African-American Statehood

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I had opted out of this thread, and vowed not to make another post here, but @enlightenedservant, I feel, as you have already recognized, this thread is not what it claims to be. You are fighting a losing battle, noticed the reinforcement troops by the way.

Don't waste your time with this ruse. You have made very valid points, but they will be completely ignored, as all the others before yours. It is not about truth. It is about trying to push an evil agenda, and to allow their bigoted rhetoric to continue.

Several ATS members that identified themselves as Black members, have spoken loudly and clearly, against this supposed offer. Yet others continue to want to try to sell them on this perverted idea and even try to pawn it off as a Black agenda. They ignore the voices of the people they claim to want to engage, in a purely Christian manner, of course.

Don't let this insanity continue, let this thread die. It has nothing of value to add to you or ATS.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: enlightenedservant

I had opted out of this thread, and vowed not to make another post here, but @enlightenedservant, I feel, as you have already recognized, this thread is not what it claims to be. You are fighting a losing battle, noticed the reinforcement troops by the way.

Don't waste your time with this ruse. You have made very valid points, but they will be completely ignored, as all the others before yours. It is not about truth. It is about trying to push an evil agenda, and to allow their bigoted rhetoric to continue.

Several ATS members that identified themselves as Black members, have spoken loudly and clearly, against this supposed offer. Yet others continue to want to try to sell them on this perverted idea and even try to pawn it off as a Black agenda. They ignore the voices of the people they claim to want to engage, in a purely Christian manner, of course.

Don't let this insanity continue, let this thread die. It has nothing of value to add to you or ATS.

On one hand, I don't think anyone is pushing an agenda. I think that you (and some other members) have missed the point because of being trained to be offended. There is social commentary in this thread somewhere, in between the arguing of all those who missed the point.

But, like i said in my first post: "Its the dumbest idea i have ever heard". That said, the OP was pretty tongue in cheek with his response to that, leading me to believe that he knows its a dumb proposition (leading me to my conclusion that its social commentary).

Regardless, I bolded the singular sentence from above in your quote that I agree with. Not for any reason other than people who miss the point will make it an impossible discussion on a social issue.

disclaimer: i base the above on comments made in this thread, and my years of participation with the members who have contributed to this thread. Take that for what you will.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: enlightenedservant

I had opted out of this thread, and vowed not to make another post here, but @enlightenedservant, I feel, as you have already recognized, this thread is not what it claims to be. You are fighting a losing battle, noticed the reinforcement troops by the way.

Don't waste your time with this ruse. You have made very valid points, but they will be completely ignored, as all the others before yours. It is not about truth. It is about trying to push an evil agenda, and to allow their bigoted rhetoric to continue.

Several ATS members that identified themselves as Black members, have spoken loudly and clearly, against this supposed offer. Yet others continue to want to try to sell them on this perverted idea and even try to pawn it off as a Black agenda. They ignore the voices of the people they claim to want to engage, in a purely Christian manner, of course.

Don't let this insanity continue, let this thread die. It has nothing of value to add to you or ATS.

Thank you for your kind words. But I do want to make something clear. I'm not responding to these people in order to convince them of anything. I lurked on ATS for 5-8 months before I joined (an estimate). So I usually write my detailed posts in a way where a random reader or lurker can go research my words to figure things out for themselves (since they can't respond to get clarification or to dispute what they read).

Also, I was born & raised in the South so I knew full well what this thread was actually about. People have been telling me, my family, and my relatives to "go home" and "go back to Africa" since I was a child. I also learned that the Devil never sleeps & he never stops. So I'm hoping my posts can break the cycle of willful ignorance about racial issues, even if just for a single reader.

EDIT: Wow, this post sounds like I'm being rude towards you. That's not my intention at all. Hmm, not sure why my posts seem so rude today. Maybe I really am grumpy now. Maybe I need to take a break from this?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

States used to make deal themselves with other countries so yes they could do it again. The stipulation is it cant be doen to harm the US government.

Also If the VATICAN can be considered a country im sure we could have another one in the US dont you? Still you havent mentioned anything about this being VOLUNTARY yet.

Also I asked WHY is it OK for people to SELF SEGREGATE THEMSELVES like they do? If they want equality shoudnt they try to intentionally mix with everyone else? Otherwise eventually it breaks down into a situation in LA with th e bloods and cryps and they for sure self segregate into colors worn even though they are the same ethnicity.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: enlightenedservant

States used to make deal themselves with other countries so yes they could do it again. The stipulation is it cant be doen to harm the US government.

