Bigfoot bodies and Mount St. Helens

originally posted by: spookysully

originally posted by: tiger_tts
a reply to: spookysully

Thanks for your posts Spookysully. Nice to hear from someone with real understanding of the vast size of wilderness areas and experience being out in it. Also glad you don't care if others believe or not. I am curious about the "2 different kinds". Would you be willing to tell more? Please PM if you like.

Thanks tiger and crazyeddie as well! I don't mind sharing my experiences with anyone willing to listen! I've sent a pm to you tiger and hope you've received it, I'll get one sent to crazyeddie as well. My apologies for highjacking the thread for a second. Cheers

Thank you,spookysully.

ETA:I have read other accounts of members here at ATS,who have claimed to see what spookysully saw.Respectable members ,who I believe,spookysully included.These members are not crazy or have over active imaginations.They saw something that can only be described as a Sasquatch.

originally posted by: SheepDipped

originally posted by: [post=19719240]jaffo[/

Right. He found a dead BF but in the year 2015 did not get one photo of it or a piece of hair or a turd or anything.

Obviously, you didn't read the op correctly, or are simply unable to comprehend the story correctly, and as such, your opinion about the story is of no value.

Actually, yes I did. I was referring to his claim of a more recent experience with a dead BF. Clearly I'm not the one who needs to pay attention a bit closer. Just saying. . .

originally posted by: crazyeddie68

ETA:I have read other accounts of members here at ATS,who have claimed to see what spookysully saw.Respectable members ,who I believe,spookysully included.These members are not crazy or have over active imaginations.They saw something that can only be described as a Sasquatch.

It's unlikely that all who claim to have seen bigfoot are either insane/ have over active imaginations/ are lying about such things. This doesn't bolster the claim itself though (that bigfoot exists). While those things, or even a mixture of some of those things are possible, all we know is that nothing has ever genuinely indicated a physical existence for bigfoot (it relies on pseudo science).

Humans are also very fallible and perception is an involved topic, bit it is possible for normal people to believe they encounter something not really there.

Normal healthy people can also suffer dissociation at times (for many reasons, though not well understood). While we know all of these things happen, in contrast there has never been anything that would indicate bigfoot physically exists. This is what makes it fascinating IMO.

There is quite a history of humans claiming to see things that are unlikely to really exist/ weren't really there (aliens, wolfman, fairies, dragons and so on). 40,000 or more people supposedly watched the sun start spinning, changing colours and do a jig around the sky last century. Who can say they were lying/insane/had over active imaginations? Some of them were sceptical before this. Yet it is a near certainty it didn't really happen, that the sun didn't really do these things (ie. no one else on earth documented it, what we know of physics/heliophysics, planetary/stellar motion and even chemistry make it more than unlikely).

Anecdotes are what folklore thrives on. That doesn't mean there won't be people who really believe what they say. It's the more outlandish stories and the people/ groups that seem to find bigfoot regularly that seem dubious. While not everyone is lying, there are a lot of bigfoot whoppers being told and hoaxes, obviously.

a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

You're trying way too hard to disagree buddy. Not sure where your information comes from but quoting someone's counting doesn't explain away so many finding truths out where you're a stranger. If you'd like to debate the possibility of such a creature to exist in the expanses of wilderness available, I'd be more than willing and if I can learn something from you beyond how to google until I find what I'm looking for, all the better! But your passive aggressive logic is doing nothing but calling me a delusional idiot that is either making up stories to entertain you or I'm just deceitful which isn't the case. Granted, you'll have to accept that these truths are self evident as we don't know each other and aren't enjoying company and having a beer.

Again, a fair debate would be welcomed! How are you so sure there is nothing out there except what "science" tells you? Have you spent much time out there or is your expertise as mentioned with the google page?

By the way, your information claiming that there has never been anything that would indicate bigfoot physically exists is completely false. There have been many physical evidences along with more anecdotal evidence than you'd care to google provided to numerous agencies and labs for treatment.

You call bs on another using a strawman yet with your 40,000 or more people supposedly watching the sun start spinning, changing colours and do a jig around the sky last century, you're doing nothing less. You're also working in some sarcasm which is to be expected.

I would love for you to explain how you're so confident! Many cheers

originally posted by: spookysully
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

You're trying way too hard to disagree buddy.Not sure where your information comes from but quoting someone's counting doesn't explain away so many finding truths out where you're a stranger. If you'd like to debate the possibility of such a creature to exist in the expanses of wilderness available, I'd be more than willing and if I can learn something from you beyond how to google until I find what I'm looking for, all the better! But your passive aggressive logic is doing nothing but calling me a delusional idiot that is either making up stories to entertain you or I'm just deceitful which isn't the case. Granted, you'll have to accept that these truths are self evident as we don't know each other and aren't enjoying company and having a beer.

