What is this about the masons?

Originally posted by Savonarolafrom my limited understanding of them

Well I suppose that sums up most of your writings, now to nit-pick at it.

I see masonic symbols around me in society

Yes America was founded, with some masons helping her along, such as George Washington, and like-wise they have many symbols in our society. For your information though, the symbology is on the dollar is NOT masonic. Also an interesting tid-bit, this january the Nevada State flag will be flying on top of the Washington Memorial for a month to comemorate Nevada freemasonry. As I told a friend, "That's going to be a shocker to the rest of the country"

I also reject it because I am friends with a woman who was once a DeMolay

And stop....I have never heard of a girl being in the DeMolay, very odd, are you sure you are even getting wrong information? Or are you not getting any info at ALL?

As polite and knowledgable as he was

Interesting that you follow a liar's word over a noble and polite knowledgable man, I'm not one to say you should have petitioned, in fact I'd probably be the one to blackball ya, but I will say you been duped by the "Emperor" to use your allegory. Your Yoda sounds more like the "Emperor" to me, I think you've been duped.

the greatest trick the devil ever played on the world was convinceing mankind that he doesn't exist.

This is rubbish, I was an atheist for about 10 years before I found Masonry, and masonry helped me to see the reality, that this universe is too complex to be accidental. While I still have my own religion that is a lot like taoism, but it is my own, I was at least freed from Atheist stupidity. And I don't think there is a heaven hell, all there is is a "creator//purpose//existance", everything else is a fancification of mankind to support their morality. But Masonry teaches you morals, without the threat of hell, because it is not a religion, it is just an idea.

materialistic 'brothers' is up to the task of decyphering spiritual truths when you deny the dark force behind all our woes

No mason I know is by any means "Materialistic" and I know I am more spiritual than you and probably even the pope, and I heavily believe in Fate, although that is WAY too much to discuss right now.

it's admirable indeed of the RC church to forbid membership - it goes against the teachings of the prophets and Christ

I hate to break this to you, but the RC church goes against the teachings of Jesus Christ, that is why there are Protestants and Freemasons.

intellect and the devil is no conception, he is a reality

Look around you and you see the designs of what would be called god, but you'll see no where the designs of a Demon.

It might be better if you placed your trust in God

I was wrong about the nothing on dollar bill is masonic, we masons have a saying. "In whom do you trust?" "In God." Or as is on the dollar, "In God We Trust."

The pentagram is truly evil, whatever you've been taught

I think you need to get your head out of your ass, and realize that there are 50Billion+ galaxies in this universe, you and your beliefs do not prevail. What prevails is the design that is common with ALL those 50 Billion galaxies, and your belief in a Devil, is what gives your satan "true" power, for Demons can only exist if we believe so, but God exists whether we believe so or not, for all his doings are intertwined in the universe.

God help us

God helps those who help themselves.

teaching bogus accounts of what they truly mean until the day they are ready for the truth.

A lie is a lie, you can not be led to believe something that is not taught truly from the start. Masonry is not full of dimwitts who can not reason. If the teachings changed as you progressed (Which they don't, FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE RIGHT HERE), we'd be the first to notice, not someone who knows so little about masonry, that their friend whom was a woman, was in DeMolay. That in itself is Magic!

Sincerely,
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Funny you should mention Phi Beta Kappa Byrd, because they just got the boot off our Campus for killing an initiate, petitioner whatever they call their incoming members.

Stupid wacko couldn't swim but the frat assured him he'd be safe swimming in the UNR lake, which is laughably only 15 feet deep, but I guess the cold and booze got to them and one ended up dead.

I've never heard EVER of someone dying being initiated into Freemasonry

Sincerely,
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Pledge, they call them pledges.

[Edited on 10-12-2002 by FreeMason]

"God helps those who help themselves."

I see. So, if God supports those who "help themselves", this would mean that "might makes right" and that one ought to "do unto others before they do unto you". If this is masonic morality, it's no wonder the world is going to hell.