Also If the VATICAN can be considered a country im sure we could have another one in the US dont you? Still you havent mentioned anything about this being VOLUNTARY yet.

Also I asked WHY is it OK for people to SELF SEGREGATE THEMSELVES like they do? If they want equality shoudnt they try to intentionally mix with everyone else? Otherwise eventually it breaks down into a situation in LA with th e bloods and cryps and they for sure self segregate into colors worn even though they are the same ethnicity.

Wrong. US States can not do any of those things. That would be like saying that Ohio can make a deal to let France have a military base on Ohio territory. Or Mississippi can apply to become a member of BRICS. Or that North Dakota can reject the US Dollar in exchange for officially adopting the British Pound.

The Vatican is a separate country because it went through the procedures to become a separate country. Just like Lesotho, which is completely surrounded by South Africa. Natural borders have nothing to do with what makes a country. Otherwise Hawaii & Alaska wouldn't be parts of the United States. US States can't officially become separate countries without officially seceding from the United States first.

You're wrong in asserting that people are "self segregating" themselves. You're literally asking why people hang around family members. Are you "self segregating" when you go out to dinner with your family? Because Chinatowns, Little Italy's and the such don't stop other people from coming there. And any white person can go move to a black majority neighborhood if they choose to. So how is that "self segregating"?

And who cares if this thread's dumb idea is voluntary? I already addressed that in my previous posts. If African Americans wanted to voluntarily renounce our citizenships and leave the US, we could do that right now. There are plenty of "black" majority countries in the world right now where we could apply for citizenship. Why is that concept so hard for you to understand?

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: enlightenedservant

States used to make deal themselves with other countries so yes they could do it again. The stipulation is it cant be doen to harm the US government.

Also If the VATICAN can be considered a country im sure we could have another one in the US dont you? Still you havent mentioned anything about this being VOLUNTARY yet.

Also I asked WHY is it OK for people to SELF SEGREGATE THEMSELVES like they do? If they want equality shoudnt they try to intentionally mix with everyone else? Otherwise eventually it breaks down into a situation in LA with th e bloods and cryps and they for sure self segregate into colors worn even though they are the same ethnicity.

Wrong. US States can not do any of those things. That would be like saying that Ohio can make a deal to let France have a military base on Ohio territory. Or Mississippi can apply to become a member of BRICS. Or that North Dakota can reject the US Dollar in exchange for officially adopting the British Pound.

The Vatican is a separate country because it went through the procedures to become a separate country. Just like Lesotho, which is completely surrounded by South Africa. Natural borders have nothing to do with what makes a country. Otherwise Hawaii & Alaska wouldn't be parts of the United States. US States can't officially become separate countries without officially seceding from the United States first.

You're wrong in asserting that people are "self segregating" themselves. You're literally asking why people hang around family members. Are you "self segregating" when you go out to dinner with your family? Because Chinatowns, Little Italy's and the such don't stop other people from coming there. And any white person can go move to a black majority neighborhood if they choose to. So how is that "self segregating"?

And who cares if this thread's dumb idea is voluntary? I already addressed that in my previous posts. If African Americans wanted to voluntarily renounce our citizenships and leave the US, we could do that right now. There are plenty of "black" majority countries in the world right now where we could apply for citizenship. Why is that concept so hard for you to understand?

Ever hear of DUAL CITIZENSHIP? Think instead of feeling k? Also im not saying why people hang arounf family members. Im talking about entire neighboorhoods liek CHINATOWN,Little havana and others. LIKE MINDED PEOPLE AND SIMILIAR APPEARING PEOPLE CONGREGATING TOGETHER INSTEAD OF MIXING IT UP WITH OTHERS. That IS segregating themselves. I also never said a whit eperson coudnt move into those "hoods" i even said there was exceptions earlier but ya missed it apparently.

(caps for emphasis only i dont use them to signify yelling liek some)

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: enlightenedservant

States used to make deal themselves with other countries so yes they could do it again. The stipulation is it cant be doen to harm the US government.

Also If the VATICAN can be considered a country im sure we could have another one in the US dont you? Still you havent mentioned anything about this being VOLUNTARY yet.

Also I asked WHY is it OK for people to SELF SEGREGATE THEMSELVES like they do? If they want equality shoudnt they try to intentionally mix with everyone else? Otherwise eventually it breaks down into a situation in LA with th e bloods and cryps and they for sure self segregate into colors worn even though they are the same ethnicity.

