2 women pass Army Ranger School, first female graduates

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: Watcher777

And there are Green Berets who skipped Ranger school...

They do cross training too where even other branches can go to the school...for example Air Force Commandos on their pipeline often take a little trip to ranger school.

Not having that V can be career limiting, though.

But you bet, you definitely get AF TACPs in Ranger school. Considering they're possibly going to be embedded in Ranger regiment and/or ODAs, it is real useful for them and the group they embed with.

originally posted by: HUMBLEONE

originally posted by: Reallyfolks
a reply to: HUMBLEONE

Not to diminish true sexism when it happens but the no women in combat roles is rooted is a couple pretty big concerns beyond just the other sex isn't good enough. Should read up.

An equal right to be sent off to foreign lands and kill and get killed.

No

1) worried that in a combat situation that the men doing missions would be drawn towards protecting the women. Think some actual test/ studies were done on this. (I believe). Not too hard to believe. Think about the average guy being raised, don't hit women, get the women and children out first, etc.

2) if captured sexual assaults, common sense. Also what would that do to the psyche of both the men and women in combat? See concern 1, if men and women were both captured would informantion be given up more easily by both under the threat of rape? I mean to the average guy the thought of rape is pretty horrible. If a guy thought he could prevent one by giving up information he might not otherwise divuldge would he? What if he does and a female solider is raped anyway? In front of him? What's that do to the psyche of both the men and women?

3) combat area, stressful situation. What better way to relief stress? Consensual sex. Someone has std, starts spreading, pregnancy? Have to shuffle personnel around that maybe wasn't planned on? Does this affect operational success? Does this mean you have to stop progress for troop switch outs? Would this affect time sensitive misisions?

Not saying these will be issues but are possibilities that could be issues. Training will need to change. Do you start training men and women in basic together? How do you approach a mixed group of trainees and say " listens up ladies, if you are captured on the battle field you stand a good chance of being raped" how does that go over with new recruits. There are some training,operational, psychological aspects to be worked out.

If a lady meets the same requirements , understands the risk, and is still a go. All I can say is stay safe and get home like I would for any combat solider. Somethings need to be worked out.

Good for them.

And now Navy SEALs to open to women, top admiral says

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

This is cool they let them test but I worry some and here's why:

First let me say I don't want to come off sexist but wrap this scenario:

Rangers, SF, VIPR teams, DF, etc stay at high readiness 24/7. If I was a CO in Spec ops in Bragg planning stuff, how do you plan for when the women members are on that time of the month.... I say this because in reality you could be in the bush for a long time on some missions and the stink would be a major issue for everyone around and getting caught. One of the most important skill sets in spec ops is being invisible and if your on the rag I see that has a big issue as enemy scouts look for even the smallest things especially smell and also if your team-mate is on the rag are they mentally battle ready and prone for teamwork with the mood swings I think not....

Not saying women can't do the job, but if there's too much special consideration then that takes away from readiness and creates division within the troops. Don't believe me, just go overseas and see the reality of it....

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I have seen a Russian Woman throw a bag her size with one arm to the side like it was nothing (and it weighed probably as much as her size). And I remember hearing the loud THUMP as it landed on the floor leaving me with my mouth gaping.

That said, at a very young age in my teens, when sibling rivalry was more present (its normal in every household). I once hit my sister 2 times after being bullied by her. What happened next, after I turned my back thinking I had victory, was the incredible hulk rising within her.

I also personally seen my sister beat up a cop (her ex boyfriend mind you) that was twice her size!.

All Im trying to say is, I have a very and utmost deep respect towards women. And who ever said women were weaker than men, is wrong. Looks can be deceiving regardless of biology.

Moral of the story, never underestimate a woman because of how she appears to be, unless you want to have a bad time. Women possesses a strange power from within, This i can never truly explain. They are like the silent cats ready to pounce on their prey.

originally posted by: BlessedLore
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

This is cool they let them test but I worry some and here's why:

First let me say I don't want to come off sexist but wrap this scenario:

Rangers, SF, VIPR teams, DF, etc stay at high readiness 24/7. If I was a CO in Spec ops in Bragg planning stuff, how do you plan for when the women members are on that time of the month.... I say this because in reality you could be in the bush for a long time on some missions and the stink would be a major issue for everyone around and getting caught. One of the most important skill sets in spec ops is being invisible and if your on the rag I see that has a big issue as enemy scouts look for even the smallest things especially smell and also if your team-mate is on the rag are they mentally battle ready and prone for teamwork with the mood swings I think not....

Not saying women can't do the job, but if there's too much special consideration then that takes away from readiness and creates division within the troops. Don't believe me, just go overseas and see the reality of it....

Are you freaking kidding? Look up continual and seasonal birth control: Lybrel, Seasonale, Seasonique.

Please don't come back until you are "mentally battle ready.

The Israeli army found out the hard way that ladies and gentlemen don't mix in the front line, not westerners anyway, the Israeli army tank crew had a woman in it, the woman got injured, all the male crew exited to help her, thereby putting the tank out of action, with no damage to the tank!

originally posted by: pikestaff
The Israeli army found out the hard way that ladies and gentlemen don't mix in the front line, not westerners anyway, the Israeli army tank crew had a woman in it, the woman got injured, all the male crew exited to help her, thereby putting the tank out of action, with no damage to the tank!

They wouldn't have helped if it was a man injured?

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: pikestaff
The Israeli army found out the hard way that ladies and gentlemen don't mix in the front line, not westerners anyway, the Israeli army tank crew had a woman in it, the woman got injured, all the male crew exited to help her, thereby putting the tank out of action, with no damage to the tank!

