British children among the saddest in the world.

Not surprising. This is the result of decades of Marxist bed-wetters advising on educational policy. Britain has got more than its fair share of bleeding hearts; teachers dealing with school bullies smacks too much of violence and control, so the problem has been swept under the carpet.

Even our teachers are bullied, for God's sake...

a reply to: Revolution9

It's tough because surveys like these don't account for all the cultural and social differences. They point out declining happiness in schools here:

The report also highlights the difference in children’s experience of primary and secondary schools with children in year six, the top year of primary, much more likely to say they enjoy going to school (61%), compared with just 43% in year 8.

In Year 6 (10/11), kids are in the top year of their Primary school. This is top of the pecking order and they probably attended since age 5 so they're very much in the comfort zone. Year 8 is the second year of High School which can involve ten times more pupils and all from different schools and areas. There's also the pressure of options looming in Year 9 - course choices. It's an entirely different experience with lots more pressure. Factor in adolescence (moods, peer pressure, identity etc) and obviously we'll see marked differences in happiness.

The report uses it as an indicator of failing schools when it's just as likely to be a reflection of changes in the child's life. In fact, if you read p 41 (report pdf), every country's children are less happy at age 12 than they are at age 10. It's inaccurate to make it an English schools issue.

49.9% of kids at 10 and 12 report (p42) being 'left out by other children in school class (between one and three times in the last month).' That's 1 in 2 right? They're leaving each other out, aren't they? If we say half of kids are ignored, it sounds terrible. If we think about it, how many of those feeling left out are also leaving others out?

I'm not arguing that England is a better place than everywhere else or that the survey is all BS. Just pointing out that surveys are open to analysis and interpretation and this one is not conclusive.

a reply to: Revolution9

You are quite right, we must look abroad at better examples to help our children.

a reply to: Kandinsky

You are most welcome with that. You point out the limits, but please don't brush this under the carpet on that basis. It is very important this gets raised in our society now. It is intolerable to so many people and causing so much mental ill health with people in every class.

I find British society to be very damaging to individuals. Look at the child abuse issues we have here that go to the very top of society and class. Don't get me started on bullying and abuse in the work place.

I was lucky I never experienced bullying at primary school, but I had really good male teachers and head masters, really positive role models. There used to be a punishment that if you ever kicked someone, you would have to wear the "big wellies" basically adult Wellington boots all day. Definitely made you think twice about kicking someone. You need to have some good male teachers in schools to instilled a bit of discipline without resorting to violence. Not knocking female teachers , but I always had more respect for the male teachers who took no crap and would dish out appropriate punishments.

a reply to: Revolution9

You point out the limits, but please don't brush this under the carpet on that basis. It is very important this gets raised in our society now.

You're welcome. No brushing anything under the carpet. Neither should England be characterised as one of the worst places for kids to grow up.

I find British society to be very damaging to individuals. Look at the child abuse issues we have here that go to the very top of society and class. Don't get me started on bullying and abuse in the work place.

True, but can't that be said for all societies? I don't even know if life in general is getting harsher. It's hard to measure. We could say a Victorian childhood was worse or pre-1950s. It's all too often relative and subjective. For example, UK kids in this age are emotionally literate and maybe more able to express their emotions than in countries like S Korea or S Africa. Ethiopia is in the comparative study and whilst their children might say they are 'less unhappy' than UK children, we could look at another survey that suggests UK kids have a higher quality of life.

We have to be careful that we don't choose the statistics that support our opinions.

originally posted by: Revolution9

originally posted by: disregard
Im sure the peodo ruling elite take great pleasure in the unhappiness of our children. In the u.k you get less time for raping an adult than you do for raping a child.

Children in the u.k are mostly latch key kids. Both parents working if they are lucky enough to have 2 parents. Add on the pressure of social media, closing of youth clubs and the fear of going out caused by gang culture and groomers.
Sports are too expensive whether playing or spectating.
The c of e schools no longer teach a christian ethos and are more likely to sing bob marley songs than hymns.

Disregard.

I think you meant get more time for raping an adult than a child, correct me if I'm wrong.

Well all that you say is true. How can I disagree when we read in the news the token sentences people like Rolf Harris get. The child abuse thing is mind blowing. A lot of that behaviour was learned in public school (see, school again) where the boys did not live with their parents and get proper emotional nurturing and instead where at the disposal of the bigger boys, equally as emotionally starved. Is it any wonder they became such monsters later in life?

I get so frustrated with the human race, really I do. We can go on playing the blame game, but that is really the laziest and least imaginative response. If only we could make the effort to deal with this. It starts in the schools. That is where it must stop. It is not just in the poor schools either. It is in the posh public schools, too. Like the study said, not a question of material resources as such.

yes more time.Thanks.
I agree with everything you say. The rise in anorexia and self harming is indicative of a system that only cares for profit.

