How to reduce Gun violence without gun control

We are living in disturbing times. Mass shootings are becoming an almost weekly occurrence. The victims vary, from coworkers to innocent bystanders to children. Its happening too frequently and we as a society need to do something about it.

There has been a call for more gun control measures to try to stop the problem. I do not believe this is the answer as there are a lot of other ways someone determined to do harm can do so. And realistically, guns are not the problem. Mental illness is the problem. Unless we address the root cause of WHY people are behaving this way, we wont stop the violence.

First and foremost, we need to change the way we recognize and address mental illness in America today. Our mental health care system is grossly inadequate. Its expensive, people often receive minimal treatment and most of the time the treatment is only marginally effective. We need to research how to improve this and we need to spend money to do it. As much as it takes. We need to start screening people at a very early age to see if there are potential problems, and start dealing with them in early childhood, instead of waiting until they become unstable and ill. If we take the money we spend on incarcerating people and spend it on early childhood care and education, many of those people wont need incarceration later. We are simply moving the money where it can do more good, and it has a positive societal result as well. And we need to make sure adequate care exists and its available to the people who need it, for as long as they need it.

Some work places are very competitive and hostile, and not everyone is up to working in that kind of environment. These kind of companies need to screen their employees better for potential violent individuals, and they should simply not put someone in a stressful position they are not going to be able to deal with in the type of work environment they create at their company. Companies should also have programs in place so when someone is terminated, they land on their feet long enough to recover from the job loss. And if there is concern about that persons mental state, there should be follow up counseling to help them. This is more cost effective than a string of lawsuits on an employer that is the site of a workplace shooting.

If we as a society start to have more compassion on these individuals, and try to help them, before tragedy strikes,we will most probably start to see a lot less gun violence. And everyone benefits, we will live in a safer more secure society.

Ok.
The above post is coming across my phone as the ats management notice about proper content.
Yet it has 2 flags and stars......
Am I not getting the real post or something?

So in replying to the topic at hand... IMO, this is already taking place. The Department of Homeland Security and other agencies have been purchasing a ridiculous amount of ammo for multiple calibers, some calibers not even used by law enforcement. Over the past few years this has caused a shortage in ammo because the manufacturers can't keep up with the demand. This action has caused the price of ammo to sky rocket, causing people not to buy it because they can't afford it or various stores are unable to stock their shelves.

I have always thought this was a strategy the liberals have been using since they can't get all of their crazy gun control laws passed. It's actually very smart on their part but also very obvious what they are doing. They found a loop-hole and they are using it. The solution for the people is for the munition companies to build additional manufacturing facilities to accommodate the demand. It's not like they're not going to sell the ammunition, because people are still buying it as quickly as it comes in. (those that can afford it)

Just my two cents, take it for what you think it's worth.

a reply to: openminded2011

Sorry, I dont know why that notice posted like that.

a reply to: openminded2011

potential violent individuals

Ugh. That includes everyone.

I get where your going with this but mental illness will never cease to exist. 7 billion people.. There's gonna be quite a few bad ones.

The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. So do your civic duty and pack some heat.

a reply to: openminded2011

If a person suffering from a mental illness is trying to find a gun to shoot some people with, but finds it very difficult to get one, the likelyhood of them doing significant damage to large groups of people is far less.
A gun makes it very easy to kill a lot of people quickly before they can be subdued, whereas a knife makes things a lot harder for the person to wound many people.
It's quite simple when you think about it.

a reply to: openminded2011

I think there is an increase in violence due to the shift in responsibility. It used to be that parents taught values, ethics and morals from the vantage of a cohesive family unit. Now the governments are rapidly removing the onus from the family and goverments are engaging in social engineering. Since the goverment really only teaches how to consume with an entitlement attitude, ethics, morals and values are thrown out the window . Of course violence will increase, without personally responsibility through the understanding of consequences the pendulum will swing to excess in all issues ranging from sex to corruption to violence and everything inbetween.

As a species, we are on an engineered path that can only end in the chains of bondage or a gaping precipice.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: Iamnotadoctor
a reply to: openminded2011

If a person suffering from a mental illness is trying to find a gun to shoot some people with, but finds it very difficult to get one, the likelyhood of them doing significant damage to large groups of people is far less.
A gun makes it very easy to kill a lot of people quickly before they can be subdued, whereas a knife makes things a lot harder for the person to wound many people.
It's quite simple when you think about it.

Wrong.

Mass Stabbing

A simple answer for a situation with an active shooter would be to have someone there to return fire.

Why do you think so many of these shooters go for places where the victims are likely unarmed?

We need to start screening people at a very early age to see if there are potential problems, and start dealing with them in early childhood, instead of waiting until they become unstable and ill.

Well, there's a tiny problem with that. The head shrinkers are pumping out new "disorders" by the bucket.They have something now that's called O.D.D. and A LOT of people fit the description.
www.mayoclinic.org...

DSM-5 criteria for diagnosis of ODD show a pattern of behavior that:

Includes at least four symptoms from any of these categories — angry and irritable mood; argumentative and defiant behavior; or vindictiveness
Occurs with at least one individual who is not a sibling
Causes significant problems at work, school or home
Occurs on its own, rather than as part of the course of another mental health problem, such as a substance use disorder, depression or bipolar disorder
Lasts at least six months

I personally know a kid who has been diagnosed with this. He is not rude to me, doesn't get in trouble at school and is all around a pretty good kid. He does however, act this way around his Mom. But that she was out screwing a new guy within 2 weeks after his Dad died couldn't possibly have anything to do with that, right? But, now he's has that label hung on him for good.