They wouldn't have helped if it was a man injured?

Sounds like he is saying if it was a man, then 1 person not the entire crew would have helped, keeping tank operational while helping. Never worked on tank crew so don't know the ins and outs.

Congratulations to these two!
To answer the question a couple have asked: Why can't they serve in ranger bat?
First it should be noted that approximately 60% to 80% of those who are "ranger qualified" never get assigned to a ranger battalion. Needs of the army.

Second, as to women in combat units. My wife ( a traditional feminist and also a former soldier) and I (served as airborne infantry my first stint in the army) have discussed this before and what we came up with was this: Personal hygiene, plain and simple.

And yes, this is something men can do that so far; women cannot - Until they devise a way for women to safely go 60 + days in a grueling, sweaty, field exercise without bathing (something infantry companies do with some frequency) AND suffer no adverse health effects, then they should not be allowed into combat units.

There is also a disconnect in the use of the words "combat role". Soldiers know that while deployed, combat can happen to anyone. To a soldier the words combat role means specifically being assigned to a combat arms company, I.e. infantry.

No one that I knew would suggest that in a firefight the women should cower behind the menfolk...they had best get their cute butts on out and return fire like the rest, and they do. No one is saying women aren't capable of bravery, or fighting.

All I'm saying is there's just more to a combat role than combat.

a reply to: HUMBLEONE

An equal right to be sent off to foreign lands and kill and get killed.

Nobody is forcing those who sign up with the military to do so...it is their choice.

And they should know that it is a possibility when signing up, so again it is their choice to sign up.

a reply to: blood0fheroes

Yes indeed hygiene is the major issue.

Also as stated men have a tendency to disregard mission objectives when women are in distress, this discussion was had between me and fellow NCO's and those were the conclusions.

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

WHAT was your job in COMBAT?
They are not going to be able to accomplish 19D or 19K (completely) or 11b.
YOU have to have upper body and grip to do such jobs ,THIS idiot's social experiments will be flushed down the toilet as will MUCH of his other garbage when he leaves .

www.washingtontimes.com...

a reply to: Watcher777

And how do you feel about a DRAFT which is what the left is aiming for?

a reply to: boymonkey74

Well they were not accepted into the regiment so i dont think we will see much to them in the future.

In Norway we just passed 10 females into the FSK "Forsavrets spesialkommando". They did not compete With the men, but had their own selection tests. Speical forces have seen the need for female operators on the Field both in Afghanistan and in Iraq. We inlisted females to serve along With us in Afghanistan, CIA, FBI and the seal have it as well. But they have all passed differnt selections tests. ANd are only used for selected missions. Not as a full member operator.

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: HUMBLEONE

originally posted by: Reallyfolks
a reply to: HUMBLEONE

Not to diminish true sexism when it happens but the no women in combat roles is rooted is a couple pretty big concerns beyond just the other sex isn't good enough. Should read up.

An equal right to be sent off to foreign lands and kill and get killed.

No

1) worried that in a combat situation that the men doing missions would be drawn towards protecting the women. Think some actual test/ studies were done on this. (I believe). Not too hard to believe. Think about the average guy being raised, don't hit women, get the women and children out first, etc.

2) if captured sexual assaults, common sense. Also what would that do to the psyche of both the men and women in combat? See concern 1, if men and women were both captured would informantion be given up more easily by both under the threat of rape? I mean to the average guy the thought of rape is pretty horrible. If a guy thought he could prevent one by giving up information he might not otherwise divuldge would he? What if he does and a female solider is raped anyway? In front of him? What's that do to the psyche of both the men and women?

3) combat area, stressful situation. What better way to relief stress? Consensual sex. Someone has std, starts spreading, pregnancy? Have to shuffle personnel around that maybe wasn't planned on? Does this affect operational success? Does this mean you have to stop progress for troop switch outs? Would this affect time sensitive misisions?

Not saying these will be issues but are possibilities that could be issues. Training will need to change. Do you start training men and women in basic together? How do you approach a mixed group of trainees and say " listens up ladies, if you are captured on the battle field you stand a good chance of being raped" how does that go over with new recruits. There are some training,operational, psychological aspects to be worked out.

If a lady meets the same requirements , understands the risk, and is still a go. All I can say is stay safe and get home like I would for any combat solider. Somethings need to be worked out.

I think you misunderstand me. I don't want anybody to go to war. To participate in war is stupid. Why commit yourself to slavery, hardship and death or dismemberment for the sake of some Multinational corporation. Why would you go and risk your life and kill other people so that ultimately, some psychopathic corporation can steal the wealth of another sovereign
nation? Is you self esteem so diminish that you need some uniform or some ridiculous macho created hardship to prove yourself? Live your life in peace and don't kill.

a reply to: HUMBLEONE

Try and tell a 20 year old that. It takes years before a boy becomes a man and understand what he has been a part of.

At every selection we tell eachother.....Man.... these kids dont have a Clue what they are getting into.
The irony is that non of the instructors want to leave either. There are a lot of perks in this Field of work. Political morals are always argued in Our faviour. The Public are not the only once who are fed propaganda. Besides, if you do Your job very good you get a medal and a offisial government approval for a job well done. Who can resist that? Jesses christ even we give them high standards.

There is not a shortage of these high end dreamers.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Well since they are cutting back our military left and right I don't know how they could justify a Draft. Although I am sure the powers that be could figure out something. I don't think just young men should have to sign up for Selective Service. Young women should also have to sign up. We want equality, but we want "selected equality".