We truly serve different Gods, you and I.

As to my DeMolay misnomer, I apologise. Her father was a freemason and she belonged to the freemasonry-for-kids chapter, or whatever it's really called - I wrongly assumed she was a member of the DeMolays. Thank you for the correction and please forgive me my ignorance.

Yes, the order evidenced in the observable universe denotes a creator, but you give no reason why it is impossible for some being (created by God and far beyond our capacity) to revolt against this order and it's creator. Men do it all the time, against parents, leaders, even God - who's to say a superior being with superior faculties wouldn't do the same?

Masonry might teach you morals, just like they preach equality and liberty (didn't Satan promise the same?) but those morals are based upon two different sets of laws; one for insiders and one for outsiders. If the law is not upheld for all men and justice is dispensed by those in the know for those in the know, then there are really two laws... one set for masons and another set for the average joe. Masonic morals, bah!

Masons are materialistic; many join to make the contacts they might need to get further in life (ie., to pursue material comforts, power, money, etc). Please don't try to deny that the bonds forged in freemasonry don't have a place outside of the lodge. How many fellow masons got hired on to their present jobs due to freemason influence? How many are given preference for loans or even political power becasue of their secret liasons?

I "see the designs" of a demon in war, in the sanctions against Iraq that are directly responsible for the deaths of somewhere between one and 3 million children. These same designs I see in the philosophy of the "new world order", a term most recently used by Pat Buchanen (if you want the quote, let me know). Nothing but demonic influence could cook up the concentration camps, gas ovens, and surgical experiments carried out by the Nazis; same thing with the millions that died in the Soviet Union in the name of 'brotherly love" or comradeship.

One does not build a house merely to burn it down. A man is not created to be killed. The Creator said "Thou shalt not kill". Those who do are of the Devil.

"A lie is a lie, you can not be led to believe something that is not taught truly from the start". The nazis believed Hitler, a lier. Millions of people believe in Anthony Robbins, a lier. The citizens of the United States are told by Dubya that Saddam is a threat to their security, and that is why he's pushing for war. He doesn't tell them the real reason they are going to war is because the U.S. needs their oil. As population goes up, demand for oil goes up, supply of oil is limited - we have nearly used up 50% of the world's oil... Bush is lying and they are believing him (even if the rest of the world knows its a lie). Therefore, you can be led to believe something that is "not taught truly from the start".

I never said freemasons were dimwits. On the other hand, thousands of 'geniuses' around the globe are constantly thinking up new convieniences that are destroying our environment. They are smart enough to know how to make a combustable engine, but they don't have the prescience with which to forsee the environmental consequences that will take place because of their genius. Herein lies the difference between intelligence and wisdom.

Have a good one,

-�

Originally posted by Savonarola
We truly serve different Gods, you and I.

I don't serve god, we weren't made to be slaves, and god is not a master.

Masons are materialistic; many join to make the contacts they might need to get further in life

When you petition it clearly states that no one shall join for mercenary purposes, or for business contacts, and when you speak with the people who would sign your petition they'll tell you this.

How many are given preference for loans or even political power becasue of their secret liasons

There are more 3rd party members in politics then there are Masons in all of politics, any party.

war, in the sanctions against Iraq that are directly responsible for the deaths of somewhere between one and 3 million children.

Your figures are wrong, and I could have sworn I posted somewhere, maybe it was on another forum, all the information anyone could ever ask for that shows that Saddam killed the 1.5 million, not the UN's sanctions.

As I always say, he chose to make Chemical plants, not farms, missile research facilities, not hospitals, so on...

but those morals are based upon two different sets of laws; one for insiders and one for outsiders

No the sets of morals are our guidelines, it would be wise to note never to judge another with your own tools, for they may be set differently. George Washington had masonic morals, is he a satanist too?

same thing with the millions that died in the Soviet Union in the name of 'brotherly love" or comradeship.

