"You can't teach an old dog new tricks" cliché deconstructed

This was a conversation from another thread that started to go slightly off topic, so I decided to turn my reply into a new thread:

originally posted by: blacktie
a reply to: Trachel

and your friend goes along with this?
you do know its very unlikely to teach an old dog a new trick, make someone change their ways and be what you think is best for them rather than them discovering whats best on their own
what's the hurry?

There are a few possible answers to this.
Firstly, we need to confront the cynical cliché. The use of the word old is an invalid one. A more appropriate definition of what this cliche is trying to suggest is "vital". And what the cliche translates to in less convoluted terms would be something like "You can't learn new things without vitality". Common sense. But the idea that old people, as the cliche suggests, being unable to learn new things even in their very old age is not commonly accepted as true, and is proven over and over to be a myth. But old myths did hard ( an old cliché )

Secondly, what you said after the cliche;

"make someone change their ways and be what you think is best for them rather than them discovering whats best on their own
what's the hurry?"

Well, fjrst of all, you might know by intuition that they will never change their ways unless you intervene (this is usually how it happens. It's not calculated, its instantaneous...) And be aware of something. There is a very big difference between manipulating in a calculated way over a long period of time, and trying to engage with that person to help them change by their own volition based on what you say. In away that will hopefully inspire them through your interaction to change instantaneously. With covert manipulation (hypnosis) the aim is to engage that person subconsciousness and cause it to change against the subjects will. This is in the opposite side of the spectrum. It's actively engaging with that person's higher mind and getting that to connect with what you're saying in a way that informs the individual of your perspective coherently and allows them the oppertunity to ask questions etc and eventually make their own mind up based on what you have said. You may not be able to help someone in one conversation but over many conversations for that person it might start to click, and have a positive outcome that changes their life for the better.

I don't know statistics or anything but perhaps a lot of people don't need to become wiser beings... I very much doubt that, but at is implicitly what you cynics are saying..
Some peoples lives are on trajectories that they can not predict, and unless they have someone more knowledgeable than themselves to step in and guide them away from the darkness, they may end up in terrible circumstances. Hollywood loves these stories, and will make heroes out of them, when the reality is usually a lot different. Don't be fooled by Hollywood screenplays. It's not real its just theater. Your life is real.

Many people might not be on dark roads through any fault of their own, it may simply be that they are negatively influenced by someone or something happening or that has happened that they learned about and drew the a negative kind of inspiration from (can be fiction and non fiction). Everyone knows especially parents this happens all the time. But most of the time its very subtle and can be unnoticable and too hard to trace to k ow where its coming from. It may not even be external influence, sometimes it can be internal and very hard to combat, because having wisdom you feel that you've gathered yourself can make you feel empowered. The problem is no one is able to challenge what youve concluded internally about life, unless you open up to it.

So in conclusion, having a helper or an 'angel' or a friend, or a guide, whatever you want to call it, openly share wisdom and understanding in a nonjudgmental way, can really benefit people in ways they never thought possible, and left to their own devices would never manage on their own. I hope this improves your understanding of what Trachel has been attempting with his very lucky friend ...

Peace


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Hard to break a person free of duality group conditioning when they are stuck in it.

People who are not inside the group condition can see both the positive side and the negative side and not buy illogical arguments.

An example:

If I point out for a Christian that Yeshua taught one thing and Paul taught another and that there teachings are not compatible then I will be hated for pointing out this and not buying the illogical arguments they are pushing to sell the idea that they are the same.

Luke wrote both the Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts. In Acts 9 Luke records the events surrounding Paul's conversion. We see that Jesus Himself called Paul and sent him to be an apostle. If Paul and Jesus are not in agreement, then why would Jesus call Paul to be His apostle? Jesus is God in flesh and would therefore know all things. Jesus would certainly have known what Paul would teach which, it seems, is one of the reasons Jesus called him.

Maybe because Paul was not called by Yeshua but is an opportunistic soul who saw Yeshuas teachings as a way to get power and control over other people by association. They are using the circular idea that since the divine realm exists the book containing human ideas of the divine realm must be true. The book is the truth since it say it is the truth.

Not the first person or last who claim to be associated with the divine while doing exactly the opposite of the universal golden rule.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

There are better examples you could pick.

originally posted by: nonjudgementalist
a reply to: LittleByLittle

There are better examples you could pick.

Sure I could have chosen another group conditioning that all today look down upon like Nazism. Or a couple of other dualistic group thinking that we are programmed to believe are making sense if we do not question them and look at the logic behind the scenes.

If you have a specific example you want to discus share it.