Study of Holocaust survivors finds trauma passed on to children's genes

I found this article to be pretty fascinating. I know some animals can somehow pass down information to their offspring...so this was kind of cool to see that there may be evidence for humans doing it too.

Link to The Guardian

Her team’s work is the clearest example in humans of the transmission of trauma to a child via what is called “epigenetic inheritance” - the idea that environmental influences such as smoking, diet and stress can affect the genes of your children and possibly even grandchildren.

So this is kind of cool...the dna itself doesn't change but chemicals attached can turn a gene on or off.

They found epigenetic tags on the very same part of this gene in both the Holocaust survivors and their offspring, the same correlation was not found in any of the control group and their children.

Oddly the first thing I thought of on this is a legal angle. Imagine having people sue someone for trauma...cause it not only affects them...but their children too. And with that I wonder how difficult it would be to remove the chemical attachment or make a sort of medication to remove it. It wouldn't necessarily be gene modification to change some things in your behavior, etc.

If you read down further it discusses how a similar experiment was done in mice with success.

How cool is that?

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

How about the Aborigines and native Americans? I don't see any trauma passed on genetically with them.

Anyone who has a loved one with early life caused PTSD who also has children can see this very much in action. The current thought is that it is based on observed behaviors of the adult by the offspring, but I question that. Even the kids of very well adjusted PTSD sufferers display a more manic reaction to stress and tend to be much more to one extreme or the other, either extremely empathetic or very distant.

Genetic memory... really hammers home the nature vs nurture, is man more than just a sum of his parts argument.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

I have a theory ... We are 70 to 80 % water if i am not mistaken . Water can hold memory via sound waves and effect the structure of it. So it would make sens on this level that any projection of a negitive event would indeed effect somone who was exposed to it at a young age.

This is why i try to project positive energy and vibration always.

Some of you might be thinking ...pfft yeah right!

Then I'll say "what are words spoken?" are they not sound waves that can effect your emotions ? Emotions that are housed in your walking bag of water and consciousness?

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

Hmmmm interesting. What if it's related to reincarnation?

The study is such a joke.

"holocaust" is not a specific type of exposure. "exposure to lead" or "exposure to mercury" are specific types of exposure. You can't have a scientific study based on completely non-scientific criteria. They mention people who were in hiding, people who were interned by the Nazis, and people who witnessed torture were considered "holocaust victims" for the purposes of this study.

So, did they find non-Jewish people around the world of varying ethnicity who have been victims/witnessed torture, been in a death camp, or were in hiding for their lives? Or are Nazi death camps the only type of death camp capable of causing genetic damage? I knew the Nazis were advanced, but that would be pretty surprising.

What about survivors of Japanese death camps? Are these markers present in all of the Chinese population who are children or survivors of Japanese atrocities? Or again, are Nazi atrocities the only type capable of causing genetic damage? Pretty strange science there.

Is systematic rape considered torture? Are these markers present in the whole population of German women and children who were raped by the Russians?

It's....... THE NAZIS! So evil they damage your children's DNA!

I have no doubt that things can get passed on genetically but the way this is being presented is absurd.

Cue the anti-Semitic rhetoric.


It is quite interesting from a genetic point of view. Something that I am quite interested in academically.

Psychologically speaking - there is a thing called Inter-generational trauma. Where psychological stressors, illness and disorders are passed down from generation to generation - which also impact on financial security, education, employment quality and opportunities, lifestyle behaviours etc.

Also, stress and trauma during pregnancy can have an impact on the growing child, with various hormones at play. So I wouldn't be surprised in the least if excess or insufficient hormones trigger genes to switch on/of.

And to the poster a few posts up: In regards to Indigenous folk - I am sure there are some peer reviewed studies out there. If not - I guess it's an idea for researchers to look into.

a reply to: auroraaus

Yes doesn't this all fall under epi genetics. And that children of certain polish holocaust survivors actually retained food longer because of the extreme hunger their parents had endured? Fascinating subject, and a real kick in the teeth to the modern determinism that is ripe in the psychological field and treatment.

I laughed when you said cue the anti Semitic rhetoric because you're right, it's bull# people make this political or bias in anyway! I've said and I'll say it again the only thing that stands in the way of science is politics and the only way to achieve a better world is science.

Of course certain things like love and bonds must be respected in their own qualities, however science goal is to make the world a better place by understanding it. First we should have a strong scientific understanding then a political viewpoint, but certainly not the reverse.

a reply to: TechniXcality

Too right!