Don't even go there, comparing Freemasonry to Soviet Union or Nazism is sickening, as one who would know what Communism in the Soviet Union was on a more personal level, I can tell you, the only reason Russia isn't falling to peices this instance is because of the Russian Grand Lodge of Freemasonry.

As population goes up, demand for oil goes up, supply of oil is limited - we have nearly used up 50% of the world's oil... Bush is lying and they are believing him

I understand what you are getting at, but I'm taking this quote out of context to point out the fact that there is evidence now that supports Oil is by far more unlimited then we previously believed. Research shows that Oil might be formed through A-biogenesis processes rather than the previously thought bio-degredation. Now it is believed it seeps up from much deeper in the earth.

On the other hand, thousands of 'geniuses' around the globe are constantly thinking up new convieniences that are destroying our environment. They are smart enough to know how to make a combustable engine, but they don't have the prescience with which to forsee the environmental consequences that will take place because of their genius.

No, as listening to lecture after lecture about the chemistry involved in all this, it is our job to forsee the consequences before, and when we can not, to react when they happen. The combustable engine is here to stay for a long time still, because in all our technological might, it still requires more energy to make hydrogen, than it does to drill for oil.

Now ask yourself, if we were to use coal fired plants to produce the energy for hydrogen, that'd be a LOT of coal being used, if we were to use something more like windmills, well everyone's house and dog house would have to have one to produce enough hydrogen to fuel our cars. So where is this power going to come from? The only reliable source is Nuclear, but we all know the bi-products from that. The fact is Hydrogen as a Fuel is not easily produced.

Wisdom comes from experience, our age fails us in our experience in technology, we do not live long enough to see the consequences. Your lack of experience with freemasonry, weakens your wisdom in the area. There is plenty of research you must do before making any allegation, and you must seek out more sources than one friend, whom being a child when experienced to probably Job's Daughters, she is probably clouded more with anger than with knowledge of Job's Daughters, or maybe Rainbow Girls, but in either way, she has no experience with Freemasonry, in the least bit.

As for the designs of Devilry, look around you, all of it is MAN MADE! Anything made of nature (god) is not demonic, this is why we all must subdue our passions, and become masters of ourselves.

It is sad, it seems you have fallen into opinions, no longer able to see the truth before you without tainting it. Ma-Ha-Bone is the same way, but his opinions are backed with a lot of research. Most of which different interpretations or the acts of men and not the organization.

I'd like to point out, my thread about polytheism in the bible, when I was taking quotes from the Bible that supported Polytheism, Christians better knowledged in the bible would correct me, and explain the subtleties or the meanings of those passages.

There is no difference with Freemasonry, many criticize it, but like with christianity or any thing else, your basis is not well founded, for we do not perceive what you perceive.

Now because of polytheism the support of violence and various other factors of the bible (It's claim to being prophetic of unforseen events), I can claim that the Bible is a tool of Satan, and that the God in the Bible is a two faced God that will enslave all of mankind.

Now I doubt you see it that way, I doubt anyone really does, and the same goes for masonry, only where we see light, and understanding, others see satanism and heresy. The Catholic Church shunned Freemasonry because of our Freedoms, not because of our beliefs.

Catholicism shunned all free thinkers, Galilleo, Copernicus, and because of this, Freemasonry found a new purpose from its old days of building churches, and the Church saw this ultimate threat. Existing in a land untouchable by the Church, seperated from the rest of society so that freedom of thought was not suppressed by societies pressures.

If you could find circumstantial proof that Freemasonry is anything you claim it to be, I'd be hats off to you, however, so far you seem simply very opinionated against masonry, and nothing more.

Sincerely,
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"that there is evidence now that supports Oil is by far more unlimited then we previously believed"

Unfortunate if it's true. Running out of oil may have saved this planet.

"Your lack of experience with freemasonry, weakens your wisdom in the area"

My experience in the system that freemasons helped create makes me an expert on freemasonry.

