Donald Trump’s immigration tab: $166 billion

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
I'm gonna say it again, not to spam, but because I want an answer from the oh so wise defenders of this mass deportation plan.

Being generous with the estimates...
Losing 11million immigrants, aside from the $160billion in costs to deport...

Would also hit the economy for at least $55billion per year...

Within a decade you'd lose half a trillion economically...


Tell me the pros again!
Aside from an excessively sybaritic POTUS.

This is true. The other side of that is Americans would take the jobs (which its been proven time and time again, they mostly wouldn't). And then the other side of that is that costs would go up on things like produce and construction and other services.

This is a many faceted issue that we can go round and round about all day long.

What has been 'proven' in the past doesnt necessarily equate that to what will happen in the future. Times have gotten harder for alot of American citizens so dont be so quick to judge on that one.

Also, I dont think anyone would have a problem if the people here working were abiding by the rules and instead of sending that money out of the country, instead keeping it here to help grow the place they are taking advantage of to help themselves. Clearly all they want is the cheap and free benefits and the opportunity to send that money home.

ETA: You also have to make a proper equation

Jose the illegal gets $10 per hour and keeps all of that.

In order for Joe to keep $10 an hour he needs to be paid $14. With equal compensation I think you would see Joe do the job, but not if he is going to be paid the same $10 but expected to live off of the $7 he keeps, of course its not worth it then, and that is the problem.

a reply to: phishfriar47

www.cnbc.com...

I don't know about the legitimacy of CNBC, but the study came from UCLA.
& I didn't complain about the Daily Fail source so entertain me.


It's actually $150billion consumer growth per year, so my $55 estimate was indeed generous as I said.
This doesn't include the 25% they send home, which is indeed another economic loss as you say.

You have a point when you mention giving the jobs to legal citizens, but it is not part of the same branch.
It's a separate issue, for now at least.

It's not wholey related to what I've been highlighting.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: phishfriar47

It's not whole u related to what I've been highlighting.

Im working through your link and numbers now, but can you clarify what you were meaning with what I left quoted?

a reply to: phishfriar47

Yeah, okay. Billions are billions. Point being others are doing it to. And it's still all just a drop in the bucket compared to what The Donald and his pals worldwide send offshore. Yet WE will get to pay this $166B, won't we?

Super Rich Hide $21 Trillion Offshore, Study Says

More on topic...and more recent...as per numbers of immigrant workers, anyway. And not counting this alleged 11 million, which in my mind have blended in well enough that we often can't tell anymore. There are illegals among all the immigrants, but we tend to focus on Mexico more because if its proximity, I reckon.

China was the country of origin for 147,000 recent U.S. immigrants in 2013, while Mexico sent just 125,000, according to a Census Bureau study by researcher Eric Jensen and others. India, with 129,000 immigrants, also topped Mexico, though the two countries’ results weren’t statistically different from each other. [Source]

a reply to: phishfriar47

Was during the height of the bad times that it was proven. Farmers offered jobs to Americans. They didn't want them. Americans don't want a lot of factory or blue collar jobs. Lots about that in the last year alone.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

Are you shifting the goalposts?

We're discussing the real problem now, and you want to talk about class warfare and tax policy.

Here's an odd idea that I'm sure most people will disagree with.

Let's open the border.

Whether it's an illegal immigrant or a potential terrorist, people will find a way in to this country. There is absolutely nothing we can do to stop people from coming in to this country short of building a barbed-wire fence around the entire country. But if we did that, it would just mean that we are pretty much prisoners in our own country.

Open the border, let people come and go freely and let's stop wasting our time.

originally posted by: introvert
Here's an odd idea that I'm sure most people will disagree with.

Let's open the border.

Whether it's an illegal immigrant or a potential terrorist, people will find a way in to this country. There is absolutely nothing we can do to stop people from coming in to this country short of building a barbed-wire fence around the entire country. But if we did that, it would just mean that we are pretty much prisoners in our own country.

Open the border, let people come and go freely and let's stop wasting our time.

I suppose.

You know laws in general are so passé. They don't really stop people who are going to do those things anyhow.

I agree. Let's legalize everything and throw open the prisons. It would save a ton of money! Think about it. No more cops. No more law enforcement of any kind ... Heck, we wouldn't even need anymore regulatory structures - those are all law based too. I mean, if businesses want to break those laws, they will. So we should just let them do it if they're going to anyhow.

That's the best idea anyone has had all day.

a reply to: ketsuko

Just discussing numbers with phishfriar47.

Butt sore?

a reply to: introvert

Great idea genius!
Why don't you post your address so everyone can stop off at your place for a hot shower and a cold cerveza.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: phishfriar47

www.cnbc.com...

I don't know about the legitimacy of CNBC, but the study came from UCLA.
& I didn't complain about the Daily Fail source so entertain me.

It's actually $150billion consumer growth per year, so my $55 estimate was indeed generous as I said.
This doesn't include the 25% they send home, which is indeed another loss economic loss as you say.

You have a point when you mention giving the jobs to legal citizens, but it is not part of the same branch.
It's a separate issue, for now at least.

It's not whole u related to what I've been highlighting.

