WTO Ruling Against India's Solar Push Threatens Climate, Clean Energy

If only those in power thought in terms of environment and not economy.....

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
If only those in power thought in terms of environment and not economy.....

Which do you prefer? Nature spills or Man-made spills? Natures never goes wrong with it's spills..
What a cool pic, thanks for sharing, rings so true ain't it.

Peace

a reply to: InnerPeace2012

When nature makes a spill she cleans up after herself,man on the other hand seems to make a spill and plugs it with a band aid and move on to the next project

It is a good pic,sometimes a visual is needed to put things in perspective

Sorry a question more than valuable input

How many times have we been told "buy American"
I mean isn't that the rhetoric?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: TrueBrit


I am not surprised, but I am disgusted.

When governments do horrible things, and The People are not surprised...it is a pretty damning condemnation of The People.

Us saying we aren't surprised is admitting that we identified risk that we failed to address. In some cases this kind of thing can be criminal. But when it comes to voting...its just business as usual. Meanwhile, we still get to insult our intelligence by participating in the farcicle political dialogue.

A condemnation that they have realized they never had a choice anyways ??

I would say it is a good sign, all of the rest of the time nothing was addressed, methinks you are living in fantasy land.

Just how do you proclaim addressing the risk ??

I know the Global Climate Warming Change people think that by posting on internet forums THAT will do something about it.

I for one am glad that most have finally realized the vote is and always WAS meaningless.

Are you serious that you EVER thought your vote had any impact ???

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: FyreByrd

By the way, those 'American Manufacturers' that were 'discriminated' against most likely do all their 'manufacturering' in China or other wage slave countries not in the US.

Oooo careful now, you may get sued for telling it how it is.

And honestly by now if people dont see this as tyranny I don't know what will. I as an american approve of india's move to do this because I support EARTH, not the greedy lobbyists.

I wonder what would happen if the entire world actually did what india was planning. This just goes to show, who is halting humanity's progression and the reason is greed and power. Honestly India, should just ignore them and move on with their plans. because rest assured, people may have fallen for the ruse of terrorists in afganistan , iraq etc, but what will they do about the peaceful monks which is very popular in the new age movement that they themselves promote?

The peaceful monks will have more support from the worlds people so honestly, if they have the guts to move forward with their plans, they do have the peoples support worldwide. Just not those at wallstreet ^_-.

Oh please India DO IT JUST DO IT IGNORE THE THREATS!!! even if you end up being a martyr in the end.

Edit, Someone should start a petition supporting India on this choice.

a reply to: ParasuvO

"If voting made a difference they wouldn't let us do it".
.
-Mark Twain

Hello All. I am new to ATS, though a long time reader (how many times have I read almost that exact same sentence written by others?), and I have finally taken the plunge and plan to dive in.

Now, I am a former Alarmist who has become a firm Climate Realist since about 2006. Up to that point, I was so concerned about carbon dioxide that I would lose sleep many nights. Every time we had a heat wave I would think, as a good AGW convert, "my race is destroying the Earth with Co2".

Around 2006 I decided to set aside my beliefs, and dive into the scientific literature. A year and a half later, I was firmly in a Realist.

Essentially, there is no scientific basis for the alarmist position that co2 drives climate, and is somehow making weather worse, droughts longer, storms more violent, and all the other supposed ills caused by man's microscopic emissions of co2.

I have debated this topic in many forums, on facebook pages, with customers of mine, and in other venues of great diversity. I have been called a shill for big oil, and accused of being funded by big oil. I have been called a Nazi Sympathizer, a person who would have supported the Holocaust, and many other lesser names and accusations that are quite laughable.

I have never returned the favor, always opting to debate on the facts, and ignore the name calling and smearing that is so common of the AGW camp. In the end, myself, along with scientists who backed me up, have been banned, censored, and blocked because we are simply right: Alarmism has no basis in science.

I have noticed ATS is largely warmist/alarmist, and I am here to, as always, try to bring facts into the debate, and de-emotionalize it.

I hope you all can treat me with some respect, as I will do the same for you. I will not call you names, and I do not care if you agree with me. I am here to discuss facts, and if you do not wish to accept them, that is perfectly fine by me, so long as we can talk as friends and equals, in respect, about the subject.

I noticed a meme on this page that I have oft seen. wind spills, solar spills, etc., don't cause pollution. My friends, this is simply not true. Vast tracts of China are being destroyed in the pursuit of so-called green energy, harvesting and processing rare minerals needs in such construction projects, and that's just for starters.