Not trying hard at all, it isn't required concerning bigfoot. Simply pointing out why anecdotes alone, not only yours, but anyone else's for that matter, do nothing to make bigfoot other than folklore. Would be interesting to hear why you would think this is not so.

Obviously an extant species of bigfoot (or aliens etc) is not necessary, for people to tell stories of bigfoot. This isn't meant as a personal slight on yourself, if you take it that way, you are being unrealistic. Only you know if your claim is honest, which is somewhat the point. If you can debate the claims themselves relevant to the topic, a debate would be fine.

It might be worth reading my post again. Where I go to some lengths to explain that normal, sincere and honest people can believe they have had a bigfoot experience (despite bigfoot not existing).

originally posted by: spookysullyAgain, a fair debate would be welcomed! How are you so sure there is nothing out there except what "science" tells you? Have you spent much time out there or is your expertise as mentioned with the google page?

I'm only as sure about bigfoot as I am about aliens, fairies and the like.

originally posted by: [post=19736323]By the way, your information claiming that there has never been anything that would indicate bigfoot physically exists is completely false. There have been many physical evidences along with more anecdotal evidence than you'd care to google provided to numerous agencies and labs for treatment.

There is plenty of claimed bigfoot evidence for sure. The problem is that it's very poor evidence and almost entirely anecdotal. Slightly worse than for the people claiming aliens whisk them off at night. Every single piece of claimed bigfoot evidence (yes 100%) that has been conclusive, has been conclusively not bigfoot. Usually hoaxed or sometimes rather imaginatively "misidentified".

originally posted by: spookysullyYou call bs on another using a strawman yet with your 40,000 or more people supposedly watching the sun start spinning, changing colours and do a jig around the sky last century, you're doing nothing less. You're also working in some sarcasm which is to be expected.

It's only a strawman if you go to some lengths to take it out of context. It was to point out that humans have a long and well documented history of claiming to have encounters with things that weren't really there or don't exist. Do you know much about subjects that could explain this? Have you researched it? There was no attempted sarcasm there.

originally posted by: spookysullyI would love for you to explain how you're so confident! Many cheers

I doubt that though will keep it in mind, but you have a funny way of showing it. I am open to the possibility you are not making it up. Though in the end I can't know either way. Though people obviously do tell bigfoot whoppers (yes, it is documented) and if you're expecting belief from others based on stories, you might as well be preaching a religion.

I'm also very open to the possibility of unknown hominids or Apes existing, as yet I don't find anything very convincing. Quite the opposite. I was very hopeful once that bigfoot existed, among others, though not any longer. Something else is going on.

I'll make another post explaining why your "bigfoot of the vast wilderness" claims amount to nonsense and why, when I get a chance. If it is genuine debate of the subject you are after.

originally posted by: TheLieWeLive
a reply to: Bloodydagger

I'm having trouble with the guy who spoke Bigfootanese.
I don't have a problem believing the possibility of a Sasquatch but someone out there can speak thier language? Nah not buying it.

It is a good story but my BS meter was pinging.

Interestingly, there is a lady down south, maybe Virginia who claimed to have a family of Bigfoot living nearby. According to her, she speaks with them often and they are capable of speaking English as well. Take it for what it's worth. That part of the story isn't an end all for me.

The pig pill to swallow was how they travelled to multiple site by jeep so there was no blaze currently there yet these Bigffot were all dead or burned. Idk cool story though.

a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

As I've mentioned many times, I've no interest in convincing you, or anyone else of anything my friend. I'm simply engaging in a discussion about something I've experienced first hand. I know that to bring this topic up in general conversation brings many, feeling a need to protect the populace from something they haven't experienced, into a battle of explanations and I just can't argue existence with anyone any longer, its pointless, tiring, unenjoyable, unrewarding, the list goes on and on. Basically, I have to look at the end result which in this case just doesn't seem worth the argument. I know what I've seen and experienced and now I know that you, like me, will only rely on your experiences and what you've seen or heard. This is a perfect stalemate and one I've had before, many times! Ha ha! No hard feelings and I hope you'll not think me willing to contrive stories to garner either your interest or your confidence, no offense, I just don't care if you believe. Its 2015, and nothing's shocking, stories of Sasquatch or elaborate alien dramas alike abound across the broad of the internet and we don't need another one to prove anything to anyone.

