If someone wanted to enter house, take belongings Should you be forced to let in?

a reply to: yuppa

Iraq was th eonly one we established.

You don't know your history that well do you?

The US has been in the business of controlling rulers in the Middle East since at least post WWII. Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Iran, Jordan, etc.

These are all nations that we've propped up extremist governments, only to turn on them afterwards when it was convenient.

The past dont apply to now though and the Europeans are in no shape to take in a bunch of ungrateful people who when given the chance will stab you in the eback.

Ahh....Okay, if you say so...

WHy dont they do like the japanese did and rebuild their country themselves?

They didn't do it themselves, they've been supported by the USA and multiple other countries including the world banking cartels like the IMF. Also Japan was better off post WWII than many ME nations were after conflict post WWII.

You are so wrong it's not even funny, mostly because you know nothing of the history that's transpired and you've obviously just took whatever the media has spouted at you and believed it.

If that wasn't true, then you would not be arguing because you'd know that you'd be wrong. But carry on anyways I suppose, it's not like facts or logic are going change your mind.

~Tenth

a reply to: grainofsand well when I'm debating knee jerk reactionaries I tend to go for the head first then the heart. Maybe I should do it the other way around

Here's a thought, how about we let the migrants know that if they claim asylum in the safe EU nation they have made it to then they can be processed there and request a final destination related to the second language they speak?

The UK and others help with the costs of caring for them during their application, then when we realise that most of them speak English as a second language then the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, and the UK all take a share under a tariff system?

Then we can change the international conventions on refugees at the UN as well, so asylum seekers can state their preferred destination when they reach 3rd party safe nations?

Yep massive world change is preferable to the UK acting unilaterally and obviously then taking most of the migrants because most of them speak English.
I'm interested in all rational arguments, but hey keep the appeals to emotion out of it yeah, that ain't how any government administration works, it is about numbers, agreements, resources and money, not emotion.

a reply to: grainofsand

I disagree. If you do anything toward a group of put upon individuals, whether positive or negative, and you discount emotions from your thinking, you WILL fail to create a functional solution. That is inevitable.

That said, your multi state solution seems to have legs, and I would love to see it taken up by someone with the clout to get it put through.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: grainofsand well when I'm debating knee jerk reactionaries I tend to go for the head first then the heart. Maybe I should do it the other way around

Oh my oh my, just more childlike one liners refusing to offer any reasoned or rational debate.
Go on then, directly quote a post of mine which implies I am a knee jerk reactionary? Go on, all of the post mind you, not half a sentence.

You show your lack of debating skill, or ability to discuss without an argument reeking with emotion but no substance.
I repeat my questions from the previous post, why ignore them with silly one liners?

What do you want then? The UK to sign up to Schengen, or the rest of the world agreeing that asylum applications can be taken from people who have made it to a 3rd party safe nation but are wishing to choose the particular safe country they wish to claim it in?
Come on, what exactly do you want to happen? It has to be enshrined in agreements and legislation ultimately, so what's your plan?

...so what is your plan? You know, reasoned argument and all that.

a reply to: grainofsand

Sorry, US has taken a large percentage of Mexico's population increasing daily . Plus refugees from other countries. We have integration and resource issues to work out on current numbers.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: grainofsand

I disagree. If you do anything toward a group of put upon individuals, whether positive or negative, and you discount emotions from your thinking, you WILL fail to create a functional solution. That is inevitable.

That said, your multi state solution seems to have legs, and I would love to see it taken up by someone with the clout to get it put through.

I worked many years in central government and signed many decisions on behalf of secretaries of state. Emotions are not taking into any of it, just facts, budgets, potential outcomes.
I have emotions myself of course, and even when I had to make 'impartial' decisions.
This debate can only look at it the way government does, appeals to emotion will get nowhere in government administration. It is a waste of energy.

Regardless of religion these people have they need a place they can live. Every soul deserves one chance to evolve and many of them are going to be gentle in nature. But if they fail their life as free man/woman are over. Lifetime prison for all offenses no matter how small. The west citizens deserves for the criminal and violent people to be removed from society.

Also Muslim need to get over how easy it is to provoke them to anger. If they cannot respond peacefully even when a Quran is burned then they are lacking control and should be put in a mental institution for the brainwashed/insane. I am sometimes hard on Christians but when it comes to not be provoked into violence most follow Yeshua:s teaching perfectly.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

If you are not arguing that the UK should unilaterally accept asylum claims from people in 3rd party safe nations, just because they happen to speak English, then we have no issue.

a reply to: grainofsandthe amount of migrants trying to cross the border has dropped to under 200 a day, so it would seem things are starting to improve. People just need to tone down the Inhumane rhetoric and concentrate on facts rather than tabloid scare stories. That would be a good start.

Do you remember the panic last year about Romanians and Bulgarians swamping the country and how awful it would be last year? Well I do, the same time I end up spending 4 months in hospital being looked afterby Romanian nurse who cared for me everyday, from wiping my arse to giving me bed baths.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

The Romani are a wonderful people. As are most people from places that have been war torn.

