72% of refugees fleeing war and oppression are men

originally posted by: Bluntone22
I guess women and children are much safer than men when it comes to oppression and violence.
The breakdown is
72% men
13% women
15% children

The women and children are turned into sex slaves so they can't flee....

originally posted by: Xtrozero

The women and children are turned into sex slaves so they can't flee....

Unfortunately that is very likely. Not all, but a percentage of them could end up as sex slaves.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse it's not likely if we accept these people into our society without prejudice, which pushes them to the periphery. Kind of difficult with the amount of propaganda spewing from right wing sources who seek to demonise these refugees at every given opportunity and people believing it as fact.

I would like to say otherwise, but there are cultural differences that come into play when considering the ability of populations to integrate and become a cooperative and constructive part of the community.

This is based only on my own personal experiences and anecdotes, I add the disclaimer now- it is not meant to be heard as "fact", only one eyewitness account to keep aside in mind, as one gathers the accounts of others, and perhaps over time, see patterns emerge.

With the muslim immigrant population I live with, there is a marked difference in how the genders interact with the community. Women are raised to be hard workers, and to keep ethical standards for themselves that are strict- not only within the home and family, but vis-a-vis the exterior community.

So how this translates into their behavior in the common areas is- the muslim women I work with are wonderfully ethical and honest active elements in the workplace. The men, however, repeatedly manifest a belief in which one proves their intelligence through how well they can "beat the system" and avoid work or service to the whole.

They do not move up to positions of responsibility - they consider those in such positions as "stupid", for only a stupid person would end up with the weight of responsibility. The smart get around it. The ones I work with openly brag about defying rules, avoiding work, faking sickness or injury for paid sick leave. They are the most frequently absent, often tell colleagues before hand that "I think I will have a flu next week" (snirk, giggle...) and when the administration starts to grumble, they brag that they complained of racism and shut them up.

Now, imagine that they live under a regime that is corrupt and unjust- this attitude may be appropriate. "Beating the game" and getting out of unfair conditions probably has it's place in such an environment. But that same attitude in an environment which is more fair and considerate of it's populace, it becomes simply taking unfair advantage.

The hard working others (their women included) are the ones paying for that paid sick leave. And the muslim women and men who work together with me have a lot of hostility towards each other. The women are resentful of that unethical behavior (as they see it). One arab guy loves to try to do the traditional french kiss in greeting to the muslim women, when they know quite well it is completely unacceptable in their religion! The french colleagues understand, and respectfully do not do it with those women... but the men take a certain glee in breaking the rules of their own people.

Long periods of resentment against power by men has cultivated a sort of value upon not conforming and rebelling in sneaky ways, that finds itself out of place when they get to a place and system that they actually wanted to be part of!
You can take the rebel out of hell, but you can't take hell out of the rebel.

This is sad, it is understable, one can see how this developed, and have compassion for them.
But then after that, in very pragmatic terms and objective consideration, what that means for the system that takes them in, is something else to take into account.

You Europeans have just allowed ISIS into your borders. Good luck. At least here in America we're armed to the teeth.

originally posted by: supremecommander
You Europeans have just allowed ISIS into your borders. Good luck. At least here in America we're armed to the teeth.

Didn't help you on 911 did it?

Terrorists don't get together in a big gang like a standing army for you to take pot shots at, they blow things up like subway trains, and planes, and attack schools, or hospitals, or shopping malls so that by the time you realise whats happening it's too late.

Plus you'd think it would be easier for them to get their hands on things like automatic weapons in a country where you can buy them in the same store that sells the groceries.

You will have plenty of naturalised citizens who will be sympathetic to their cause, and who will gladly legally (or illegally - strangely they don't care about breaking your laws) acquire some of the plethora of guns that you all like to surround yourselves with.

a reply to: supremecommander
That's typical. Afraid from refugees, because between all those women, children and men, who are fleeing from aggression, could be a few, who are representing the aggression. So you proudly announce that you are the aggression.

More than a litle crazy.

I find it amazing that no one has mentioned the health costs to Europe with a whole horde of unchecked people descending on their countries and towns.
I expect the numbers of diseases that were eradicated to suddenly reappear.
Of course the unvaccinated citizens will probably be blamed in MSM rather than the new arrivals.
Mark my words, this is going to get bad.

Also with so many young men, I hope Germany doesn't go the same way as Sweden where rape has risen over 400%
Thats another elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

OK...Assuming you are now looking to engage in actual discussion of the numbers and facts?..