For what its worth, I've had many such encounters and not just a walk that provided a glimpse of something I couldn't put into context and thus, called it a Sasquatch. I was raised in the mountains and grew up knowing my surroundings, what, when and where things are and how to handle unexpected circumstances should they arise and have not been known to scream "something crazy!!" before first taking the time to evaluate a situation. This isn't a bragging right, it was strictly a matter of survival when you're in an environment that can turn to ***t in a matter of minutes and literally leave you in dire straights. Head into the Bob Marshal Wilderness on horseback, pulling 2 pack mules full of hunting gear in a snow storm with your father, having already explained things, riding ahead of you without much thought. I started this when I was around 15, oh! I had my little brother to look out for as well! Ha ha.

My father was overbearing and just not a very nice fella but he taught me to be honest and to speak my mind when I have answers. You don't agree and I understand as that is the way of things with most people. A man's word is nothing anymore because of the medium we're engaging in but its what we humans have at our disposal to talk with people across such great distances and as you mentioned, stories are everywhere here!

I understand that people can see what they're looking for as well and whether this is a ufo, lizard man or Sasquatch, its irrelevant to almost everyone except the person seeing or experiencing it. For me, it happened when I was younger and I was able to look at my experiences without any preconceived ideas or opinions ( no internet! Just ranch hands with some experiences of their own, guys I trusted.) which, I'll admit, helped me with similar experiences I had later in life in that I wasn't afraid to look at something for what it appeared to be and knowing the accepted fauna was left to explore with more... Leisure??

I'll leave you to your opinions as I found them and hope you can see enough of mine to help explain why I tried to share some extraordinary moments in my life here on this forum discussing the Sasquatch. Cheers

a reply to: Bloodydagger I'm not buying the story!!! Living in the location for many years and went camping out there many times, they do have natives here, but doubt they speak the same tongue. I've ran into black bear in North Bend, lots of bears and they stand on two legs too!!! I've called out while drinking one night camping, Yahooooooo! I got replied back, and than a possible intrusion when we went to sleep by a bear or elk. It sounded like a bear with its breathing. The Yahoo are black with green eyes and they are said to be smart enough to start a camp fire.

originally posted by: spookysully
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

As I've mentioned many times, I've no interest in convincing you, or anyone else of anything my friend. I'm simply engaging in a discussion about something I've experienced first hand. I know that to bring this topic up in general conversation brings many, feeling a need to protect the populace from something they haven't experienced, into a battle of explanations and I just can't argue existence with anyone any longer, its pointless, tiring, unenjoyable, unrewarding, the list goes on and on.

That's good, you won't be disappointed then when I tell you stories and make believe science aren't very compelling. That's not a personal slight on yourself. David Attenborough himself should be held to the same standards if he were to claim that bigfoot was real.

You have also made some big assumptions there. You might not be as special as you think.

Basically, I have to look at the end result which in this case just doesn't seem worth the argument.

In other words, you are after agreement. Without being able to provide the slightest bit of scientific evidence. That would be more of a backslapping party than a discussion. To discuss from opposing views can be healthy. I would change my opinion about bigfoot if something genuinely indicated that it exists. In this way, my opinion is only provisional. It really wouldn't take much, but it will take more than stories and pseudo science. Could you consider the possibility that sociology and the cognitive sciences might offer viable explanations your experience?

I know what I've seen and experienced and now I know that you, like me, will only rely on your experiences and what you've seen or heard. This is a perfect stalemate and one I've had before, many times! Ha ha! No hard feelings and I hope you'll not think me willing to contrive stories to garner either your interest or your confidence, no offense, I just don't care if you believe. Its 2015, and nothing's shocking, stories of Sasquatch or elaborate alien dramas alike abound across the broad of the internet and we don't need another one to prove anything to anyone.

You keep assuming that disagreement with yourself equals lack of experience. Not necessarily so.

It's very likely there are at least some people being quite genuine when they recount a bigfoot experience (though make believe and telling whoppers is obviously rife within the bigfoot community). It's been happening around the world for a very long time. The difference is that I see it far more likely there will be other reasons for it.

For what its worth, I've had many such encounters and not just a walk that provided a glimpse of something I couldn't put into context and thus, called it a Sasquatch. I was raised in the mountains and grew up knowing my surroundings, what, when and where things are and how to handle unexpected circumstances should they arise and have not been known to scream "something crazy!!" before first taking the time to evaluate a situation. This isn't a bragging right, it was strictly a matter of survival when you're in an environment that can turn to ***t in a matter of minutes and literally leave you in dire straights. Head into the Bob Marshal Wilderness on horseback, pulling 2 pack mules full of hunting gear in a snow storm with your father, having already explained things, riding ahead of you without much thought. I started this when I was around 15, oh! I had my little brother to look out for as well! Ha ha.