"As for the designs of Devilry, look around you, all of it is MAN MADE!"

Correct, but if you research the Kabbalah and the book of Enoch you might find that mankind didn't invent language, weapons, and science; the fallen angels brought it all to him - we bit of the fruit of knowledge, so to speak, but we were tempted by a being. Our technological advances within the past two hundred years are truly mind-boggling - it defys rational explanation. Scientific method, and its improvement, may be the major cause... but I'd just as soon bet that spiritual forces have been teaching us these things. One doesn't simply go from driving horse and buggy to the ability to destroy the face of the planet in a matter of 200 years - when modern man has existed in his present form for the past 2 million years (?) - it's just not done!

A terrible trade has been undertaken to make all of this possible, I don't think we're capable of this quick an advance.

How many of the "free thinkers" shunned by the RCs were freemasons? Were they shunned because they offended the church, or were the shunned because they were freemasons?

By the way, were Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy freemasons? How about the vice presidents that took over the Office after they were assassinated?

This has been fun. I'll see you guys tomorrow.

Go with God.

-�-

I've watched this discussion for a bit.
"Masonry is about the only thing left on earth, where its members hold true to its oaths of morality. " Freemason.

The morals that Freemason refers to are humorous. According to Mr.Pike, the moral code is 'situation ethics'.
Pgs 163-167 of Morals and Dogma, alludes quite often to the impossibility of Freemasons 'oaths of morality'.
The Mason '...is not confined to set forms of thought, of action or feeling. He accepts what his mind regards as true, what his conscience decides is right...all else he puts far from him.' Interesting, considering the nature of an oath....'His mind acts after the universal law of intellect...' more, 'No man is entitled positively to assert that he is right where other men, equally intelligent and equally well informed, hold directly the opposite opinion.' no right and wrong? and 'It holds that each man is absolutely sovereign as to his own belief, and that belief is a matter absolutely foreign to all who do not entertain the same belief.'
Situation Ethics are defined as; a system of ethics according to which moral rules are not absolutely binding but may be modified in light of specific situations.
To sum up, I doubt that Freemason has taken any oaths of morality, as Freemasonry allows people of all religious persuasions within its ranks. Morality varies within different religions.
Savon, the only way to argue with Byrd and Freemason is to get the information straight from their sources and throw it back at them.
Freemason, you haven't responded to my Albert Pike excerpt yet. If you are really interested in it, I'm sure you could use your Fraternal connections to get a copy of it to validate it...but, you won't. Close your eyes, its'
still there....

Originally posted by Savonarly
By the way, were Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy freemasons? How about the vice presidents that took over the Office after they were assassinated?

Abraham Linconl was going to be made a mason, but was killed, his successor was NOT a Freemason.

J.F.K. Was not a Freemason, and his successor was NOT a freemason. Lyndon B. Johnson was initiated, and then left, not formally leaving he just simply stopped going, he never progressed past the 1st degree, and he never attended Lodge. So he is effectively not a mason.

Ma-Ha-Bone you surely don't understand Morals and Dogma if you think that Pike is not writing ABOUT Morality, and how freemasonry teaches it. Pike was not an anti-mason, nothing he says goes against masonry, how anti-masons make it seem that his whole book shows all the ills and deceit of freemasonry escapes me.

Read the very last sentence in Morals and Dogma, it should give you as start in understanding it.

Originally posted by Ma-Ha-Bone
To sum up, I doubt that Freemason has taken any oaths of morality, as Freemasonry allows people of all religious persuasions within its ranks. Morality varies within different religions.

Hmm....Obviously you have never heard of the "Volume of Sacred Law". Intruiging, maybe this is where all your misunderstandings stem from?

Sincerely,
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[Edited on 11-12-2002 by FreeMason]

Freemason,

----In an act that would haunt Andrew Johnson during his impeachment trial; just seven hours before Lincoln's assassination, John Wilkes Booth left a note at Vice President Andrew Johnson's residence that read "Don't wish to disturb you. Are you at home? J. Wilkes Booth."