I know this is OT, but I used to know a guy named Yussif. He lived in Lebanon during the way with Israel. Whenever anybody complained out loud at his job about anything really stupid, he would walk to window, sigh loudly and say.

"Ah..No Bombs...today is a good day."

And then sit down.

~Tenth

a reply to: woodwardjnr

So you have no plan to offer or counter my thoughts then?

Yep, I'll agree it has settled down at Calais, but only because the border force has been strengthened. They are all still there.
I don't follow tabloids though I just make observations based on logic, and I imagine if I was a migrant at Calais right now I'd be looking for the next weak link in the border. One of the minor ferry ports would be first on my list.

Oh, and please refrain from clouding the issue with constant references to legal immigration from EU citizens. It is a completely separate issue to the potential exodus of millions of folk in two broken nations who mostly all speak English as a second language.

*Edit*
And your anecdotal tales of nice Romanian nurses? So what? I know a hardworking Romanian bricklayer and I know a few drunken robbing bastard Romanians living off benefits.
Anecdotal = irrelevant.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: yuppa

OH MY GOD!

There are no native people, it is a total fabrication that any such thing ever lived on these isles, because all the people here, have origins in other lands, from other genetic stock, BECAUSE PEOPLE CAME HERE FROM ELSEWHERE AND SETTLED MILLENNIA AGO!

You cannot hope to discuss these things properly if you are going to use terminology so outmoded and anthropologically irrelevant as "native" to describe the current population of these isles! This nation has been conquered, and inhabited by so many tribes of man over the millennia, that to call any of us native is like trying to suggest that George Bush is a Native American. What utter and total rot! What next? What shallow justification can you possibly come up with next for greed and casual hate by exclusion of your fellow man I wonder?

By "native" i mean who currently are the majority then is that better? AN d i see some here dont have a sense of humor and missed the "LOL" indicating i was joking btw. Sticking to the OP letting people in to take what is yours is not right period. screw the refugees send them elsewhere. But hey if the EU want to be suckers be my guest.
W e need to take care of our own first instead of anyone elses.

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: crostkev

The very high-minded and objective view is that we here on this planet are all one and must, therefore, take care of our own.

That is arguable to many degrees, but that high-minded and objective view is the correct view. It comes not from an earthling but from a dispassionate onlooker. The bottom line is that we, like it or not especially when we think ourselves superior to our poorer fellows, are still responsible for/to them. The solution is simple and is being implemented. It is the total, centralized control of people.

...Not what you wanted to hear and I didn't want to write it, but that is the situation.

I understand your view, and I used to believe in it. I think all people are the same, a human is a human, race, creed color, religion, etc. But that just ties into the NWO. I have no problem with a One World Government, if and only if it was truly democratic and unable to be corrupted. This will never be the case with our race, so that card is out. As long as there is money there will be corrupt.

Humans are different than all other animals, but we are not so different. We protect our kin, our possessions, our homes, our livlyhood, and anything immidiatly important to us. Protecting ourself from a bomardment of illegal immigrants is no different. It is in our species to know that it is not helping ourself. It may not help more than it hurts in the end. So who is wrong to proclaim so? More deforestation in the U.S., less water, less jobs, less food, less space, less everything when allowing masses of people come i n at any given point. And then many can get welfare, tax breaks, which just digs into our pockets one by one, thousands a day, because that's how our system works. So it's helping a few and hurting a lot.

If the U.S. is seperate from Mexico and all other countries, then so are those people. They are seperate citizens. They belong to another nation. I can't just go to any country and become a citizen, not one other democratic nation allows this crap. I can't go to the U.K. or Sweden, or Canada and jus tbecome a citizen if I pop out a baby there. Like it's super hard to do that in the first place. So are you for going to war with all countries that don;t allow illegal immigrants just take home in whatever country they choose? Go wherever, no papers, just stake claim on any piece of land. No rules, the world is the Wild West? I wouldn't mind if the world actually was, but it will never be. You honestly have no idea what is coming do you?

Europe is done mate. Better start learning Arabic or leave.

They will tell you it's your fault.
Despite the fact that the immigrants are trying to escape from other Muslims, not western armies.

They will tell you that protesting against Islamic extremism and violence is an act of an Islamophobic Nazi.
While calling this free speech -


Don't listen to them. Do what you feel like is best for you, your family and your friends.

originally posted by: MaxMech
Europe is done mate. Better start learning Arabic or leave.

They will tell you it's your fault.
Despite the fact that the immigrants are trying to escape from other Muslims, not western armies.

They will tell you that protesting against Islamic extremism and violence is an act of an Islamophobic Nazi.
While calling this free speech -

Don't listen to them. Do what you feel like is best for you, your family and your friends.

Best thing to do is next protest they have is round them up and deport them. Hey if Lincoln could do it why not tony blair/the current leaders in the UK?