Approach it a different way and it might be more understandable. Or you could just hold onto the notion that, unlike everyone else, you aren't affected by human foibles. Lots of people, when they realise there is no undiscovered species, take on the "paranormal bigfoot" explanation as a way to rationalise their experience. Understandable, but the paranormal itself is likely to be explainable in the same way as bigfoot.

It is not necessarily abnormal to have had experience with bigfoot, ufo's, ghosts, telepathy or any one of countless similar things. In fact, quite the opposite. Statistically, to have no such weird experiences or hold no such beliefs would be abnormal in that such people would belong to the minority. A large portion of our society not only thinks a 2000 yr old magical zombie is going to offer them eternity, but many claim direct experience with this zombie and see it as quite a desirable quality to hold such a belief. Us humans are overwhelmingly irrational.

My father was overbearing and just not a very nice fella but he taught me to be honest and to speak my mind when I have answers. You don't agree and I understand as that is the way of things with most people. A man's word is nothing anymore because of the medium we're engaging in but its what we humans have at our disposal to talk with people across such great distances and as you mentioned, stories are everywhere here!

Yes, stories are everywhere yet bigfoot/aliens/whatever seem to be nowhere. There will be a genuine reason for that. There are people I find very credible in that they genuinely seem to have had an experience with something they perceived as bigfoot (and on more than one continent).

I'll leave you to your opinions as I found them and hope you can see enough of mine to help explain why I tried to share some extraordinary moments in my life here on this forum discussing the Sasquatch. Cheers

The most intelligent opinion I ever heard from a believer went something like..."despite the evidence for such a thing being so poor, I still believe they exist due to personal experience"...That's fair enough. It's only when you think other people should also believe based on this, or cite the normal bigfooter gish gallop of fallacies and claims, that it becomes a problem. A recipe for disappointment.

a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum
Wow, guess I struck a nerve eh? Look man, I just don't care if you believe in the Sasquatch, me or anything else and its really as simple as that. That's not a slight on you, Ha ha ha I just don't care! As far as your ill placed time and effort interpreting things I've said goes, wow! I'll say it again, your passive aggressiveness is on point today! Wham!! Ha ha, thanks man!

And when I mentioned experience, I surely wasn't intending it in the way you used it for your argument. I am not in any competition with you sport and I would like to reiterate, again that I've no interest in debating existence.

You had mentioned that you had some information that would prove there is nothing Sasquatch like in the wilds of Canada, America and Mexico and I was wondering what it could possibly be. I would discuss how you know there is nothing in the vast expanses of woodlands, forests, swamps etc. etc. etc. Not to squabble over Sasquatch but how you're able to make such a claim with really, anything being or not being out there and can you convince someone who's been there a few times.

If you noticed any passive aggressive behavior, I apologize and will refrain! I agreed to a time limit for this silly banter machine to keep my girlfriend happy and am getting that look so I gotta bolt. Cheers

originally posted by: spookysully
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum
Wow, guess I struck a nerve eh? Look man, I just don't care if you believe in the Sasquatch, me or anything else and its really as simple as that. That's not a slight on you, Ha ha ha I just don't care! As far as your ill placed time and effort interpreting things I've said goes, wow! I'll say it again, your passive aggressiveness is on point today! Wham!! Ha ha, thanks man!

And when I mentioned experience, I surely wasn't intending it in the way you used it for your argument. I am not in any competition with you sport and I would like to reiterate, again that I've no interest in debating existence.

You had mentioned that you had some information that would prove there is nothing Sasquatch like in the wilds of Canada, America and Mexico and I was wondering what it could possibly be. I would discuss how you know there is nothing in the vast expanses of woodlands, forests, swamps etc. etc. etc. Not to squabble over Sasquatch but how you're able to make such a claim with really, anything being or not being out there and can you convince someone who's been there a few times.

If you noticed any passive aggressive behavior, I apologize and will refrain! I agreed to a time limit for this silly banter machine to keep my girlfriend happy and am getting that look so I gotta bolt. Cheers

That was rather overtly ad hominem. If you continue to construe different opinion is as a personal insult, we might be better calling this quits. It might be worth restricting discussion to among those who are less questioning/ more accepting of campfire yarns?

I doubt I would have mentioned "proof" of anything regarding bigfoot non existence in this thread. You might have to provide a quote, for context. There are exceptionally good reasons to arrive at that opinion though. Yet there is no way (that I know of) to prove bigfoot, fairies, mermaids etc don't exist. That would require proving a negative. Though as no bigfoot, or part of one, has ever been found and genuinely documented in the entirety of recorded human history...

