Tsunami: We only care because it wasn't all just poor people that died...rich people died too!

You have clearly stated that it's getting attention because RICH People DIED, that is understood.

I wonder if you are seeing this in your media from China?

And with that I ask: Are we the people controlling the media? Really it's the elite who do and death gets coverage. I wish it were different.

Plus, overall I believe the % of people that you consider rich is very small porportionally, to the total devastation.

And I'm asking politely, how now does this change your perspective?




[edit on 30-12-2004 by Tuatara]

QUOTE:
'(1) Don't be so narrowminded to assume I am an idiot. Be higher than that and see my point.
(2) No one is donating money to help the dead rich people and I never said that.
(3)I said most people wouldn't be aware of the scope and nature of the tradgedy if they weren't awoken to it by the media that wouldn't have represneted it without the loss of so many wich westerners. '

Firstly, I would like to apologize to OOPS for taking your quote and splicing it in this manner, but I thought it would demonstrate my reply a bit better.
(1) You're probably not an idiot, but isn't it slightly narrowminded to assume that people aren't seeing your point because they aren't 'high' enough? I don't think you're an idiot (which I guess clears me of narrowmindedness, as per your sentence) but I don't really see your point, or rather, I don't agree with you

(2) Fine, you never said that and we were all wrong to assume that you did. Unfortunately, your posts title says that 'we only care because...rich people died too!' - hence, it seems logical that we're only donating aid because rich people died. Rub these two together, and you should be able to forgive those of us who said (quite incorrectly, of course) that you were saying that the rich were being donated to).

(3)Right, so the media is only interested because so many westerners (all rich, of course) died. So I guess the fact that it was the largest earthquake in 40 years, that it affected the earth's spin, that it caused huge tidal waves all failed to catch the media's attention? The media only cares about rich people dying? Amazing then that here in Sri Lanka, the media is amongst the leading aid donors and organizers in the land, and that foreign aid is only coming in because the western media reported the disaster.


And this is not in reference to any specific quote or anything, but more towards the gist of what you're saying. Basic question: how can you presume to know what's happening inside people's heads? Now, you said some things about people dying everyday so what's the big deal. I don't particularly agree, but I see where you're coming from and don't think you're evil because of it...but how can you possibly presume to know why other people care about this disaster? I live in Sri Lanka, easily in the top 1% of incomes (just by owning a computer), and being American, I guess I fall into the 'rich westerners' category. But that's not why I care. I care because everyone I know has lost someone, and that that's just hte tip of the iceberg as far as casualties in this country are concerned. So just want to clarify that I cared about this tragedy long before I thought about all my "rich western" teachers who got swept away and everything else. They're all people as far as I'm concerned.

Now, in your second post you say "The point banshee is not that we don't care about poor people, but that we are awoken to the tradgedy and thus care about it because rich people died " - and I guess this is what you meant when you later said that people were missing your point. Fine, don't agree with it, but I can understand it, and it does sound more sensible than this, from your FIRST post:

"If it was only poor people, everyone would think WOW a big Tsunami? Any photos? But because rich people died we are like OH a big Tsunami, is everyone ok? "

Now, if it was only poor people, the media wouldn't care (as you've alluded) so why would anyone have ANY thoughts on it in the first place? And secondly, why do you say that people would only be concerned if rich people died? Why do you think that if only poor people died, they would say 'Any Photos?' - Can you really blame the vast majority of repliers to this post who have slandered you with abuse? Sure, you're not Chinese, Stupid, Evil, or anything else that people ahve called you so far. But really, can you blame people for thinking that maybe you're being presumptuous?

Honestly, judging by the evolution of your posts, I might be tempted to think that you changed your mind about the wisdom of your first one, but are trying to change your argument from "WE ONLY CARE BECAUSE THE RICH DIED" (essentially the title of this post) to "WE ONLY KNOW BECAUSE THE RICH DIED". That is the honest truth as I believe it. But I won't accuse you of that. You see, I can't read minds.

Thank you for your respectfulness, I wish I didn't have to thank you and that it was commonpractice around here. I will address the points you cover.

I believe I am only seeing this in the media in China because of the Rich people who have died. There are many disasters within Chinese borders that merit the attention of the national media while some do not for various reasons. International matters are reported with care, which goes to say with upmost scrutiny by the propaganda buereau. The have approved this message for all audiences just as the world over has. I am not blocked from inernational media. I have access to all websites and any television stations broadcasted thw world over...check out WWI.tv.com to see over 1000 world TV stations broadcasted over the internet.