As for bullies, theres good and theres bad. The good bullies hammer the bad kids, the bad bullies have never come across good bullies. The problem as i see it stems from the fact that competion in schools has been abandoned. Sports day has become activity day, no winners and no losers. also group punishment for a whole class when just one has misbehaved. This with naughty children receiving treats for when they are good instead of individual punishment if they are bad. This cause resentment for the always good child as the good ones are ignored for the clever bad ones. I could go on and on about the deliberate abolition of natural common sense practices for practices that are harmful, pie in the sky and wishy washy.

a reply to: Shiloh7

Having read your comment, "I do wonder though whether multiculturalism is not also something we are sweeping under the carpet with having to cope with so many different cultures, beliefs, PC with the English culture coming up last to be considered. It must affect the self confidence of our kids and their perceived identity. They should know they are not Crusaders however pride in our culture seems to be at a low ebb. ", has raised a question in my mind.

There has been a documented phenomenon called "Third Culture" or "Third Culture Kids". TCK's are the product of "global" parents, i.e., parents who because of Foreign Service, private or public, end up raising their kids in a cultural setting other than their identified "home" culture/country. For a better understanding, see:
en.wikipedia.org...

From that article, concerning problems of TCKs see: Difficulties with adjusting to adult life: the mixture of influences from the various cultures that the individual has lived can create challenges in developing an identity as well as with a sense of belonging. Feelings of rootlessness and restlessness can make the transition to adulthood a challenging period for TCIs.

There are several other problems discussed in the article.

I've come to wonder. Is it possible that the unusually high rates of immigration experienced in both the UK and the US, creating a situation where, kids, even when raised in their "home" country, are beginning to experience the cultural disorientation and resulting angst and anxiety experienced by kids raised outside their home country? Is it possible therefore that in the UK and the US the home cultures are actually creating TCK's of their home born citizens?

a reply to: Kandinsky
You are 100% correct. You pointed out the flaws in the interpretations and the obvious key factors they chose not to account for. The statistics of unhappiness coincide with puberty, a HUGE driver of these emotions. You pointed out the top of the pecking order which is totally correct. It's hard to compare more deprived schools like ethopia, where running water may be a massive incentive to be "happy", where as English kids wouldn't even consider it a contributing factor to happiness.

I know the OP has a strong view of the bullying culture in england, and judging by the responses most probably experienced some form himself, but I believe the study to be very limited and not a means for highlighting the "truth". But I am impressed with his argument style and ability to listen to other interpretations respectfully .

Also bullying is completely natural, a social phenomenon that helps establish order, whether you agree or not. In the animal Kingdom it takes form of physical violence . Humans the mental side is far more damaging, although hugely beneficial if you possess the mental fortitude. Problem is youngster s don't possess this and have poor coping mechanisms. People kill themselves over SATS tests for christ sake.

a reply to: TonyS

I agree. This cultureless multiculturalism is creating anomie ( Émile Durkheim q.v.) for everyone, not just kids. It's a strange low-level depression.

We all need a culture to identify with. Multiculturalism robs us all of that.

a reply to: TrueBrit

The idoic rule that both parties get in trouble is in the US also.

My daughter was beat up in the cafeteria, in front of hundreds of children,
she curled up in a ball while the girl beat her,
because of the "no self defense" rule;
my daughter had bruised ribs from the beating.

The parents were furious that my daughter was not
suspended like their daughter was,
pulling out the both parties involved should be
suspended. Luckily the principal said there
were hundreds of witness that said my daughter
just curled up in a ball on the floor and never
hit back (what an awful way to have to live)

The parents tried to sue the school because our
daughter wasn't suspended.

The worst was a bunch of our friends told
us we should feel sorry for the girl
because she broke her hand so badly
she needed surgery on it
(while beating my daughter)
and we should not cooperate with
the police who filed charges against
the girl.

What a sick sick world we live in.

a reply to: rossacus

I don't understand this new
ethics of the natural world
that is appearing on ATS.

Just because animals must fight to
establish a pecking order does not
mean that human beings must
also revert to the basest instincts
because it is natural,
and accept brutality as natural
and ethical because it is natural.

Humans are in my view to rise
above the base animal instincts
and have a higher set of ethics.

The ethics of nature also include:
Many male animals rape the female of the species, does that make rape ethical and natural?
Many animals drive away and kill those not in their pride or group, does that make racism ethical and natural?

These three examples show why
the new ethics of the natural world
are quite dangerous.

I have seen many on ATS say that the
nasty religious ethics are all wrong
and that we should look to nature
for our ethics.
Well, look where it is leading.