There was something else I forgot to mention!

Results won't necessarily reflect to other cultural groups or disaster/genocide groups. One needs to bear in mind the cultural differences (also dependent on locality of the group, say Polish Jews vs French Jews, Jews in Auschwitz vs Treblinka etc) which may influence the resilience of the subjects. This applies to the other groups mentioned here such as the Chinese or POWs in camps or Indigenous peoples etc. You look at compounding factors which could add to the stress, what the local living was like, what health was like, what attitudes and values were etc.

a reply to: auroraaus

What a load of poo!
So you're saying only jewish victims have the required social circumstance for this dna transmission/mutation?
Other ethnic groups who have also been subjected to genocide can't have it because their circumstance was socially different?
I would really like to move on from the jewish 'holocaust' as would many people of the world, IMHO.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

While I am not a Gene expert I believe that we pass more our information to our offspring by our actions and recollections in real time that genetically.

While the article is interesting, it has to many gaps.

So we should find the same results in the Japanese since they witnessed horrors 10 fold to what the German POW's witnessed? and the repercussions lasting so much longer and all. None of the 'HOLOCAUST' victims knew they were going to die of anything but starvation, which wasn't exactly a groundbreaking way to die back then.

Does this mean we are going to be shaken down for more reparations to pay the offspring of supposed 'HOLOCAUST' survivors for generations to come?

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

I would like to see a study on the Armenian holocaust, I wonder if the results would pass scrutiny while under peer review. This study is a joke...making a mockery of an already horrible situation.

BTW my grandfather was traumatized during the second world war, what he went through is just as bad as anything you can think of. Let's check my DNA, or do I not qualify for the study???

a reply to: Kapusta

Water doesn't have a memory so no, your hypothesis is way off base.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
More fodder for the Holocaust Industry. More bilking for multiple generations.

Dude, really? Really??

Yes it is specific exposure to people with missing family members. I come from a country where that is very frequent.
Your angle does not help the victims of Soviet rape or Nanjing etc. The Holocaust was simply - and rightly - declared to be a historical evil unsurpassed at the time - so as to have a measuring stick.
Give up the measuring stick and you give up any hope to prevent such horrors.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

Wow! I had no idea ATS had so many microbiologists! So many experts and they've clearly 'peer reviewed' the study as garbage.

I find the implications of the study's findings fascinating albeit the total sample size was small (n=71); larger studies might be necessary.

What we might be seeing here is that traumatic events can be transmitted through genes thus having an effect on future generations who weren't involved. Maybe in the future comparative studies could include families who lived through the Nagasaki bombing? Or perhaps survivors of the Hutu/Tutsi massacres in Rwanda? Either population survived incredibly traumatic events.

Other studies have proposed a more tentative connection between one generation’s experience and the next. For example, girls born to Dutch women who were pregnant during a severe famine at the end of the second world war had an above-average risk of developing schizophrenia.

Guardian

The implications of that study are that potentially tens of thousands of females in parts of Africa live with elements of schizophrenia. What impact might that have on societal stability? Obviously the original study could replicated in Ethiopia to see if there's a correlation.

With static populations, maybe these long-term effects damage the future societies? I wonder if this might be a factor in explaining why some populations seem to be perpetually in conflict? It'd also be interesting to see if these markers are present in third and fourth generations. How long do the negative effects linger through the generations? One? Two?

So it turns out that Rupert Sheldrake was right after all.

It has already been shown that health effects of bad eating habits are passed on genetically, so this supports it.

www.livescience.com...

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
More fodder for the Holocaust Industry. More bilking for multiple generations.

originally posted by: James1982
The study is such a joke.

"holocaust" is not a specific type of exposure. "exposure to lead" or "exposure to mercury" are specific types of exposure. You can't have a scientific study based on completely non-scientific criteria. They mention people who were in hiding, people who were interned by the Nazis, and people who witnessed torture were considered "holocaust victims" for the purposes of this study.

So, did they find non-Jewish people around the world of varying ethnicity who have been victims/witnessed torture, been in a death camp, or were in hiding for their lives? Or are Nazi death camps the only type of death camp capable of causing genetic damage? I knew the Nazis were advanced, but that would be pretty surprising.

You both missed the point. This article is not about the Holocaust, it's about the capacity of the DNA to evolve and mutate due to physical and emotional experience.

I don't know what's more pathetic, people trying to profit politically or economically from the so called 'Holocaust industry', or closet Nazis trying to profit from denouncing it.