My opinion would reflect the scientific consensus (with one difference). Science doesn't really arrive at "facts" as much as best explanations for observed phenomena. These explanations are always provisional. Instead the "hoax/mistake/delusion" that most shrug it off with, I actually find the "delusion" part less likely.

You also did seem to be using the term "experience" in exactly the same way. You are not the only person to have such experience. The lack of interest in proving bigfoot real is no big deal. It's not as if proponents really have another genuine option.

In future it might be better to leave emotion out of it and simply debate the points relevant to the topic. Like bigfoot, claims, how to verify the veracity of such etc.

a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

You're arrogance is overpowering, similar to body odor and as fun as volleying redundant arguments with you sounds, I'll have to back out.

a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

Oh Cogito – you are a funny guy. Seriously, you must have been laughing to yourself when you passively said don’t take this as “a personal insult” and in the next sentence call first person witness statements “campfire yarns”. Who could be offended by that?
The layers of irony also are worth a chuckle when you imply that all eyewitness accounts are a mistake or hoax (and a few delusional). In my mind I hear you saying “No offence, but I am here to tell you that everyone with an eyewitness experience throughout history has been wrong.” Well, okay then.
Thanks for the smile. Keep up the good work. Cheers!!

originally posted by: tiger_tts
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

Oh Cogito – you are a funny guy. Seriously, you must have been laughing to yourself when you passively said don’t take this as “a personal insult” and in the next sentence call first person witness statements “campfire yarns”. Who could be offended by that?
The layers of irony also are worth a chuckle when you imply that all eyewitness accounts are a mistake or hoax (and a few delusional). In my mind I hear you saying “No offence, but I am here to tell you that everyone with an eyewitness experience throughout history has been wrong.” Well, okay then.
Thanks for the smile. Keep up the good work. Cheers!!

No offense, but 50 years of campfire tales without one single shred of tangible proof makes them campfire tales. Habeus Corpus

originally posted by: tiger_tts
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

Oh Cogito – you are a funny guy. Seriously, you must have been laughing to yourself when you passively said don’t take this as “a personal insult” and in the next sentence call first person witness statements “campfire yarns”. Who could be offended by that?
The layers of irony also are worth a chuckle when you imply that all eyewitness accounts are a mistake or hoax (and a few delusional). In my mind I hear you saying “No offence, but I am here to tell you that everyone with an eyewitness experience throughout history has been wrong.” Well, okay then.
Thanks for the smile. Keep up the good work. Cheers!!

I don't believe these particular claims. I find no reason to and the emotionally based arguments since don't offer any reasons to (they are mostly irrelevant). Though no one can truly know and obviously I could be wrong (it happens frequently), but it is is the prerogative of all who listen to such things, to believe or otherwise. There are those I do find believable (in that they seem to have experienced something), yet regardless of that 100% of bigfoot claims are unverified stories - yes, "campfire yarns" by definition and most reasonable people (even reasonable bigfoot claimants) realise this. If people find it insulting, there are bigfoot forums where anything resembling critique of claims is frowned on and acceptance is guaranteed.

I have some bigfoot "campfire yarns" also. Hence such interest in the topic and regardless of having a different explanation for it all. Never have I required belief, nor found a lack of belief from others regarding such yarns, insulting. I understand it completely and encourage people not to be naive. The reality or otherwise of the subject of bigfoot doesn't hinge on whether people's feelings get hurt when others don't naively accept stories.

The constant veering of the topic to irrelevant ad hominems does little to support any pov.

a reply to: spookysully
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

Spooky I'm at least a tad bit familiar with Cog. And don't mean
to butt in at all. But experience with this member compells me
to advise you. Think real hard about what he is saying, I don't
think he means to insult you in any way. unless you ask for it.
And give this member creedence. Your audience won't be wasted
i promise.

originally posted by: spookysully
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

You're arrogance is overpowering, similar to body odor and as fun as volleying redundant arguments with you sounds, I'll have to back out.

QED.

like I always post....

if ya want to see em....let's go....

I-90 east of Seattle at state hwy 18.....

logging road to the se

back in there is a place with no roads and there's no trails at all because it's too slippery.on the tv map of reported sightings, it's where all the stars are located....
it's not too far to ride a bike or walk....got kicked out for being on a trail Honda.

I promise a group of ten coud get in there ....spread out a little and set cameras....do a predator call then act like you're leaving.....

Absolutely fascinating story! It seems a tad far fetched, but honestly it wouldn't surprise me if it did happen. The fact that there was an open line of communication between humans and bigfoot is pretty exciting too. Either way, it's a really good read.