sanders and Black Lives Matter.....conspiracy?

a reply to: thinline

I don't think there's a conspiracy. I think a few activists have been misinformed or are acting on too little information and took it too far and I don't think it's fair to judge the whole movement by the actions of these few.

I don't think Bernie will increase security, he understands all the ins and outs, ups and downs of grass roots movements and I think he doesn't perceive a threat.

a reply to: Kali74

Hmmm.

a reply to: xuenchen

I stand corrected, there were a few back in the day.

Agent provocateur: This woman participated in #BlockTheBoat as a Palestinian.

I hope BLM can really get these people distanced from the cause.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: xuenchen

I stand corrected, there were a few back in the day.

I agree not many.

a reply to: dreamingawake

Activists can participate in a variety of different causes. I don't like what she did at the Bernie Sanders rally, that doesn't make her an agent provocateur.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: dreamingawake

Activists can participate in a variety of different causes. I don't like what she did at the Bernie Sanders rally, that doesn't make her an agent provocateur.

This woman?

What IS she? Has BLM Seattle denounced HER?

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

No. The person I replied to was talking about a different woman.

This hurts and sickens me. This over emphasis on race, this anger and misguidedness.

This BLM group is just another one of the black 'advocacy' groups that pops up every so often to attempt to separate whats left of the working class black provider from his money, while sowing a bit of good old fashioned leftist discord in for good measure. I have seen this play out for a half century now. It's sinister and divisive and exclusionary with a bit of semantic twists thrown in to confuse the true meaning of this 'movement'.

While white folk, for the most part, will giggle with ecstatic glee and condemn the police,explain what THEY think this is about, and pledge thousand year loyalty to the newest great and noble cause sweeping the land, the black folk in west Birmingham (like me) roll our eyes and realize it is just the latest 'gangsta thang'. Likely created by some faceless yet well heeled think tank somewhere that simply saw another opportunity to exploit the damning and poisoned black thug and drug culture. A culture that feeds on and creates the discord to begin with. And has virtually torn our society apart.

As a law abiding black working class america male, I don't know how I'm going to eventually go to meet my maker, but I can tell you it won't be in a hail of police gunfire because I happen to be a black man.

So they can hashtag this for my part : Black lives matter, damned straight. But apparently not enough to clean up the idiocy we see right outside our doors, in our cities, in our prisons, in our hoods and in our hoodies. Fix the brotha next door. It's our BLACK culture that is killing us and the 'ism' that has nearly destroyed us is leftism moreso than racism.

I apologize for turning this into a rant, but damn, it kills me.

originally posted by: dreamingawake
Agent provocateur: This woman participated in #BlockTheBoat as a Palestinian.

I hope BLM can really get these people distanced from the cause.

I saw this as well -- it seems that there is more to the story than meets the eye.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I don't think so. I don't think it's beyond Hillary or her camp but they seem like authentic activists to me, I've participated in several different types of causes, anti-war, climate, against Monsanto, Occupy, BLM... I think jumping to the agent provocateur claim, takes strength out of legit claims when it happens.

I also think people start grasping at straws because they feel like they have to be all or nothing in everything they do. It is possible to say that you don't like what these activists did without denouncing the entire movement AND not be one bit disloyal to Bernie's campaign.

Grassroots movements and campaigns are fragile. We that get involved with them know this, we know that we are a bit like glass cannons, powerful but one misfire and we can shatter. It's made that much more difficult because we act from our hearts making that which is most vulnerable in humans, completely naked... when we feel attacked we don't always do the smartest things in defense.

Going after these women, in my opinion, is not the least bit smart. Bernie's got this. BLM's got this. The rest of us need to stand down and let them work it out.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: DenyObfuscation

No. The person I replied to was talking about a different woman.

I see that now. I didn't recognize her as being the Palestinian actorvist at the link.

My questions about the other one, Ms White Tears, are still valid.

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

What IS she?

A black woman. An activist.

Has BLM Seattle denounced HER?

I have no idea.

a reply to: Kali74

A black woman. An activist.

Don't forget racist. A racist representative at the forefront of what is claimed to be an anti-racism movement.

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

You are deciding for a group that you dislike, that she is at the forefront of it. You took it upon yourself to speak for thousands of other people, people that you, at best, disagree with and declare her the leader of the movement.

She might be a racist (her shirt isn't indicative of anything but anger at white people), we don't know.
She might have chosen to take incorrect actions for a grievance that she has.
What she didn't do, is state that she speaks and acts for anyone but herself and the other INDIVIDUALS that stood with her.

What is it that makes you feel you are entitled to speak for a group that you clearly dislike?

a reply to: Kali74

You are deciding for a group that you dislike, that she is at the forefront of it.

Who was she representing on that stage?

You took it upon yourself to speak for thousands of other people, people that you, at best, disagree with and declare her the leader of the movement.

Citation required.

She might be a racist (her shirt isn't indicative of anything but anger at white people), we don't know.

Laughably pathetic. I'll have to remember that one though.

She might have chosen to take incorrect actions for a grievance that she has. What she didn't do, is state that she speaks and acts for anyone but herself and the other INDIVIDUALS that stood with her.

If that were true the group should not be apologizing for the actions. They should denounce them and distance themselves from them.

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

You're still speaking for them, declaring how they should handle it. Ultimately you are demanding that a group justify itself to you when you won't ever recognize their grievances as legitimate. They owe you nothing. Neither do I.

a reply to: Kali74

You're still speaking for them, declaring how they should handle it.

It's common sense. You're trying to spin it as the girls only represent themselves. They clearly were on the stage representing BLM. BLM 'apologized' rather than deny that representation. You want it both ways and you're not going to get it.

Ultimately you are demanding that a group justify itself to you when you won't ever recognize their grievances as legitimate.

Nonsense. I'm illustrating the fallacies in your logic.

They owe you nothing. Neither do I.

No one is forcing you to reply. It's not like you're helping your cause by doing so anyway.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: DenyObfuscation

You are deciding for a group that you dislike, that she is at the forefront of it. You took it upon yourself to speak for thousands of other people, people that you, at best, disagree with and declare her the leader of the movement.

She might be a racist (her shirt isn't indicative of anything but anger at white people), we don't know.
She might have chosen to take incorrect actions for a grievance that she has.
What she didn't do, is state that she speaks and acts for anyone but herself and the other INDIVIDUALS that stood with her.

What is it that makes you feel you are entitled to speak for a group that you clearly dislike?

Usually you and I are in agreement. We have spoken about our climate action in the past.

I also am an ally regarding social justice.

However, the older I get the more double standards I see. If a white person wore a shirt "Drinking black tears" or something similar, it would be considered racist. We need to stop justifying racism, bigotry, bad actions, offensive statements by some people of color, stop giving license to it because of historical oppression. Still destructive. Still divisive.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I'm not justifying what these four people did, I just won't denounce BLM over it.