Fetal tissue and how it has advanced medical science.

The overall impression I get from this thread is that such issues are useless to discuss with the no-choice crowd because they can never stay on point. They do not address any of the issues with rationality.

The OP was clear about the intended subject. To dispose of the tissue or to utilize the tissue that is the question.



They can't stay on point, but they can chant anti-choice/no-choice mantras. They will always lose the debates that revolve around the topic of abortion if they can't speak on the subjects.

a reply to: boymonkey74

s&f. i feel the exact same way. we can't stop it. so why not have the tissue go to some use rather than just being discarded like trash?

originally posted by: aorAki

...and if someone willingly has heterosexual sex, and despite all available precautions becomes pregnant and is mentally unfit for parenthood, or has complications which could result in her death due to that pregnancy, what then?

Lots of or's in that singular question.

1) Why are they mentally fit to willingly choose to have sex, mentally fit to take precautions, but mentally unfit for parenthood?
2) Medical complications are also a special case. In these cases, leave it to the mother if she will take the chance or not. If she chooses to terminate the pregnancy, then the child is given a name, birth and death certificate, and a full funeral. We should treat the child with dignity like any other innocent life that was taken too early.

What if, during the pregnancy, the woman's (we'll assume she is a woman, not an adolescent for this) family shun her due to her pregnancy and she dies?

Are you liking the two together? The shunning kills her? Care to elaborate/clarify?

I don't think people should, necessarily, bring a child into the world if they are pregnant. It's not that clear cut.

We disagree. I think it is pretty cut and dry. Heterosexual sex is designed to make babies. Denying it does not change biology. The responsible choice is to not engage in sexual activity if that person is not ready to have a child.

A foetus is not a child, either.

Something else we will disagree on.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu



Are you liking the two together? The shunning kills her? Care to elaborate/clarify?

Yes, it wasn't worded very elegantly. I meant that the shunning could cause her to take her own life.

originally posted by: TeikiatsuWe disagree. I think it is pretty cut and dry. Heterosexual sex is designed to make babies.

What about heterosexual anal sex and heterosexual oral sex?

Heterosexual sex can also be just for pleasure, without the intention of making a baby.

It is unrealistic to suggest that people abstain. It hasn't and won't happen, unless they are indoctrinated by (usually) conservative religious nonsense.

GENETIC RESEARCH SCIENTIST: LIKELY SOME ABORTED BABIES ARE ‘ALIVE UNTIL THEIR HEARTS ARE CUT OUT’

The biomedical scientist—who assisted the Center for Medical Progress (CMP) in its preparation to infiltrate Planned Parenthood and expose its practice of harvesting aborted baby parts for sale to biomedical companies—says she suspects that the “babies in some of these cases were alive until their hearts were cut out” for harvesting.
www.breitbart.com... _source=facebook&utm_medium=social
In an interview with Breitbart News, Dr. Theresa Deisher, a world-renowned scientist in the field of adult stem cell therapies and regenerative medicine, discussed what is involved in harvesting the organs of aborted babies.

“If you read scientific publications, in which they use the fetal material for some indications, particularly, cardio-vascular, or nerve cell research, they discuss the necessity of having tissue in the digesting buffer solution within five minutes for optimal yields,” she explains. “So, within five minutes of death, you would have to have the heart removed, and flushed of all blood, cleaned of any extra tissue that might be there, and the heart put into a liquid with enzymes that would digest the connective tissue and release the muscle cells.”

“Sometimes, they use an apparatus where they hook the heart up and they would flush fluid through it to keep it alive and beating,” she continues. “And you can’t have a dead heart that’s going to work in that kind of process.”

Deisher states that, in these cases, in order for the organs of aborted babies to be viable for research, the baby must be kept alive with a beating heart in order to get it through the harvest.

a reply to: Stormdancer777

Deisher states that, in these cases, in order for the organs of aborted babies to be viable for research, the baby must be kept alive with a beating heart in order to get it through the harvest.

Do you really believe the stuff you post?

Have you ever heard of a heart transplant? Do you think that they try to keep the person who is donating their heart alive, and cut it out of the person while they're still alive in the ER, and transfer it, still beating into the donee's chest??

Why do pro-life sites have to lie to promote their stance?

originally posted by: aorAki

originally posted by: Teikiatsu



Are you liking the two together? The shunning kills her? Care to elaborate/clarify?

Yes, it wasn't worded very elegantly. I meant that the shunning could cause her to take her own life.

I hope it doesn't go that far, there are shelters and churches that offer assistance in situations like that.

originally posted by: TeikiatsuWe disagree. I think it is pretty cut and dry. Heterosexual sex is designed to make babies.

What about heterosexual anal sex and heterosexual oral sex?

... are you just trying to be obtuse?

Heterosexual sex can also be just for pleasure, without the intention of making a baby.

Absolutely it can. Sex and pregnancy is a massive drain on resources, so it offers a positive feedback of endorphins.

But our reproductive organs don't care. They were designed with one function in mind: make babies.

It is unrealistic to suggest that people abstain.

I didn't say abstain. I said that if you aren't ready for a kid, or can't handle the responsibility of bringing a child into the world, then don't have sex. Don't engage irresponsibly in a physical behavior designed to cause pregnancy and produce kids. Take precautions, but remember that those precautions are not 100% safe.