The elite control the media, but people play a part. Indigo Child had a good statment about Diana. many people grieved who knew nothing about her, because of the media. Kurt Kobain died and I lived 40 mintues away from him, I didn't care but my sister lit candles, why? Someone told her too, who? The media. Or the elite - you choose.

The people proportionally I think are about 5 to 8 percent based on what I have seen on internation accounts and reports.... so finally how does this change my perspective?

My perspective has always been the same one from the first and orginal post. The overwhelming majority of the vicitims have been the poor of this tragedy, but the response to this tragedy is increased because a fraction of the victims included the rich of the northern hemisphere. Without these vicitms the overwhelming majority would not get the attention or recoginition of the loss they have suffered they they deserve.

I am not discrediting the kind and dear people of the world who would grive their loss and donate their hard earned money because of tragedy, I am merely saying there are more people alert to this tragedy because of the face rich people have died and this is a problem with the world and our society, and we must face up to it, not argue it.... Bam is only one example, look into the truth and many will surface, I don't need to list them. And being in China had help me reveal this truth to myself, but I owe it to the people around me who see life much more clearly that I can understand this.

Originally posted by Tuatara
You have clearly stated that it's getting attention because RICH People DIED, that is understood.

I wonder if you are seeing this in your media from China?

And with that I ask: Are we the people controlling the media? Really it's the elite who do and death gets coverage. I wish it were different.

Plus, overall I believe the % of people that you consider rich is very small porportionally, to the total devastation.

And I'm asking politely, how now does this change your perspective?




[edit on 30-12-2004 by Tuatara]

Originally posted by JAK
No 00PS sorry.

While some might well take offence to your idea and suggest that it says more about your own character and cynicism than anyone else, I would just strongly disagree.

Although I cannot speak for anyone else, for me you are totally off the mark here. Be prepared, some might easily find this quite insulting indeed.

Jack

Although i dont have anything really constructive to add to this conversation i will say i support the quoted gents post above...

Originally posted by 00PS
Most important, we are not grieving for the rich people, we are grieving for the dead poor people. Why are we greieving, becasue we know about their plight and care about them, how can we do this, we are inspired and educated to, half by social morals and values and the rest through programming and conditioning.

you speaking for yourself here? I am saddened by the loss of lives. I don't discriminate between rich and poor, black or white. People died and it is a tragedy.

I spent 3 and a half weeks in Indonesia on my honeymoon. A tour guide in Bali invited us to see his village and spend an evening there where we were given a wonderful dinner with most of the village. The people in that country were some of the nicest I have ever met. I have a few clients from Sri Lanka (no deaths in their family). They too are some of the finest people I have ever met. Please don't tell me how I am feeling or whoI am grieving for when you haven't a clue.

I have to kinda agree, with this thread. I have seen it happen in a years time. The Iran Quake that killed between 20 and 30 thousand people a year before, it got no where near this kind of coverage, or this kind of crying over who is paying for what.

Leads me to believe that its about (money) or the rich.

Originally posted by Archangel76
Honestly, judging by the evolution of your posts, I might be tempted to think that you changed your mind about the wisdom of your first one, but are trying to change your argument from "WE ONLY CARE BECAUSE THE RICH DIED" (essentially the title of this post) to "WE ONLY KNOW BECAUSE THE RICH DIED". That is the honest truth as I believe it. But I won't accuse you of that. You see, I can't read minds.

Evolution of thought comes with wisdom and something you bring to the post, a wiff of fresh air, I don't know if you are in Sri Lanka or not but if you have lost someone my heart does go out to you.

My first post was a bit flagrant but that's how my emotion was. And with the backlash of emotion from other members I have to come back more rational. And the point has more or less coalesced into the point that without the number of dead westerners we would not have the recognition of this tragedy for the full scale of what it is...Science buffs about the world jumping or losing 3 nanoseconds isn't enough to interest most Americans, but loss of American life is? Isn't that funny?

Generalizing is always a trecherous thing that can stab you in the back...I have been accused of many things, but I guess communication skill can be the only thing attacked here, or at least should be, and my lack of it should not be any excuse for others to exerty their lack of communication skill in the form of personal attacks but who gives a rat's butt, it's only a bbs. But it's a community too so they should follow the T&C or get a warn like I did for saying 'go beat off somewhere else' or for whatever reason they decided to warn me, hopefully it wasn't for going against the grain.

