Hero SAS sniper saves father and eight-year-old son from being beheaded by ISIS maniac

originally posted by: Answer
This thread is proof that ATS can turn anything into an argument.

No, this thread is proof of how stupid some people are regarding conflicts around the world, who started them, the actual agendas going on and how they think war is cool.

At the end of the day, and it's been this way for at least a hundred years plus, all war has ever done is to make the rich richer while the poor grow at their expense, that's the poor who weren't cannon fodder of course. And to the war-monger idiots on this thread, you like killing so much, why don't you strap on your guns & ship out and rid the world of your stupidity.

There is a fantastic book called Sniper One about the Brits in Iraq when the US apparently cocked up in Fallujah and moqtdr al sadr became the man the Brits in al amaragh (or something) started getting hit hard by the Mardi army supporters.

The book is about Dan Mills army sniper team.

At one point the UK sent down an (sole) SAS sniper with Marine Spotter and with a .50 cal to help out, they were taking pretty long kills.

Great read I would recommend highly.

a reply to: Kapusta

Dude, how cynical can you be? Three shots three kills IS one shot one kill, THREE TIMES....

At 1000 meters, there are only a couple of rounds that are accurate enough. .50 cal BMG and .300 ultramag come to mind.

The Remington 700 in .300 ultra mag is an extremely powerful round. My friend used mine to shoot a rabbit at 50 yds. Let's just say we weren't going to be having rabbit stew that night unless we wanted enough to make half a portion. Hell, you wouldn't have even had to dress it.

A 1000 meter shot is not all that terribly difficult for a good marksman. The middle east is actually good conditions for long distance shooting. open areas, extremely dry... as long as the wind isn't too strong, it's great conditions for long distance shooting.

Long distance shooting becomes difficult and complex in humid conditions and/or in canyons where wind directions change multiple times between shooter and target. Barometric pressure varies with elevation and weather conditions and makes the biggest difference outside of wind.

It comes down mainly to consistency of the rounds and the conditions under which you made your range cards.

Jaden

p.s. no one buys a rifle out of the box and shoots 1000 meters. You spend countless hours and rounds creating range cards at various elevations and distances with the specific optics you'll be using so that you can extrapolate and adjust for any conditions you might be firing in.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Dude, you apparently know very little about long distance shooting. There are complex calculations that have to be made to shoot long distance accurately, especially out of a cold barrel. Especially when calculating ranges off of mildot etc...

Jaden

a reply to: Masterjaden


whoomp whoomp whoomp , same old song and dance , Have you ever taken a 1000 yrd shot with a .50 cal silenced ?

People refused to factor out the major roll the silencer plays while taking a shot like that .

Not to mention 3 well placed shots seconds from each other. you do understand how much recoil a BMG has right ? You are telling me that after the first dude dropped "from a head shot" the others just stood around long enough to get hit with the same round ?

BUULLLLLL Shyte !

Besides its been mentioned on here many times that the link in question is known for their sensational propaganda .

You can choose to bask in the ignorance i'll however deny it !

I say these things respectfully ,please understand , I am thankful for your input .

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Sorry to burst your bubble, but sniper school does NOT teach to never go for head shots. It teaches to go for the best shot for the job. It teaches that the only way to stop a person dead in their tracks is to hit the brain stem which requires a shot right between the eyes just above the bridge of the nose. They also teach that it is a low percentage shot, and to not rely on it to stop, say, a hostage taker holding a gun to someone's head.

At 1000 yards, or meters, a head shot is lower percentage than body, but not by much for a strong marksman. Could they have embellished the article by saying head shot? Maybe, but they didn't necessarily have to.

Jaden

a reply to: Kapusta

hahah... the silencer plays NO role in that if your range cards are based on shooting the same match grade ammo through that silencer... Please learn something before spouting off b.s.

Jaden

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Dude, you apparently know very little about long distance shooting. There are complex calculations that have to be made to shoot long distance accurately, especially out of a cold barrel. Especially when calculating ranges off of mildot etc...

Jaden

Actually they CHEYTECH can hit target from cold almost 100 percent of the time btw,and yes there are BMGs with recoil reduction that can shoot within inches of each previous round with SUPPRESORS added as well(its not a silencer sheesh) The newer scopes coming to th earmy will do th esame thing the cheytech does but self contained into one unit eliminating the spotter posistion of a sniper team eventually.

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Kapusta

hahah... the silencer plays NO role in that if your range cards are based on shooting the same match grade ammo through that silencer... Please learn something before spouting off b.s.

Jaden

hahahahah you are telling me the possibility of a shot thrown low due to added weight of a silencer is not plausible ?
not to mention at 1000yrds . So lets see we have a sniper taking 3 shots with a silencer at 1000 yards ... hits 3 targets like a boss ?

nah... don't think so .