It hasn't and won't happen, unless they are indoctrinated by (usually) conservative religious nonsense.

You were doing so well to seem objective until you had to say that last sentence. Then you had to let the mask slip and show your bias.

No wonder we disagree on this topic.

First thing's first: we are human beings. We are not animals in heat. People like to say we have higher intellect and can overcome our base instincts. Attitudes like 'it hasn't and won't happen' insinuates that we have no control.

Now to be fair, 'conservative upbringing' doesn't make kids any less horny than anyone else, or any less prone to make mistakes. It's not about lib/con, it's about bringing them up right and teaching them responsibility to themselves and to others. That can include contraception and other approaches, but also needs to include the caveat that they are not 100% effective.

I don't believe that abortion should be treated as a 'get out of responsibility' card. It's that simple to me.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

But our reproductive organs don't care. They were designed with one function in mind: make babies.

We were designed to outsmart and overcome nature.

First thing's first: we are human beings. We are not animals in heat. People like to say we have higher intellect and can overcome our base instincts.

We'll never overcome our base instincts. We use them as a base line for empathy and through altruism, an abstract but very real instinct, we evolve as a society.

We were designed to outsmart and overcome nature.

Interesting you should say so. By whom?

a reply to: The GUT

Why, by Mother Nature, of course!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Teikiatsu

But our reproductive organs don't care. They were designed with one function in mind: make babies.

We were designed to outsmart and overcome nature.

Obviously a lot of people are failing at that, in this case.

First thing's first: we are human beings. We are not animals in heat. People like to say we have higher intellect and can overcome our base instincts.

We'll never overcome our base instincts. We use them as a base line for empathy and through altruism, an abstract but very real instinct, we evolve as a society.

Um... you just said "We were designed to outsmart and overcome nature."

Which is it?

Also... guess how we evolve?

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Um... you just said "We were designed to outsmart and overcome nature."

Which is it?

We use our instincts to outsmart nature. We wear clothes to protect us from nature. We build homes to protect us from nature. We condition our air, we cook our food and refrigerate and freeze it to outsmart nature.

Our instincts to thrive is what led us to invent trains, planes and automobiles. The ability to thrive allows us to relax our "fight or flight" instincts and find our way to altruism.

Obviously a lot of people are failing at that, in this case.

But not as a society in whole. We have successfully used our instincts to thrive. We've altruistically created libraries, universities, hospitals, museums, zoos, parks......all for the betterment of our species and its ease to survive and thrive.

originally posted by: windword

We were designed to outsmart and overcome nature.

Except for tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, volcanoes, etc.

And of course, the natural acts of killing.

a reply to: xuenchen

We've developed alert systems and set up emergency protocols and evacuation centers. We store emergency food supplies, water and medicine, as well as sending trained personnel, all rushed to assist at disaster sites because of altruism.

“The wicked flatter themselves & do not hate or even recognize their guilt.”

5:40p: This afternoon Los Angeles District Court Judge Joanne O’Donnell lifted a temporary restraining order that had been placed against The Center for Medical Progress after fetal tissue procurement company StemExpress filed a lawsuit to try to block the release of any video involving its executives. That said, according to ABC News, “StemExpress was expected to seek a stay from an appeals court.” Within hours after the TRO was lifted, CMP posted a two-minute video entitled, “Human Capital Trailer,” on YouTube. The trailer shows clips of Planned Parenthood executives we’ve already seen in previously released videos, but it includes a new small clip (at the 1:25 mark) of StemExpress CEO Cate Dyer joking about shipping intact fetal cadavers: Oh, yeah, I mean if you had intact cases, which we’ve done a lot, that we sometimes ship those back to the lab in its entirety…. Tell the lab it’s coming. You know, open the box and go, “Oh, God,” ha ha ha.


- See more at: www.jillstanek.com...

youtu.be...



At 1:25 mark

The trailer shows clips of Planned Parenthood executives we’ve already seen in previously released videos, but it includes a new small clip (at the 1:25 mark) of StemExpress CEO Cate Dyer joking about shipping intact fetal cadavers: Oh, yeah, I mean if you had intact cases, which we’ve done a lot, that we sometimes ship those back to the lab in its entirety…. Tell the lab it’s coming. You know, open the box and go, “Oh, God,” ha ha ha. - See more at: www.jillstanek.com...

This is why.

Human embryonic and adult stem cells each have advantages and disadvantages regarding potential use for cell-based regenerative therapies. One major difference between adult and embryonic stem cells is their different abilities in the number and type of differentiated cell types they can become. Embryonic stem cells can become all cell types of the body because they are pluripotent. Adult stem cells are thought to be limited to differentiating into different cell types of their tissue of origin.

stemcells.nih.gov...

I wonder if they will ever come up with a 3d printer that you can feed stem cells into and it will print up a lifeform?
the idea is fascinating, while also being tad bit alarming.

leave men and science alone long enough and we will become the gods. but by the looks of things around me, we will make the gods of the old testament look like pussycats when it comes to the cruel and unusual punishment that can be dished upon our creation!!