Thanks for your comments, I think they're the best in the thread with insight and comment...

so the root of the problem is the chinese media coverage and iranian gov't handling of the media and aid access, am I right ? so why did you come to theis board using the word "we"......I'm not a member of the chinese media or iranian gov't......

Originally posted by 00PS

I believe I am only seeing this in the media in China because of the Rich people who have died. There are many disasters within Chinese borders that merit the attention of the national media while some do not for various reasons. International matters are reported with care, which goes to say with upmost scrutiny by the propaganda buereau. The have approved this message for all audiences just as the world over has. I am not blocked from inernational media. I have access to all websites and any television stations broadcasted thw world over...check out WWI.tv.com to see over 1000 world TV stations broadcasted over the internet.

Well i wouldn't listen too closely to what the Chinese media tells you about us decedent, rich (thats a laugh) westerners. I'm not rich, heh i wish i wasotherwise i wouldnt have to work for a living in a shopping mall. I may be rich compared to Chinese standards but here in the UK im on the bottom of the food chain mate.

And believe it or not its the media who brings all these disasters to our attention, and its ordinary people who dig into their pockets to provide charity money for such disasters because our leaders are too busy blowing Iraq to hell to care.

Its the ordinary people who cares, and full of faults or not its the news papers TV and radio media that tells us what has happened. Without them: no story, no caring people, no charity money: who will care.

Yeah will two you two guys who don't have enough forsight to read all the worlds of a posting look again...

YOU DON'T REALLY THINK WHAT YOU WRITE DO YOU?????????

WHAT AMERICAN WOULD ONLY WATCH CHINESE TV??????????

god this is sad why am I writing to you...forget it, go get your

poop and giggles from somewhere else....

oh and p.s. I already said I am not blocked from international media...thanks for using your eyes...you have 2 of them, use them...

Originally posted by Tuatara
I wonder if you are seeing this in your media from China? [edit on 30-12-2004 by Tuatara]

Why was I talking about Chinese Media??????? Look at the question.....my god...and people said I was Ignorant....and they didn't get a warn...gosh what has this come too...

OK thats it, go forth and multiply you tart, i tried to answer sensibly now you got my back up.

Go forth and multiply you pig ignorant liberal minded fool. People like you make those trying to deal with the problems like the tsunami all the harder with your politically correct crap. I have taken offence at you, your attitude and frankly i think you stink.

Get lost oops.

No more insults will be tolerated. Another moderator has already issued a warning in this thread please reread it as it will be enforced.

I'm gonna have to say that though I don't agree that we only care because "rich people" died too. I do agree that there is so much coverage because on this natural disaster because Americans and Europeans were there. it hits home to people more, otherwise, it would've just been a disaster in a far away land, now its closer to people. Otherwise it would've just been a snippit on TV. "In other news...." types of things.

And as Drudgreport now states that Indonesia might be reporting 400,000 dead I would like to say this before this thread gets way out of hand. When I was discussing this earlier it was only a 20,000 reported dead finding...

Now that the numbers of people reported dead have come into the 100,000's today it's a different matter.

When Bam hit it was instant, Tens of thousands dead. This story is creeping and with more word it comes out more death. Now something more is appealing to people, but at first it was because rich people had died. It got more attention than Bam because of this reason and that was the original reason for the post.

I am sick of people demonizing me because they can't see the point. MODS look at all the insults I have got and look at me getting the warn THAT IS WRONG...

Oops, I asked for and I will gladly accept the warning and deduction of points for the statements made by me and others who have insulted you. Just know I am still in disagreement with your statement and your generalization of the entire situation.

I trust this tread will close soon, I have only reviewed a few commits, but from the start, I would not take your position, The Well to do(rich) or otherwise, It will not make the difference when it comes to putting them into to the ground... the same results, except, there are many that will have sand on their feet when doing so.. There is no greater loss... Rich or Poor!

Originally posted by 00PS
I am sick of people demonizing me because they can't see the point. MODS look at all the insults I have got and look at me getting the warn THAT IS WRONG...

Well if you want we can close this thread.

I will be happy to close this thread down. Just say the word. I have not sean a beating like this since old Mike tyson was in his prime

The mods let the dogs loose on ya.

I think it might be time to close this topic down, nothing more constructive in here.