What makes us evolve (in terms of thought or activity)?

a reply to: beezzer

I don't see how you can think this. There is plenty of stress in the world. Much of it is mental stress, and in some parts of the world, physical stress. Either of these can affect reproduction rate. And if that isn't enough, the invention of contraception and its distribution is a tremendous change. Reproduction rates are very different now than since before the invention of simple methods of contraception. And certainly other things in society are affecting these rates as well.

a reply to: Skid Mark

There is no cure for stupidity.

a reply to: nonjudgementalist

Why do you think that de-evolution is not discussed on MSM?

a reply to: VP740

This seems very optimistic. We have some small subset of humanity accumulating various tidbits of knowledge, but the future of mankind is determined by the masses, who are largely immune to this accumulation process. Thinking about generalities means that the details can destroy us.

a reply to: Phage

I would disagree. Evolution is all about selective reproduction rates. Those who choose to reproduce a lot are evolving the species by their will, as are those who choose not to reproduce. This is the strongest evolutionary effect not occurring. And it is all 'will'.

Very rarely do we consider the impact that behavior (and therefore intelligence) has on evolutionary trajectories. Humans can willfully direct the evolution of certain organisms (through breeding for instance), while indirectly affecting the evolution of many others. Niche construction is another example of this, although often ignored.

Evolution is the transfer of information as I see it. In this context, as it would pertain to humans for instance, one should consider the impact of cultural inheritance.

a reply to: nonjudgementalist

The simple answer is: our biology.

a reply to: nonjudgementalist

I do believe it is God that allows us to evolve. Evolution is God's creative technique in time/space. In the early days of life on a planet, certain sons of God foster evolution. Meaning they guide evolution until the appearance of will. What we call mind is the combination of many factors, but the foundation for all creature mind is The Seven Adjutant Mind-Spirits. They are called spirits, but it is easier to conceive of them as circuits. They are:

1. The spirit of intuition — quick perception, the primitive physical and inherent reflex instincts, the directional and other self-preservative endowments of all mind creations; the only one of the adjutants to function so largely in the lower orders of animal life and the only one to make extensive functional contact with the nonteachable levels of mechanical mind.

2. The spirit of understanding — the impulse of co-ordination, the spontaneous and apparently automatic association of ideas. This is the gift of the co-ordination of acquired knowledge, the phenomenon of quick reasoning, rapid judgment, and prompt decision.

3. The spirit of courage — the fidelity endowment — in personal beings, the basis of character acquirement and the intellectual root of moral stamina and spiritual bravery. When enlightened by facts and inspired by truth, this becomes the secret of the urge of evolutionary ascension by the channels of intelligent and conscientious self-direction.

4. The spirit of knowledge — the curiosity-mother of adventure and discovery, the scientific spirit; the guide and faithful associate of the spirits of courage and counsel; the urge to direct the endowments of courage into useful and progressive paths of growth.

5. The spirit of counsel — the social urge, the endowment of species co-operation; the ability of will creatures to harmonize with their fellows; the origin of the gregarious instinct among the more lowly creatures.

6. The spirit of worship — the religious impulse, the first differential urge separating mind creatures into the two basic classes of mortal existence. The spirit of worship forever distinguishes the animal of its association from the soulless creatures of mind endowment. Worship is the badge of spiritual-ascension candidacy.

7. The spirit of wisdom — the inherent tendency of all moral creatures towards orderly and progressive evolutionary advancement. This is the highest of the adjutants, the spirit co-ordinator and articulator of the work of all the others. This spirit is the secret of that inborn urge of mind creatures which initiates and maintains the practical and effective program of the ascending scale of existence; that gift of living things which accounts for their inexplicable ability to survive and, in survival, to utilize the co-ordination of all their past experience and present opportunities for the acquisition of all of everything that all of the other six mental ministers can mobilize in the mind of the organism concerned. Wisdom is the acme of intellectual performance. Wisdom is the goal of a purely mental and moral existence.

a reply to: StanFL

Time and the production of large numbers of a species are not the controlling influences. Mice reproduce much more rapidly than elephants, yet elephants evolve more rapidly than mice.

the term "evolve" is among the most misused and abused terms in the english language. "Evolve" is akin to words like "synergy" and "proactive". Its a buzz word that has a rather nondescript meaning that is so arbitrary that it means something different from person to person.

