share anything with you as it means nothing to you and you cannot discern it as it is spiritually discerned.

Jesus was the fulfillment of the Law and no Gentile was ever put under the law. the law was not for Gentiles but for Israel alone.

Malachi 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

There are no retroactive support scriptures only active.

You are aware that this is archaic, and not modern common knowledge ...right?

You do realize that, don't you? Nag Hammadi, Sumerian and Egyptian records, etc. Right? You are aware of that, I trust.


Oh, and btw, by my 11th birthday (mid November of 1969), I had totally figured out that the church Bible-story scripture flood snake dirt-man rib-lady pillars of salt huge fish stuff and hellfire was all nonsense. All of it, except for the Golden Rule thing.

Much later, I realized it was the same thing that the Buddha had taught, as well as many others. Then again, the house where I grew up was full of books. Lots and lots of books. And kindness and anti-snobbery. And music. And living within the means we had.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs
Buzzy, I believe God has given us his words in a book for us to read, study and to know him and Christ by. His word is said to be truth, teaches the simple and in it we find salvation. He promised to keep his word to all generations, that include preserving it (keep is an old word that implies preservation). I believe he has and that is why I can trust the AV Bible above all others and above the teaching of men, on anything it teaches.

I know what JW teach and I don't let them in, nor bless their day. The same with Mormons.

I witnessed to half naked poor folk in Asia, Prostitutes, drug addicts, homosexuals.

We encourage family to take care of their widows and if no one takes care of them the church is to do so. the orphans we feed them, give them clothing and help them with schooling. The handicapped we have given them braces and crutches and wheelchairs, clothes.

I witnessed to a man in a pawn shop near where we live now. Told him my testimony and gave him the gospel and all he could say was if I had tattoos he would believe. What a weak response to such powerful truths.

I never found the term "the golden rule" in the AV Bible.

But I treat people well and with respect as I would want to be treated. I help where I am able to help and if it is within my power to do so.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

The word of God is still just as relevant today as it ever was.

Is not love one another still important? How about sons or nephews take care of your widows? judge not anyone as to a holy day?

I am sorry, I know the Bible is just as relevant today as it ever was.

a reply to: windword

winwiord there are three clear gospels in the NT 1) the doctrine of the kingdom -for Israel it is the Gospel Jesus declared to Israel, 2) the gospel of the grace of God this is the gospel Paul declared to men and that he received from Jesus Christ. And 3) the everlasting Gospel spoken to ALL me Israel and Gentiles by an angel.

You would do well to study them out and see the differences and how they apply to different time periods. the kingdom gospel ended with Paul's calling and comes back into play once the body of Christ is gathered to him ever more to be with him.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Please cite an authoritive source that backs up your claims that 1) Jesus' teachings in the books of Matthew and Luke don't apply to Christians or their churches today, and 2) That Jesus' teachings need corroboration from a 2nd or 3rd hand source to be considered church doctrine.

Otherwise, you're just making stuff up.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I believe God has given us his words in a book for us to read, study and to know him and Christ by.

All righty then.

I believe men wrote the bits and pieces that are in that "book", and switched it all around at will, when it suited them.
I also know (not believe - KNOW) that men compiled that anthology of stuff, much of which is nonsense and exaggerated fantasy.

And I believe that any mature adult who thinks it is not a simple anthology of ancient literature is being willfully self-deluded.

Anyway, nice chatting to you.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Is not love one another still important? How about sons or nephews take care of your widows? judge not anyone as to a holy day?

Yes, it sure is.

Except for those lying JWs and Mormons, I guess. Those heretics. And all the other heretics......like myself. I guess.


Oh, and those words that Jesus said about loving one another?? Yeah, those same words were uttered LOOooong before Jesus was "born".

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

John wrote that if they kept not the doctrine of Christ we were not to invite them in or greet them.

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

2 John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

2 John 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.