Shortly after his impeachment investigation began, Albert Pike and Gen. Gordon Granger met with President Andrew Johnson for some three hours at the White House. Soon afterwards, when Granger was summoned before the Judiciary Committee, he was asked to disclose the substance of that conversation with the president. Granger testified:

"They [President Johnson and Pike] talked a great deal about Masonry. More about that than anything else.. And from what they talked about between them, I gathered that he [Pike] was the superior of the President in Masonry. I understood from the meeting that the president was his subordinate in Masonry...."----

So, Johnson, Lincoln's successor was a mason. And Johnson, Kennedy's successor, was a mason - though, according to you, this Johnson quit after being initiated.

I may be grasping here, but how many U.S. presidents have been/are freemasons? How many freemason presidents have been assassinated as opposed to non-freemasons?

Plans within plans. Feints within feints

-�-

On the other hand, thousands of 'geniuses' around the globe are constantly thinking up new convieniences that are destroying our environment. They are smart enough to know how to make a combustable engine, but they don't have the prescience with which to forsee the environmental consequences that will take place because of their genius

Right. Let's imagine life without the auto.

I live in a suburb of Dallas. In 2001, the census showed that there were about 21,325,018 citizens living here (21 million). Just imagine Dallas without technological advances...

...10 million horses (pooping all over the place) to do business and get around the area.
...10 million outhouses, discharging into the watershed with no direct treatment.
...no phones to summon police, or ambulance (and they are limited on arrival by horse transportation)
...5-10 million dogs, pooping.
...livestock in the city (cows, chickens, pigs at your neighbors' houses. With their waste products.)
...800,000 miles of dusty, oiled roads (not paved)
...hospitals with gaslights and no electricity.
...every home burns coal for heat and cooking.
...no air conditioning, and Dallas gets hot in the summer.
...no regular trash pickup.

Just imagine what that city would smell like; what damage it would do to the environment.

Byrd,

Without modern medicine there wouldn't be 21 million people in Dallas. Without modern industry we wouldn't need to commute to work and then back home every day. Without the need to commute every day, we wouldn't need vehicles as much (even horse and buggy) and, as a consequence, our earth could sustain us indefinately.

If you'd like another example of genius without common sense, take a look at Einstein - he developed theories which he supposed could lead to a superweapon like the atomic bomb - he knew it could be done - and he still published those theories. History will always remember him as being the one that 'warned' the Americans about Germany's nuclear program, but he was the one that gave birth to the atomic age, and hence, the atomic bomb.

Because of Einstein's lack of foresight:

-tens of thousands of Japanese were vapourized (murdered, really) by the american atomic bomb;

-Chernobyl went boom and the people of the Ukraine still suffer horribly from the fallout;

-Russia has dumped tons upon tons of iron barrels containing nuclear waste into the arctic ocean;

-The children of Iraq and the former Yugoslavia are being born with the highest rate of birth deformaties and cancers in the world, probably due to the tons of depleted uranium munitions dumped on them by the Americans and British;

-It's a good bet Gulf War Syndrome is caused by DU;

Einstein sure was smart, but what an idiot!

'Acting stupid is often smart.'

Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #15

-�-

p.s. My point is, we are living the good life for now but there will be a turning point. We cannot continue this way.

Savonarola
So, Johnson, Lincoln's successor was a mason. And Johnson, Kennedy's successor, was a mason - though, according to you, this Johnson quit after being initiated.

I bet you got that off of Freemasonry Watch? LoL because Johnson was not ever a Freemason, and I don't believe that Pike ever met with him, considering pike at the time was probably being interrogated by union officials, considering he was a Confederate General, and this was shortly after the war.

Freemasonrywatch lies more than anything, be mindful of your sources boy.