Again the link in question is known for sensational BS ....


you were saying ?

Silencers can be separated into two different types; those that touch the bullet as it passes through and those that do not. Silencers that use rubber disks called wipes touch the bullet and slow it down, this also lowers power and can make the accuracy so poor that it is only good for close range work. The rubber wipes are very effective in suppressing the noise from low powered firearms because they actually close a bit after the bullet passes and help slow the gas flow. However after a dozen rounds the wipes are damaged so much that they start letting more noise out and become useless after a while. Do a search for the Welrod pistol or the hush puppy, they used rubber disks, were not loud at all and could not hit the broad side of a barn. Modern silencers (and those made by Maxim 100 years ago) use metal cone shaped (or K, M shaped or slanted) baffles to divert gas flow much like a straight pass muffler on a car. While they are less effective than a silencer equipped with wipes, they will last thousands of rounds as long as they are not overheated. They generally screw onto the muzzle, but some telescope over the barrel or are integral to the (sometimes ported) barrel. A modern silencer equipped with baffles that is mounted correctly (ie straight) will generally not adversely affect accuracy except on the most accurate target rifles. They will affect the point of impact because they add weight to the barrel and change the way it moves under recoil. A silencer that telescopes over the barrel and applies tension can make the rifle more accurate.

a reply to: Kapusta

Like I said try learning about long distance shooting before throwing out talk about it. I SAID that if the range cards the marksman uses were done with the suppressor in place with the same match grade ammo, it wouldn't make a difference. IOW, If you sight in a rifle with a suppressor and the same optics AND the same match grade ammo, and that's what you're basing how many clicks your doing on your optics for a given range, it WILL still be accurate for that range, if all other conditions are the same.

Jaden

a reply to: Kapusta


Dude, they don't use meshes and wipes in suppressors for sniper rifles. Meshes and wipes are more effective for suppressing, but aren't used that often because of the accuracy reduction.

Yes and the comments there about baffle type suppressors affecting accuracy in high accurate long range rifles is only in comparison to not having a suppressor. That's why I said, if the ranging was done with the suppressor, then the shooting in real world situations will be accurate.

Hitting three targets "like a boss" at 1000 yards is NOT that difficult. The second round would likely be traveling down range before the first shot was even heard.

BTW, Suppressors on sniper rifles are not to prevent the shot from being heard, it's to limit the ability for those hearing it to know where it is coming from and they are great at that.

Jaden

a reply to: Masterjaden

For the sake of argument . let's focus on the fact that the link in question is known for producing sensational work.

What are your thoughts on that ?

originally posted by: ken10
No way could a sniper or his spotter discern that whole story from a kilometre away.

Amazing. You are very certain of what professional soldiers *can't* do.

So, which regiment did you serve in? What's your longest shot? You sound like an expert - i'm keen to know your experience in the field..

a reply to: Kapusta

Ok, the story may be sensationalized. It may be completely made up, but not because it is unbelievable or that they are trying to make the SAS sniper out to be super human. The described facts are not unbelievable in the least. I know several long distance shooters personally that are capable of it, not even including myself. Hitting three targets at 1000 yards with a semi-auto .50 bmg suppressed is not difficult for someone with a long distance computer and or experience and training.


Jaden

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Kapusta

Ok, the story may be sensationalized. It may be completely made up, but not because it is unbelievable or that they are trying to make the SAS sniper out to be super human. The described facts are not unbelievable in the least. I know several long distance shooters personally that are capable of it, not even including myself. Hitting three targets at 1000 yards with a semi-auto .50 bmg suppressed is not difficult for someone with a long distance computer and or experience and training.


Jaden

I am not saying the shot is impossible , I am however questioning the story's authenticity.

I mean think of all the seemingly impossible occurrences that had to have happen in the universe for us to be making this discussion . So nothing is impossible ...

However the likely hood of this shot taking place ,has a higher probability of fail rather then success. Would you agree the odds are not in the favor of someone taking a shot like this ?

a reply to: Masterjaden

i was just gonna let him run with that,ignorance is bliss. any how any one who knows anything about shooting knows that when any piece of equipment or parts are added to a rifle it is zeroed. be it optics, flash suppressor, bolts especially on gas operrated guns, and suppressors / silencers.

plus the suppressors used today are not like the old ones that had the wipes in them that actually touched the round which in turn slowed it down. now most high quality suppressors use baffles that don't touch the round.

plus they have found that the new suppressors add velocity, up to 40fps which at short ranges is not all that noticeable, but does make a difference at longer ranges. also they do change the POI ( point of impact), and trajectory of the round.
so therefore the need to zero your weapon when you put on the suppressor, and when you take it off.

here are a couple of good articles for the would be keyboard shooters.

