Could abortion be considered a double standard?

a reply to: Shepard64

What facts do you have the pill is 100 per cent effective for every woman? I know several the pill have failed. The best birth control I know. Look at her/him, and say to yourself, "do I want to be connected to this person forever with a baby?"

a reply to: WanderingSage

99% of the burden is on the female involved. That's just reality in every sense. I despise abortion and yet I despise anyone telling a woman or any person for that matter what they can or should do with there body ever. It's not as black and white as some like to make it out to be. I agree with your sentiments but practically speaking there is no true measure I can think of that brings about equality in this subject matter. Equality is a great ideal but it does not always work or apply. Somewhere along the line someone is forced into a situation against there will.

So I am not pro anything. I am one of many stuck in the middle of the arguments on this issue. ROE V WADE is the law of the land and states and politicians are trying to skirt around it by new legislation and loopholes and the reason for that is that the Supreme Court already ruled on the issue and people know the chances of reversing Roe V WADE is nearly impossible. The government and politicians and religious entities need to simply mind there own damn business in my view.

Man shoots a random woman walking in the park, this woman happens to be pregnant. If this lady dies, you can almost bet your ### the killer will be charged with double homicide. Even if she was on here way to get an abortion.

The double standard is there, no doubt about it.
I believe that there are times when abortion is necessary, when the life of the mother is at stake or the child isn't developed enough to survive, and for this I can't label myself pro-life. To say the women have exclusive authority to decide if their child gets a shot at life is a little foolish.

originally posted by: Skymoonwalker
Man shoots a random woman walking in the park, this woman happens to be pregnant. If this lady dies, you can almost bet your ### the killer will be charged with double homicide. Even if she was on here way to get an abortion.

When a person decides to remove one of their kidneys, it is not considered aggravated assault and it is totally legal, but if someone else attacks them and cuts out that person's kidney, it IS considered aggravated assault (even if the person was on their way to get their kidney removed). Same thing if a person with a terminal illness was on their way to commit an assisted suicide (in a state where it's legal) - if they are attacked and killed by someone on the way, it is still considered murder.

To say the women have exclusive authority to decide if their child gets a shot at life is a little foolish.

When a child can develop from a fertilized egg to a fully gestated baby outside the womb, then I will agree with you.

originally posted by: Shepard64
a reply to: Annee

I am talking about situations where the man is blind sided and was told that she was on the pill. Of course you could say "well why didn't he where a condom?" but what kind of person would lie about being on the pill, the kind of person who deserves to be stuck with the child on her own.

If a man does NOT want a child, it is up to HIM to provide his own birth control as well as asking the woman to provide her own. Redundancy is key - the pill is NOT 100% effective and a condom protects against unwanted disease for both partners in addition to being the "back up" protection.

Guys need to put their big boy pants on and take responsibility, knowing that ANY birth control a woman uses (unless she has had a hysterectomy or her tubes tied) could simply fail and a child could be created.

Sex = Baby. You don't want one? Make sure the "goalie" is in place to block that play!

As for abandoning a woman who said she was on the pill - how does a man know she lied? It is entirely possible that it failed, or that she accidentally messed up taking it at the right time - it doesn't mean she is evil!

I would agree that seducing a man under false pretense while claiming she is taking birth control is very very bad. That's why men need to understand they have to protect their own selves since they don't want kids.

- AB

originally posted by: Shepard64
a reply to: Annee

I am talking about situations where the man is blind sided and was told that she was on the pill. Of course you could say "well why didn't he where a condom?" but what kind of person would lie about being on the pill, the kind of person who deserves to be stuck with the child on her own.

Again blame the woman.

He should've worn a condemn even if she is on the pill. He should've taken personal responsibility to protect himself.

EVERYTIME you have sex there is the potential risk of pregnancy. If you aren't willing to take that risk, then keep it in your pants.

originally posted by: Skymoonwalker
Man shoots a random woman walking in the park, this woman happens to be pregnant. If this lady dies, you can almost bet your ### the killer will be charged with double homicide. Even if she was on here way to get an abortion.

The double standard is there, no doubt about it.
I believe that there are times when abortion is necessary, when the life of the mother is at stake or the child isn't developed enough to survive, and for this I can't label myself pro-life. To say the women have exclusive authority to decide if their child gets a shot at life is a little foolish.

No, that is not a double standard.

Abortion is her choice.

Having something taken from her in a violent crime is not by choice.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Skymoonwalker
Man shoots a random woman walking in the park, this woman happens to be pregnant. If this lady dies, you can almost bet your ### the killer will be charged with double homicide. Even if she was on here way to get an abortion.

When a person decides to remove one of their kidneys, it is not considered aggravated assault and it is totally legal, but if someone else attacks them and cuts out that person's kidney, it IS considered aggravated assault (even if the person was on their way to get their kidney removed). Same thing if a person with a terminal illness was on their way to commit an assisted suicide (in a state where it's legal) - if they are attacked and killed by someone on the way, it is still considered murder.

To say the women have exclusive authority to decide if their child gets a shot at life is a little foolish.

When a child can develop from a fertilized egg to a fully gestated baby outside the womb, then I will agree with you.

I've read we are pretty close to an artificial womb.

Love this quote I just saw :

"Abortion has never been about "choice"... It's about escaping the consequences of your choices by taking away all choices away from another human being."