Bullying is natural in the sense that
it is ethical in the world of nature
to bully to insure the survival of the fittest.
But I shudder as more and more people
on ATS look for their ethics in the
"natural world" which is quite brutal
and ugly, not beautiful at all when you
get to specifics.
Like the animals who kill then eat their mates,
that is natural and ethical if you are looking
to the natural world for ethics.

a reply to: Revolution9

As long as our leaders, our media and humanity in general live by elitism, so will our children.

Bullies have the desire to be better than someone else. If they are not smarter or wealthier they must bully in order to obtain the higher social status to become part of the elite in school. Childhood bullying is childhood elitism.

Some bullies may be motivated by coveting material wealth, believing that they become intrinsically better off by obtaining more stuff. Without the financial or intellectual ability to earn material status they will take what belongs to someone else. Childhood bullying is childhood class warfare.

We can point to many problems at home. But where do the problems of two parents having to work while the children are left to raise themselves come from?

Massive income disparity has forced most lower wage earners to require both parents to work just to pay the bills. This was almost unheard of only 50 years ago. And for middle class parents both parents working is the only way they feel they can afford the advantages of sports and college tuition for their children. Having no parents at home leaves children to parent themselves.

We must return to single parent incomes affording a family a living wage for even the lowest wage earners. We must eradicate massive income disparity. We must believe that humanity is more valuable than material wealth. We must stop promoting a system where elitism thrives.

As long as we live in an elitist society children will mirror society. The only way for some children to feel elite in school is to bully others.
We have placed so much value on material wealth, physical appearance, athletic abilities and intellectual achievement that some children that do not excell in any of these traits turn to bullying. For some bullying is the only way they can exert superiority over their classmates.

Bullying is a direct result of material, physical and intellectual coveting brought about by elitism and the class warfare that is spawned by such materialistic values.

In a world where birth rights, blood, physical and mental abilities trump good old fashioned hard work, those who are born deficient in the coveted qualities no longer see hard work as a way to overcome birthright deficiencies.

I don't care how hard a fast food worker works, if they don't have the mental aptitude for management they will forever live in poverty in our current system. Hard work means very little in the world today if you are not born with at least one the coveted qualities.

We have pushed some children into a corner because of our elitist society. And they are lashing out to prove that they are the elite. Childhood bullying and those who have been damaged by bullies is a reflection of society. Until society changes our children will continue to reflect the worst of society.

Elitism is a direct cause of suicide as some children believe they are failures. Elitism is a direct cause of bullying which also leads to childhood suicide. Children are literally killing themselves because they believe they lack the coveted abilities that elitism promotes.

When will we wake up and ensure that every child feels valuable and secure in their being regardless of genetic predisposition?

And for God's sake isn't it time we teach our children that we are not all the same. I was bullied for being a feminine heterosexual male. When will we stop pushing religious dogma and start teaching our children that some people are born gay, some boys are feminine and some girls are masculine and their is nothing wrong with those of us who are different.

some of the sorrow comes from there being no future when the undocumented/unauthorized/illegal Immigrants in UK have taken all the jobs away from the Brits.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

The Brits surely have some immigrants obsession.
So when British kids are unhappy / being bullied see how many come up with ''immigrants'' being the problem.

originally posted by: Pluginn
a reply to: ChesterJohn

The Brits surely have some immigrants obsession.
So when British kids are unhappy / being bullied see how many come up with ''immigrants'' being the problem.

It's the same here in America. Must be the immigrants causing all the problems. Couldn't possibly be the corrupt private central banking system that is sucking the world dry of money. And I'm sure it isn't global corporations exploiting cheap oversees labor in nations with no minimum wage.

No it must be the immigrants. - End Sarcasm

guys do you not read straight?

"some" means some, not all

What do they do to the kid if they fight BACK ?

I'm mixed English and Trini and grew up in the 80s in a then completely white area just outside london, went to a white school and the bullying for the first couple of years was horrendous, it was so bad that when a black kid joined my class I was glad that I wasn't gonna get it as bad anymore. He spent a year being kicked up and down the playground being called a monkey before his parents saw sense and pulled him out.

The parents were even worse. We had bricks through the windows, petrol and fireworks through the letterbox, NF p@kis out spray painted on the side of the house (not the smartest or most accurate people our neighbours lol) my mum got spat on a few times. I moved to brixton in the 90s and my brother stayed there, he was nearly killed when he was 14 by white kids with baseball bats as he was walking home from school.

The weird thing was, when I moved to Brixton I got it from the black kids too but by then I was able to fight and it wasn't nearly as bad.

I don't really think it's got anything to do with race at its core. It's that people will look to intimidate anybody different. All this stuff about PC and multiculturalism being the root is moronic and is just further justification of bullying culture simply adjusted to reflect the times. Britain is a hateful, insular society and always will be.

a reply to: MagnaCarta2015

My daughter married a guy there and lives in Nottingham I hope their boys majke it through without getting too badly messed with.
Of course Grandpa would teach them about martial arts if I got the chance...