Green energy, as it's called, cannot power our needs. There are not enough reserves of the needed minerals on planet Earth to construct a green energy grid sufficient to power even a fraction of our needs. It is a pipe dream. It's also an environmentally degrading pipe dream, and it condemns billions of the world's poor to a life of suffering, and acute deprivation.

Now, once I get five posts churned out, I will make my own Topic threads full of referenced evidence proving this, as well as every other facet, of the argument I'll be making. I look forward to it, and thank you all, realist and alarmist alike, for taking the time to talk about these things.

One last thing. At heart I'm an environmentalist. I have an organic farm, and I make my living from it, providing thousands with good healthy non-GMO foods. We are the ideal low carbon family farm, but I will never used that term as it is the environmental cop out du jour. My goal is ever, and always, the truth. My secondary goal is to reclaim the cause of environmentalism from the forces that have high jacked it in the name of slaying a sky dragon called global warming.

Thank you.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

LOL! Thanks for that!

The US couldn't even handle North Korea and you think India is a tin pot dictatorship which will crumble just because the US threatens to bomb it??

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
If only those in power thought in terms of environment and not economy.....

Ya, gotta love those windmills...

a reply to: FyreByrd

The big debacle, the so call "free trade' nothing but the enslavement of developing countries to follow the rules and laws of the more affluent countries for preservation of the wealth of special interest, those behind the global warming scam of carbon tax and credits eyes India as a consumer of those carbon credits because of their status of developing country.

Global warming ugly face, the face of profiting, control and money, what a great example of the such ironic fight for the clima.

India is a big polluter as it grows in manufacturing without oversight. That is good for American companies that relies on this littler fact to pollute somewhere else.

Now India wants to take things in their own hands to benefit their own population and to do something to help with energy and what they get, they get to be admonished for been innovators.

I say to India, give a finger to the WTO and show the rest of the world that you care about your own people

So much for sovereign nations being, you know... sovereign.


If "Free Trade" was actually named for what it truly is, it would be called:

"Free (To Dictate Corporate Policy Against Any Country We Choose On A Whim) Trade"


Foreign corporate tribunals filing grievances against countries daring to set their own energy policies...?

What a disgusting sham the global market has become.

originally posted by: InnerPeace2012
Which do you prefer? Nature spills or Man-made spills? Natures never goes wrong with it's spills..

Who are you kidding?

When "nature" spills, we have extinction level events.

originally posted by: AlphaPred
Sorry a question more than valuable input

How many times have we been told "buy American"
I mean isn't that the rhetoric?

It used to be - 20/30 years ago. When have you heard it since NAFTA? I suspect not very often.

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

You fail to note: How many birds killed by chemical pesticides and herbicides. Or how many birds killed because of loss of habitat. Or killed by airplanes or cell towers or... or.

Where birds considered at all when we deployed this other destructive technologies, I think not.

It's important to consider the effects of these technologies on the environment but, personnally if I were arguing against wind turbines, I would have gone the mining required for materials to manufacture and the attendant energy costs therein myself.

C-

I don't think India will simply roll over and comply. The country has a tendency to react in a similar fashion to those putting restrictions on them.

This, on top of massive lack of electrification around the provinces and cities would not sit well with the average person, if they know anything about this situation. India is really progressing despite many challenges, and electricity will help them develop much faster. Maybe that is one concern with the Westerners - India is not destabilized enough for their liking.

a reply to: FPV2015

No you are not a former alarmist nor an environmentalist. What you did there was write a persuasive argument that is not backed by science.

We can power the world with green energy, to say we cannot tells me you have a vested interest in the petro business.

CO2 is important in terms of the Earth's climate, currently as a result of man's addiction to fossil fuel we have seen a significant increase of CO2. To deny this will affect like climate is willfully choosing ignorance over science.

This ruling shows how much of a grip the energy giants have on the world's trade. I hope India decides to kick the WTO out as a result of this clearly biased ruling.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

You fail to note: How many birds killed by chemical pesticides and herbicides. Or how many birds killed because of loss of habitat. Or killed by airplanes or cell towers or... or.

Where birds considered at all when we deployed this other destructive technologies, I think not.

It's important to consider the effects of these technologies on the environment but, personnally if I were arguing against wind turbines, I would have gone the mining required for materials to manufacture and the attendant energy costs therein myself.

C-

I didn't fail to note anything! I replied to a post with pictures of how wind mills are better for birds than oil spills. It reminded me of things I've read about mills chopping birds to death. I guess you missed the point.

I think what sucks most (well, second to the action itself) is that the US is pursuing this suppression of green technology and national freedom, while they stress the need for it to their own population.

More two-faced agenda.