Humans are humans. What humans have always been. The last "evolution" event in humanity was the interbreeding with denisovan and neanderthal populations. The last "behavioral" evolution was the rise of agrarian culture.

This is what is known as a "paradigm shift". That is what it will take. A paradigm shift. An example of a paradigm shift situation would be the advent of free energy, or the establishment of A.I. ("god") on Earth. Outside of that...it just monkeys wearing hairless suits. Inside our minds and out.

What makes us evolve? Extinction level events and big environmental changes. Basically pressure, like many others have hinted at.

Where does this pressure come from? Well, we have been in an ice age for the past 2.5 million years. It's no coincidence that it is almost the exact time frame for the development of the homo genus.

Ice ages basically go in cycles bouncing from warm to cold and this has been happening since this particular ice age began. Right now we are still in an ice age, but are in an interglacial period (period of warmth).

Here's the time line. The years aren't exact, they averages.

The last glacial period lasted from 110,000 years ago until about 12,000 years ago. Homo sapiens are the only hominid survivors of that period. Prior to 70,000 years ago, Neanderthal, Denisovans, Homo erectus and Homo sapiens all coexisted. Basically this shows me that Homo sapiens survived this period while the others did not. It is natural selection in action. Neanderthals and Denisovans disappeared around 30-40k years ago. The glacial maximum during that period was around 26,000 years ago. It seems like their extinction is way too close to this period to be coincidence. I firmly believe homo sapien ingenuity is what propelled us, while the others bit the dust.

Prior to the last glacial period, we had another warm period that ranged from about 115-130k years. Compared to the ice age, that is a very short time.

Before that we had another glacial period that went from about 200-130k years ago. Around 200,000 years ago is coincidentally right near where we find the oldest homo sapien fossils, and right around when Homo Heidelbergensis went extinct. So another species goes extinct during the glacial period.

200,000 - 240,000: Interglacial with a mini cooling spike right in the middle. Another short warm period, likely the period when late heidelbergensis transitioned to homo sapien.

240,000 - 300,000: Glacial period. This is the period where Neanderthal likely split off from Heidlebergenesis and also the beginning is right around where the earliest homo rhodensiensis fossils are seen.


300,000 - 330,000: Interglacial.

330,000 - 375,000: Glacial.

375,00 - 425,000: Interglacial.

This chart shows the last 450,000 years.



If you go back to the beginning of the entire ice age around 2.5 years ago, you start to see the homo genus take over and then slowly but surely the intellect begins steadily increasing. The homo genus began in the years leading up to the ice age and then took off. I believe that the interglacial periods are generally the times when genetic diversity increases and that the glacial periods (or transitions between glacial / interglacial) are when the majority of selection events and extinctions occur.

So for humans and human ancestors I firmly believe that the bouncing back between warm and cold is what led them to step beyond the rest in intellect and ingenuity. It was heavy environmental pressure bouncing between extremes in temperature. This is also favorable to create diversity in a relatively short time. I see the correlation, although the details are still a bit fuzzy and there is certainly way more to the picture than JUST the temperatures, but it seems to play a heavy role, especially when considering the environmental pressure caused by the transitional periods which likely displaced many various hominids into differing environments, to which they adapted accordingly.

a reply to: Phage

The premise of the OP is that we can make ourselves evolve via will or intent.

Aside from deliberate genetic manipulation, not much reason to think so.

But this implies the passing in of knowledge (teaching) from one generation to the next (a willfull act we have conscious control over) has no effect on our evolution whatsoever. But that is easy to disprove.