OP TITLE: 72% of refugees fleeing war and oppression are men.

You can now agree that the data cited is specifically for refugees arriving on the shores of Greece and Italy and does not include the larger refugee population as a whole?

That those refugees include economic migrants and those not fleeing ISIS or War? Only 50% originate from Syria?

And to be more specific...the data does not specify final destination, but rather where the refugees were recorded, which in this case is arriving on the beaches of Italy or Greece. Thus the data specifies "Mediterranean" not Europe.

Would you also acknowledge that the vast majority of refugees is are travelling by land? AN are not represented in these numbers?

So as this limited and geographically specific data includes a large percentage of economic migrants would it not make sense that the majority be the traditional bread winners (Men)?...Ditto with the Illegal Immigrants from Mexico.

The OP inaccurately attributes these numbers to the Refugees at large (almost 4 Million)

The OP is also Geographically confused..>While it cites numbers from the beaches of specifically Italy and Greece...it drops this ignorant nugget..

the little boy on the beach was sure used as a big propaganda opportunity so I'm not sure how they can justify 3 out of 4 refugees being male.

So what beach in Italy or Greece (the Ops Stats) was that boy found on?

He was found in Turkey!

OK...What are the Turkey numbers???
51% Male ... 49% Female
data.unhcr.org...

OK...How about Syrian Refugees at large?
50% Male .. 50% Female
data.unhcr.org...

WHY would the Syrian Refugees at large be a more relevant number than sea arrivals in the Mediterranean for 2015?

Because arrivals in Greece and Italy are only a very small part of the Refugee Crisis. A large chunk are economic migrants from North Africa (men) not fleeing ISIL.

The link above represents TOTAL Refugees and past years..

Many families sent their women and children first in 2013 and 2014 while the men stayed behind to wait it out. As those towns fell, the men followed.

With the TONNAGE of Data showing a 50% / 50% split in the refugees...to slice out a small sample arriving by sea in only Italy and Greece with many of the economic refugees and attempt to paint the massive refugee crisis with those stats is just plain BS. You know it, I know it...

To Continue...Lets look at only Italy for example in the Mediterranean data...
121,000 Arrivals by sea in 2015

Only 6% about 7K of the 121k stat were from Syria ...the rest are from North Africa..Sudan, Somalia, Nigeria etc. economic refugees.
data.unhcr.org...

Italy?...66% Male, 34% women and children...70% are Syrians out of 250k..175k from Syria...leaving 30% from other places..of that 30%, 20% from Afghanistan...the other 10% economic Migrants..albeit I assume a large chunk of Afghanistan refugees are economic migrants as well. If you slice economic migrants out you have plenty of room to revert to the numbers we know from other data as true...50%/50% on gender for war refugees

The numbers cited are junk and not relevant to the Syrian Crisis...They were chosen for an agenda of intolerance while all other relevant data was ignored.

I understand this requires critical thinking and maybe the UN underestimated certain folks in the US ability to compare statistics and think. But there is nothing in these numbers that support the OP.

HERE IS THE RELEVANT NUMBERS
data.unhcr.org...

originally posted by: Flighty
Also with so many young men, I hope Germany doesn't go the same way as Sweden where rape has risen over 400%

No, we don't go that same way. Since we let the refugees pass through and let them walk over the Denish border, we send all the rapists to the north. Thus the sudden rise in the last days, I guess.
Or what time frame are we talking about?

Where is the data and where is the relevance to the refugees, who are still on the march? You people throw in numbers here without any clear data and sense.

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: ElectricUniverse
OP TITLE: 72% of refugees fleeing war and oppression are men.

You can now agree that the data cited is specifically for refugees arriving on the shores of Greece and Italy and does not include the larger refugee population as a whole?

Maybe you're honestly misunderstanding. I worked my way through your wall of text twice, and now could be as confused as you are.

The above quote shows where you first went off the rails. This thread is about the massive wave of African and Middle-Eastern immigrants attempting to make their way into wealthy European countries, all of whom are being referred to as 'refugees.'

Two key points revealed in the thread so far:
Nearly 75% of them are male.

Only half of them claim to come from Syria (and many refugees from other countries are falsely claiming to be Syrian).

The bit in parentheses is sourced from reports by various news outlets which say authorities are finding credentials belonging to non-Syrian near Hungarian borders. The other two statements come straight from the graphic on the UN website linked several times in the thread.