Psychiatry is finding new reasons to label folks at an alarming rate.
Don't like being pushed around? Must have a mental health problem.
Don't like the way government is handling things? Must have a mental health problem.
Don't like the way cops are treating people? Must have a mental health problem.
Believe in following the Constitution? You must really be nuts!
Fact is, if most people were put through some sort of test, they would be seen as borderline or outright fail. So, who gets to decide what guidelines are followed and who is "fit" to own a weapon?

a reply to: openminded2011

Hand out knives?

In all seriousness though, your OP hit the nail on the head in going after the problems with mental health infrastructure. The single root cause of ANY individual deciding to commit mass murder, since it is by definition an insane thing to do, is a lack of awareness of mental health related issues, and access to mental healthcare.

Also, there is too much focus on processing people through the system and getting them out, back to their homes, rather than making ABSOLUTELY sure that those who pose a threat to their fellow man are NOT released until such time as that threat does not merely lessen, but evaporates to a level commensurate with folk who have NOT suffered a specific or diagnosable mental disorder.

Mental health units MUST prepare themselves to identify all dangerous individuals and to keep people who pose a serious threat, away from the general population, for extended, and even indefinite periods, else these things will keep happening. The business element of mental healthcare provision should be eradicated from the playing field, and ONLY the results considered, because otherwise nothing will change and the cost will be used as an excuse to allow the deaths of innocent people.

a reply to: DAVID64

If you go back and read my original post, I stated that the mental health system as it stands doesnt work very well. What I am suggesting is a revamp to try to identify and treat potential mass shooters before they become violent.

a reply to: openminded2011

I wonder if all of the shootings on the streets of the inner cities are due to mental illness?
IMO, they are not. They are the symptom of a culture that doesn't fit in our society.
How do you change that culture? I don't have an answer for that question.

I just dont see how mental illness can be monitored, without everyone taking a mental illness test. And then who decides your mentally ill, what will happen to you, more medications, that part of the problem, to many meds. I totally agree with what your saying, but just how do we do it. People can be totally fine one day, and just snap the next, I think its more to do with everyday stress, and the way people deal with it. Well for one, we dont need to just pop a pill for one problem, and a pill for another problem, and a pill for this and that, eventually something has to give. I believe that this problem will not improve, until people can actually deal with everyday stress, without numbing the person problem with a pill. This is a very hard topic, and I get that people need certain meds, everyday. Just not the amount of medication that is so freely available at the first sign of a problem. This is an enormous situation, and is not an easy fix.

originally posted by: rockintitz

originally posted by: Iamnotadoctor
a reply to: openminded2011

If a person suffering from a mental illness is trying to find a gun to shoot some people with, but finds it very difficult to get one, the likelyhood of them doing significant damage to large groups of people is far less.
A gun makes it very easy to kill a lot of people quickly before they can be subdued, whereas a knife makes things a lot harder for the person to wound many people.
It's quite simple when you think about it.

Wrong.

Mass Stabbing

A simple answer for a situation with an active shooter would be to have someone there to return fire.

Why do you think so many of these shooters go for places where the victims are likely unarmed?

The problem here is that people like you don't want to have any restrictions on your guns.
So inevitably you have to say "nope, nope, wrong, can't happen, wrong, wrong, won't work, nope", to any suggestions, no matter how logical they are.

a reply to: KnightFire

We do have an issue with weapons of all kinds. Gun control means nothing. We had a woman in Detroit recently kill someone with a crock pot! A nut will use whatever means: knife, skillet, hammer or even a car...

FYI-Ammo: Not completely true, especially here in Michigan. Ammo is in abundance for all calibers. I think the only slight shortage (and its not even like that) is for a 22 LR round.

Prices went up about 20%...still in normal price range. 22, 32, 38, 40's, 45acp (mine) 9mm(mine), 357 mags(mine),10mm, 380's...all in the stores and readily available if not a one store, at another.

I have no trouble buying any. The only restriction I have seen is that some store will let you only buy so many boxes at a time, whereas other stores have amiling lists and will let you know when they are coming in before they even make it on the shelves

a reply to: openminded2011

I tend to agree and what I find interesting is that in the US in this day and time, there certainly exists the technology and science to adequately screen all children from the time they enter primary school and follow them through college and beyond if necessary for any manner and various types of mental illness. If that had been done, Sandy Hook, Columbine, the Aurora shootings could have been prevented.

Unfortunately, I suspect that a whole lot of money would be needed; there would doubtless be legal challenges and unfortunately, the Psychiatric industry may be part of the problem in that so many of these mass shooters appear to have been under the influence of SSRI's.

All those obstacles notwithstanding, it could be done.

a reply to: Iamnotadoctor

They have these things called bombs that kill FAR more than guns at one sitting.

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Except we always gear about how violence and violent crime has been on the steady decline for decades. Parents are still free to teach their kids what ever they want, no one is stopping them from doing that.

How is the gov removing the onus of the family?

a reply to: openminded2011

if that is the case then we are all mentally ill.

What's the difference between 'I punched the lounge when the cowboys lost' and 'I punched the lounge because the cowboys lost then I shot someone'? where is the line drawn?

What if inebriation drives people to do stupid things, do we take away their guns or their alcohol?