Without teaching, humans would not know how to survive, and may never have evolved complex language.
You need teaching to know where to find water, how to make clothes how to build shelter, what foods to eat, what foods not to eat... Will has played a major role in human evolution.

originally posted by: nonjudgementalist
Will has played a major role in human evolution.

IMO It's not really will itself. It's more about increase in brain capacity and intellect that enabled us to understand many things on a deeper level. Remember, in order to teach something to others, somebody must first discover or figure it out the first time. Many creatures in the animal kingdom teach their young as well, but it's the increase in brain power that led humans to figure out so much of the world. Now we are reaping the benefits of this knowledge. It's not just about choosing, it's about having the knowledge and a means to gain that knowledge. Will is just a small part of intellect.

a reply to: Barcs

Very nice explanation. Well thought out.

a reply to: Barcs

IMO It's not really will itself. It's more about increase in brain capacity and intellect that enabled us to understand many things on a deeper level. Remember, in order to teach something to others, somebody must first discover or figure it out the first time. 

Ok. So we all know that without teaching each generation would have to start from scratch and we would be unlikely to survive and progress as a species.

But is it a willfull behaviour that builds the capacity of the individual to survive passed down through information or is it an instinctual behaviour that fulfills the capacity of an individual to survive inherited through genetics?

Perhaps its both.

It's not just about choosing, it's about having the knowledge and a means to gain that knowledge. Will is just a small part of intellect.

Hmm... But having a means to gain that knowledge requires a will... In fact you could argue that that will is the prjmary means required to gain knowledge... So perhaps will is not such a small part of intellect after all, to me it seems fundamemtal..

it's the increase in brain power that led humans to figure out so much of the world

But what led to the increase in brainpower? Was it not will?

.

How many agree with that?

originally posted by: nonjudgementalist
Ok. So we all know that without teaching each generation would have to start from scratch and we would be unlikely to survive and progress as a species.

I'm sure we would survive, but yes without teaching it would be much more difficult.

But is it a willfull behaviour that builds the capacity of the individual to survive passed down through information or is it an instinctual behaviour that fulfills the capacity of an individual to survive inherited through genetics? Perhaps its both.

Obviously will does affect natural selection, but it can be argued this way for many animals as well. They make decisions on a daily basis that can lead to them surviving or dying. It's more about making the RIGHT decision, and higher intelligence leads to better odds in that. Will cannot force genetic mutations, nor can it change an entire population. Will is limited to one individual deciding to do something. When we are talking about inherited changes going out to entire populations, will takes a back door to the genetic mutations. Human intelligence is far more complicated than us wanting to do something or making a decision.

Answer me this. If a human decides to do something stupid (ie risky behavior like not looking before crossing the road, playing chicken, high speed auto racing on local roads, etc), is it a result of intelligence or a result of just will? Yeah, they made the decision, but what factored into that decision? I look at intelligence as a whole rather one small aspect of it. Smarter people will avoid those situations and live to pass down their genes to others, while the people that do not are less likely to. Simple but true. Will is a byproduct of intelligence, not the other way around.

Hmm... But having a means to gain that knowledge requires a will... In fact you could argue that that will is the prjmary means required to gain knowledge... So perhaps will is not such a small part of intellect after all, to me it seems fundamemtal..

The thing is will itself isn't the be all end all. The higher the intelligence, the more likely that the individuals CHOOSE the right decision. Will isn't some external process. It is simply one property of intellect and every facet of it is controlled by the person's intelligence. Animals utilize will as well. Smart people understand that teaching the next generation is an effective method for retaining knowledge. We can't even prove that "will" exists. Decision making seems to be a result of intelligence, not a result of the ability to make decisions. Are there any creatures that do not have this "ability"?

But what led to the increase in brainpower? Was it not will?

No it was not will, it was environmental pressure on populations to survive. Will doesn't modify genes and affect what abilities are passed down. It seems like you are making will out to be this external process, but it is part of intellect.

I hope I explained this clearly, I have a headache coming on, so I rushed a little bit through it.

a reply to: Barcs

Haha lets leave it there for a week then. I've got things to do.