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

You really don't get it, right? Indigo did his best to be as clear and specific as possible. It's not his fault.

People tried since page 3 to point out that this 75% percentage has nothing to do with the overall number of refugees and that the same source shows a totally different picture of what is stated here.

You shouldn't call yourself "realist" if you deny the obvious.

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
[

The above quote shows where you first went off the rails. This thread is about the massive wave of African and Middle-Eastern immigrants attempting to make their way into wealthy European countries, all of whom are being referred to as 'refugees.'

Tried detail..now will try simple..


If "This thread is about the massive wave of African and Middle-Eastern immigrants attempting to make their way into wealthy European countries, all of whom are being referred to as 'refugees.'"

Then why is the OP and you citing stats (72% Male) for exclusively refugees arriving by sea in Greece and Italy, only in 2015? Totaling 300k?

VS.

The actual total number of "Middle-Eastern immigrants attempting to make their way into wealthy European countries"?

Such as the 4 Million cited here?
data.unhcr.org...

Could it be because the vastly more comprehensive stats show a 50/50 split on gender?

Also...

IF the OP was speaking specifically to arrivals in Greece and Italy by sea...Why did he cite the image of the boy that washed up on the beach as propaganda? That boy was on a Turkish Beach? Not Greece or Italy?

Two key points revealed in the thread so far:
Nearly 75% of them are male.

Yes...half of the arrivals (150k) by sea exclusively in Italy and Greece (300k) out of the 4 Million Refugees from Syria equals 3.5% of the refugees fleeing Syria. The 72% number is based on the total including North African Migrants, so we don't know what the gender breakdown is for the 50% coming from North Africa...or specifically from Syria, But rather than guess why not look at the larger sample of 4 Million.

the 7.5% sample that includes half North African Refugees are very likely economic migrants...looking for work...aka men.

Either way the numbers absolutely suck as supporting the claim...any which way you look at them.

a reply to: anticitizen

These guys don't think in the same way that the civilized world thinks. Women are chattle and have only half the status of a man according to their religion

a reply to: Tendencies And you obviously did not read one post.
They call that sheeple here. But I think "chattle" is another good word.

your response is based on summations and has no accurate information either. how about listening to someone in the thick of it where this is happening or watch some of the you tube videos of the waves of "refugees". Look up the word Hijrah, it is the original fleeing of Mohammad from Mecca which was then used as a war tactic to flood the lands via emigration that Muslims wanted to conquer. The caliphate is coming and many notable scholars have been predicting this with great accuracy for more than 20 years (yes, even before 9/11) a reply to: Indigo5

Here in Germany we have a word for this: Ballaballa.

But, of course, I was not meant. So forgive me for intervening your holy interpretations.

mmmm, I don't think you understand what chattel means. I was referring to how muslim men see their women as possessions. Chattel = Possession, property, tangible goods etc. sa reply to: Siddharta

Yes, I understand it all.

We are all going to be slaves and nobody is going to save us. So why bother about it?

Go home and stay save. The rest of us is going to do your job.

originally posted by: Talorc
I posted this comment in another thread but I supposed it'd be more appropriate here.

For the first time in history, young, able-bodied males flee from their homelands during wartime (rather than staying to fight like real men), and make demands on the countries they've fled to, rather than simply being grateful for being alive. All the while being pampered and coddled by naïve saps pushing their feel-good, hollow activist morality on the rest of us- many of whom don't even bother to go and help the refugees themselves, merely preaching on the Internet from their comfortable suburban homes, totally insulted from the whole situation.

Brought to you by Modernism®.

Well said.

When these marauders make it to my country to start their Caliphate (because this is exactly what this wave of "refugees" is the beginning of) I will be steadfast and die with my boots on fighting not running. I've tried to tell everyone I know for the last 20 years that this was coming. Christopher Hitchens warned about it since the 90s, various right wing European politicians have warned of it too for decades but what has been the response? Hitchens was seen as a drink fueled angry atheist while the politicians were seen as raving racists. Even the president of Algeria stood in front of the UN in the 70s and told them that Islam would conquer Europe through their women's wombs by out populating the indigenous people.

Well, look what's happening now because very few people educated themselves on this barbarous totalitarian, misogynistic ideology masquerading as a religion. The caliphate is coming, this is just the start. Within a few years they will have enough feet on the street in Europe to make a move against the current rulers because they will have used non conventional war tactics to bankrupt every country in the EU.