About 9 or 10 presidents were freemasons, a while back I posted the list of politicians and such that were freemasons, and the whole country for over 200 years, has had very few masons in decent positions in government, much less than is claimed by non-masons.

Abraham Lincoln was assassinated, so that is 1 masonic president killed, although he was killed before he even was initiated. Such a shame.

Sincerely,
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Rather than cover up my tracks and just delete that HORRIBLY wrong post, I'll just post this instead.

Here is a website of the 14 Masonic Presidents, yes Andrew Johnson was one of them

But as you'll notice, below that is a footnote explaining how Abraham Lincoln was to become a Mason as well. So that there kinda shoots down the theory that the Masons had anything to do with his death.

Booth probably gave Johnson that note simply to throw the government into further disaray, which it did. Booth knew like most that if Abraham's decree of rebuilding the south was put down, the war would flare up again. Andrew Johnson was a staunch supporter of Abraham's presidency, and did little to deviate from it.

The web site is here:

www.mastermason.com...

Sincerely,
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Sincerely,
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Now, I want to stand in that corner over there and think about what you did!

-�-

I never said that Albert Pike was anti-mason!! Where do you get that??
As far as the Volume of Sacred Law, answer this, how can differing religions that teach differing morality, be confined to one law? As far as Morals and Dogma go, the book refers to morals as being a personal matter for the individual Freemason, not relevant to any Dogma. It suggests that the only 'moral' that must be obtained is 'judge not' with regards to other Masons, yet I also find it amusing that Freemasons are 'allowed' by this same observance to 'judge those that aren't Freemasons' hence your usage of the derogatory tern 'cowen's'. Why don't you provide an explaination as to how such a great and wonderful institution, dedicated to the highest of moral standards has terms of condescendance for those not of its ranks? Plus, it might also be good if you responded to my other posts, unless you are withheld by oath of course, to discuss the truth.

Originally posted by Ma-Ha-Bone
how can differing religions that teach differing morality, be confined to one law?

Because Ma...that is what is agreed upon. That the morals in it, are to be respected, and followed. Know what moralities Masonry preaches, and you'll see why the morals do not differ from religious book to religious book.

Originally posted by Ma-Ha-Bone
Why don't you provide an explaination as to how such a great and wonderful institution, dedicated to the highest of moral standards has terms of condescendance for those not of its ranks?

Because this is a historical reference. The Term Cowan does not apply to non-masons, but rather to people who do not work towards their ends. It was used in the Operational days as a term for people who pretended to be Freemasons, or someone of the Free Stonemasons, without having been an apprentice for 7 years, and never having turned in his "masters peice" and being accepted as a fellow craft, and raised as a Master Mason.

Sincerely,
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[Edited on 17-12-2002 by FreeMason]

ooops, my bad, i hit the wrong button

[edit on 13-8-2004 by Nosferatu Zodd]

oops

[edit on 6-2-2006 by spaceman16]

Originally posted by Lupe
The Masons are the human chapter of the reptoid class of E.T. that come from the hollow earth.

Masons are predominantly involved in ferrying babies to the secret base under Dulce to provide food for the reptillian overlords.

Under pressure from the grays many Masons also helped construct the set for the faked apollo moon landing though like many others I believe this was simply a way of distracting us from the zionist conspiracys to bring about the NWO in complicitation with ENRON, the Bin Ladan family and David Icke.

just slip a few of those terms into your next chat with "daddy" and see how long it takes for him to start sweating.

be vigilent.....

watch the skys.

It seems to me that you have a problem with us. Like you had a bad experience and you only want to point out things that aren’t true and started because of similar occasions. And where did you get this information anyway?

Heh. Ummmmm, Lupe was kidding

Just for y'alls info - you aren't killed for leaving Freemasonry.
I know this for a fact as my father left, because we moved cities and he
didn't go to the local lodge.

No problem. No issue. He just stopped going. Heck, they even supported my family for YEARS, even though he wasn't attending.

Wow.....that SURE IS EVIL huh?