Regarding ballistics, it’s important to recognize that this single term encompasses many different factors. (Check out my previous articles on ballistics fundamentals if you haven’t already.) For muzzle velocity specifically, suppressors produce an effect known as freebore boost. In my ballistics articles, I explained how barrel length increases velocity up to a point since the expanding propellant gases have more time to accelerate the bullet. Well, a suppressor adds to that time, so particularly on short-barreled weapons (pistols, submachine guns, and carbines) you’re likely to see a boost. (Serious but not laboratory-quality experiments have measured an increase of about 50 fps.)
Chasing the Truth About Supressors and Accuracy

Suppressors Enhance Accuracy
Unless improperly installed or attached, suppressors do make shooting more accurate. Velocity change is low to nonexistent and generally increases. Modern designs have no adverse affect on the bullet. Standard deviation decreases, as a rule, providing consistency, and significant recoil reduction allows you to be more accurate. Less muzzle rise, less sound and less concussive effect also help a shooter improve accuracy. As long as they do not come loose and are installed properly, modern suppressors will do nothing less than enhance a shooter’s accuracy.
Suppressor Effects

there are many more out there that say the same. plus the temperature of the barrel has a lot to do with it.

to address the claim of the article being a fluff piece, seeing how many people lean towards snopes.com as being the gospel, i have sent a email yesterday and hope they will investigate. haven't heard anything back or found anything posted.

originally posted by: Kapusta
hahahahah

you are telling me the possibility of a shot thrown low due to added weight of a silencer is not plausible ?

The cite you attached isn't really telling you what's going on there.

When the rifle fires, and the bullet starts down the barrel, the barrel will start doing something you can't see with your naked eye - basically, it starts gyrating or whipping. Not a lot, and very fast, and you can't see it doing that without a super high speed camera.

But if you diddle the system by adding weights to the end of the barrel, such as a suppressor you weren't using when you set it up, then, yes, that whip will change and you won't hit where you did before. It can cause the rifle to do odd things - it might shoot to the side or high instead, which doesn't make immediate sense if you don't know the mechanism.

Barrel whip is why some rifles are picky about bullet weight, why properly bedded rifles with forearms tend to be less picky, and why you don't want brush touching the end of the rifle on longer shots. It's also why you see match rifles and rifles used for long military shots generally have "bull barrels", which takes some of that out of the equation, and why a Barrett barrel is fluted.

However, you can use it to your advantage. For some rifles, maybe most of them, if you want to squeak the last little bit out of it for field work, you can get the armorer to fiddle with barrel weights. There are different types of barrel whip. Some are chaotic. That's the sort you don't want. For a particular bullet shape, weight, powder type and load, you can tune the barrel by adding on a threaded weight that looks a bit like a flash suppressor. You want to get the barrel whip to be non-chaotic, and consistent. You do that by varying the weight and the offset of the weight a little, and shooting a group, then doing that again and again until the groups are very tight. And it takes all damn day to do, because you can't let the barrel get too hot, the temperature will also affect the whip and you won't be taking your first long shot with a hot barrel.

eta: a barrel weight system would have more of an effect on, say, an M14 than a Rem 700 due to the barrel design.

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Sorry to burst your bubble, but sniper school does NOT teach to never go for head shots. It teaches to go for the best shot for the job. It teaches that the only way to stop a person dead in their tracks is to hit the brain stem which requires a shot right between the eyes just above the bridge of the nose. They also teach that it is a low percentage shot, and to not rely on it to stop, say, a hostage taker holding a gun to someone's head.

At 1000 yards, or meters, a head shot is lower percentage than body, but not by much for a strong marksman. Could they have embellished the article by saying head shot? Maybe, but they didn't necessarily have to.

Jaden

I never said Sniper school never teaches you never to go for the head shot, in fact i never even mentioned what sniper school teaches anyone. If, as you say, It teaches to go for the best shot for the job, then surely 50 cal centre mass would be that particular "Best" shot...A 50 cal to the nuts would put you down never mind the Brain Stem.

As i have said repeatedly now in this thread, This for me is just Journalism at it's most creative/down right lies . I'm surprised the journalist never said, Three Head shots with one Bullet, then proceed to post a pic of a ear plug as evidence of the deadly 50 cal round itself.

I suppose, whether or not to go for the head shout, that would depend largely upon the circumstances.

Assuming this particular incident hasn't been, shall we say, spiced up a bit...We don't know how the hostages were positioned, where the would be murderers were...

A head shot might have been the only viable shot to stop the imminent action, a beheading.

I suspect that there may have been a bit of editorial licence taken here. We don't know. It's my understanding that SAS operations are kept confidential, much like Seal operations. About the only thing we're ever going to get is rumour.