Let's all be real here, women aren't interested in "equality" if that were the case there would be no such thing as "spousal support" you wouldn't hear women crying in court about how they've become accustomed to a certain lifestyle. This is just another example, it's one more thing they can hold over the heads of men that they won't give up. We could all act civilized and live in an adult world, but apparently the human brain for most just doesn't work that way. At the very least >50% of the population thinks that way, and that's how we've ended up with the jacked up society we live in now.

a reply to: kaylaluv

When a person decides to remove one of their kidneys, it is not considered aggravated assault and it is totally legal, but if someone else attacks them and cuts out that person's kidney, it IS considered aggravated assault (even if the person was on their way to get their kidney removed).

Are you actually trying to equate a kidney to a human being? A fetus is not an organ of the mother.

DNA.

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

No. I am comparing the actions of free will with the forced actions of assault. They are not the same.

a reply to: kaylaluv
Just checkin. The comparison involved an unborn baby and an organ. Glad you weren't equating them.

a reply to: Shepard64

Who cares if she says she is on the pill? Wear a rubber anyway.

And the reason non-custodial parents get "stuck with the bill" is because the state doesn't give a rat's rear end about your stupid "he said, she said" drama.

Or were you actually expecting the court to believe one side over the other?

This is super basic stuff people: You don't know a woman well enough to know for sure if she is "really on the pill," you don't know her well enough to NOT wear a condom.

a reply to: EverydayInVA

Guys go after spousal support all the time when the woman earns a lot more than they do. And sometimes even when they don't.


And there is nothing "jacked up" about our society. Socially -- things have never been better for women, gays, or minorities in general. The only people who ever complain are white males, and only because everyone else is almost treated fairly now, and that kinda sucks for them.

Tough luck, that.

I don't know why sooo many folks think abortion is OK, abortion is murder, it's no different than gunning down some innocent person on the street, it's taking a life period! a reply to: WanderingSage

Sentience in human beings is not present until the brain is formed and the neurological processes pertaining to information retention which form thus faculties are present and functioning as evolutionarily designed.

A foetus has no personality, emotion or intellect. It is an organism in its incipient stages and, not unlike a vehicle on an engineer's drawing board, cannot be held to the same standards as a car being driven on a road. As such, any so-called 'arguments' against abortion are fundamentally asinine and rooted in obtuse, likely religio-indoctrinated ignorance.

Case in point: Leviticus states that "Thou [men] shall not lay with a man as with a woman." (18:19) -- a passage that gave rise to homophobia and bellicose bigotry in Abrahamic religions. However, if one reads on, he also forbade the cutting of sideburns and beards; the application of tattoos or skin art; sowing seeds of differing varieties in the same field; interbreeding of animals; mixing of clothing fabrics...(!).

In other words, peoples' obversion to abortion is predicated upon prejudice elicited by the inculcation of selectively interpreted scripturalised superstition -- i.e., idiocy through ignorance. And, suffice it say, the opinions of the ignorant (much less,those fundamentally so) should not be taken seriously.

Hey guys, you know what's even more unfair than having to pay child support? Even more unfair than your girlfriend having an abortion without your permission?

The majority (73%) of family violence victims were female. Females were 84% of spouse abuse victims and 86% of victims of abuse at the hands of a boyfriend or girlfriend.

While about three-fourths of the victims of family violence were female, about three-fourths of the persons who committed family violence were male.

Females were 58% of family murder victims. Of all the murders of females in 2002, family members were responsible for 43%.

Eight in ten murderers who killed a family member were male. Males were 83% of spouse murderers and 75% of murderers who killed a boyfriend or girlfriend.

About 49% of family violence crimes recorded by police resulted in an arrest. Males comprised 77% of suspected family violence offenders arrested in 2000.

Of State prison inmates imprisoned for a crime against their son or daugh- ter, 79% had raped or sexually assaulted the child, and another 10% had killed the child.

Among family violence offenders in State prisons in 1997, most were male (93%)

Local jail inmates convicted of family violence reported that —
• their victims were predominantly female (79%)
• nearly 30% of their victims were under age 18.
Among local jail inmates convicted of family violence, 55% injured their victim.
Most convicted jail inmates serving time for violence against a family member (88%) did not use a weapon during the crime.
Among jail inmates convicted of family violence, 45% had been subject to a restraining order at some point in their life. About 18% were under an active restraining order at the time of admis- sion to jail.

Source

Total Custodial Mothers Requesting Government Assistance in Collecting Child Support (in the thousands) 3,314
Total Custodial Fathers (still in the thousands)....462

Custodial Mothers Below Poverty (in the thousands) 3,753
Custodial Fathers " .....427

Total Mean Income, Including Child Support Received Mothers- $30,363 Fathers- $42,042

Source 2


It has nothing to do with my statistics, but just for sh*ts and giggles here's this gem:
How to Convince a Girl to Have an Abortion

I keep trying to find a similar article, advising girls how to have an abortion and hide it from the father....but gee, there just aren't any. There's several advice column type things "Should I tell him?" kind of thing. And the general consensus is: You should tell him, unless 1. it was the product of rape/incest 2. you expect abuse or bullying by telling him 3. your mind is absolutely made up and nothing he can say will change it

Food for thought.

a reply to: PresidentHeston

Sentience in human beings is not present until the brain is formed and the neurological processes pertaining to information retention which form thus faculties are present and functioning as evolutionarily designed.

So when does sentience become present?

A foetus has no personality, emotion or intellect. It is an organism in its incipient stages

A fetus is a fetus until birth. What's your point?

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation

A fetus is a fetus until birth. What's your point?

You do know it's an embryo for the first 8 weeks, right?