According to your source, you are looking at the total of immigrants which apparently is around 40 million, illegal Mexicans only make up about 10-15 million, so divide that 150 billion by the proper ratio for the impact from our Southern neighbors. Your article says the illegals alone (and there is no way to verify that number from your article on if they meant the 40 million total immigrant workers or just the 20 million estimate of illegals), either way we will say their number is correct and use $150 billion, only half of that is directly from the illegal Mexicans if they represent half of the illegal population in America. So basically they account for $75 Billion a year in economic impact, but it doesnt say where or how and if thats a total and doesnt account for the 25 Billion per year being sent back to Mexico, but the numbers reconcile nicely if you assume they bring in 75 billion and spend 55 billion here and 25 billion back home which were our original numbers to begin with.

So my point is still valid after producing my own sources and understanding the numbers in your source.

How much do you think it will cost taxpayers NOT to implement? Do you realize the cost of giving ppl free education and whatever else the elites plan to give them as they enter the country? I must remind that socialism does not work, even though it sounds really nice.
Alexander Solzhenitysn wrote books about it.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

They offered the same wages as they did to illegals, use my equation to understand why that doesnt work. And I highly doubt that the farmers during the height of the recession offered 50% more in increased wages to American Workers to do those jobs, they wanted us to go down to illegal wages instead of helping their fellow countrymen and stemming the overall problem with illegal immigrants taking our jobs. .

Thats the problem with illegal immigration, you get cheap labor and deflate what the people here can work for. Why would I want to do Jose's job if I know he gets to keep and make more money than me? Its frustrating and a large problem with illegal immigration, and lands us exactly where we are today

a reply to: introvert

The borders were open before we came. They were more open when my parents came. All of this has a much, much deeper root cause. However, the way the world is today, unfortunately we need those borders and those immigration laws and for the law to be upheld. I'm all for just firming those up and enforcing them. The people here already? I'm torn about that. And the costs to us monetarily (the $166B in the OP and the tangential costs Charlie mentioned) and to families. These people contribute. Just make it easier for them to contribute more and stop tilting at windmills.

a reply to: phishfriar47

Immigrants have always been the cheap, free, or indentured labor in this country. It's kind of our history.

ETA: Well except for the massively skilled Chinese and Indian labor that our own companies invested massive amounts in to educate and then cried that they needed to import them because Americans were stupid and couldn't do the jobs. But we digress.

a reply to: ketsuko

I'm talking about an open border with less restrictions and make it easier for people to come in to the country, work, and go home.

How you equate that to no laws, no police and no regulations is beyond me. Quite the knee-jerk, emotional extreme is it not?

a reply to: FinalCountdown

I said it wouldn't be a popular idea. But I think it would work better.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus
Exactly!
It's not racist to demand fairness to all of us, the legal citizens.

This is a slap in the face to every single one of our families that migrated here legally, using the legal system provided for immigration.

Who are all these people that sneak in and then are given a free ride and citizenship?

I'm outraged! Our entire existence as citizens of the USA have been priced out. All of everything that we as a country have worked hard to maintain have been marginalized into worthlessness.

It's not evil and it's not racist to round up all illegals and transport them back and then say, "you're welcome to come back over and work towards citizenship, but please fill out the proper forms and get in line"

originally posted by: introvert
Here's an odd idea that I'm sure most people will disagree with.

Let's open the border.

Whether it's an illegal immigrant or a potential terrorist, people will find a way in to this country. There is absolutely nothing we can do to stop people from coming in to this country short of building a barbed-wire fence around the entire country. But if we did that, it would just mean that we are pretty much prisoners in our own country.

Open the border, let people come and go freely and let's stop wasting our time.

I dont think we would be as mad if they PAID their fare share. The liberals love to tell us that we must pay our fair share and yet no one is shaking down these illegals who get to send the same 33% of their income back to mexico instead of it staying here.

Open the borders, but if you receive a dollar in wages here or any benefits, you will be taxed, no matter what. Then maybe so many wont come here for the freebies, beacuse they wont exist.

The current thinking is that Mexican citizens think Mexico sucks and the opportunity is better here so they just up and come here and expect us to help them because they chose to leave everything behind.

So what if I thought the same way. I am miserable here in America and I want to go to Switzerland where the quality of life is better and the opportunities exist for me to succeed better than they do here. So I'm just going to leave everything behind with no plan and set off for Switzerland and then make them take care of me while I send all of my money that I am making illegally back to my family here instead of helping the country that helped me.

See how ridiculous that sounds when you apply the same logic to any other country. Its utterly astounding.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: ketsuko

Just discussing numbers with phishfriar47.

Butt sore?

No, but you're talking about something other immigrants and immigration policy when you start talking about offshoring money to avoid taxes.

Weren't you the one busy complaining about how many people were off topic earlier?

a reply to: ~Lucidity

They are pretty much open now. Why do we continue to kids ourselves and pretend that the imaginary line stops anyone from coming in if they really want to?

I think if we had a more open policy to reflect reality, more people would be willing to remain Mexican citizens, but cross the border to work.

My biggest fear is the consequences that will come out of this issue if we go down the road many suggest.