Wrong. US States can not do any of those things. That would be like saying that Ohio can make a deal to let France have a military base on Ohio territory. Or Mississippi can apply to become a member of BRICS. Or that North Dakota can reject the US Dollar in exchange for officially adopting the British Pound.

The Vatican is a separate country because it went through the procedures to become a separate country. Just like Lesotho, which is completely surrounded by South Africa. Natural borders have nothing to do with what makes a country. Otherwise Hawaii & Alaska wouldn't be parts of the United States. US States can't officially become separate countries without officially seceding from the United States first.

You're wrong in asserting that people are "self segregating" themselves. You're literally asking why people hang around family members. Are you "self segregating" when you go out to dinner with your family? Because Chinatowns, Little Italy's and the such don't stop other people from coming there. And any white person can go move to a black majority neighborhood if they choose to. So how is that "self segregating"?

And who cares if this thread's dumb idea is voluntary? I already addressed that in my previous posts. If African Americans wanted to voluntarily renounce our citizenships and leave the US, we could do that right now. There are plenty of "black" majority countries in the world right now where we could apply for citizenship. Why is that concept so hard for you to understand?

Ever hear of DUAL CITIZENSHIP? Think instead of feeling k? Also im not saying why people hang arounf family members. Im talking about entire neighboorhoods liek CHINATOWN,Little havana and others. LIKE MINDED PEOPLE AND SIMILIAR APPEARING PEOPLE CONGREGATING TOGETHER INSTEAD OF MIXING IT UP WITH OTHERS. That IS segregating themselves. I also never said a whit eperson coudnt move into those "hoods" i even said there was exceptions earlier but ya missed it apparently.

(caps for emphasis only i dont use them to signify yelling liek some)

I already addressed that too. It seems like you're not reading my posts so what's the point? Chinatowns, Little Italy's, and the such were usually formed by immigrants during the days of racial segregation. They would help family members come as well. Many were literally started by families hanging around family members & distant relatives, and buying property near those relatives. That's why I asked if you consider it "segregating" when you hang around your family?

Sometimes, those immigrants (or entrepreneurs who saw an opportunity) put stores close by that focused on those demographics. As that neighborhood increases its economic activity, more companies open businesses there to take advantage of the local economic boom. When you combine these 2 points, you get a place like China Town or "Little Pakistan". They're literally districts that cater to specific demographics, not too unlike a district that caters to sports bars, nightclubs, or like "red light" districts. Why are you assuming that the people who own or frequent the businesses there are even from the same demographic? Where are your statistics? Or are you just assuming that only Chinese investors would own a Chinese restaurant & only Italian Americans will eat at Italian restaurants?

And dual citizenship has nothing to do with this. It's literally being a citizen of 2 separate countries. Each country is still a separate country with separate currencies, alliances.... Actually, I just realized that you're trolling me. (-facepalm-) Nevermind. I've made my point on this topic. I'm wasting my time now.

I appreciate your thoughts regarding the Back to Africa movements. I tried to keep my post brief, and obviously it was too brief.

Five years ago I would have thought that a revival of Marcus Garvey's ideas would be impossible. But we live in an entirely different and constantly changing world. I had a niece come home from college all excited about 'going home to Africa' and 'now is the time to leave a country that doesn't want us'. My niece's mother, my sister-in-law in the USA, remembered the way the Back to Africa idea flashed large in the 1960's, but she was stunned. She would be one to say, "We built this nation. We aren't going anywhere." And now her baby girl was sounding like Marcus Garvey.

My sense is that a new more practical presentation of the Back to Africa meme is actually growing in some quarters, and if at some point an individual like Minister Farrakhan decided that the time had come for the Nation of Islam to leave the USA that could be the catalyst for a larger movement out of the USA to Africa. All of that is a bunch of "if this" and "if that" I know, but ideas move in cycles. Some are short, and some take a hundred years to find their right time. As things devolve in the USA, I think we are nearer that 'right time' for a new vision (similar yet different from Marcus Garvey) to evolve.

a reply to: Kapriti

I have nothing more to offer than this:



I have the album on vinyl and it is excellent.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: StallionDuck

And of course, you brought up the Palestinians. You know that no matter where the blacks were settled, if their own state wasn't a rousing success, they would pretty soon blame the rest of the country for it for some reason or other.

At this point, I think this is a problem that will never go away.

Why wouldn't I? It's pretty much the same thing. The same question can be posed in different ways. Just replace the black race with any other race in the question and there you have it. So, people against one can't be against another and so forth and so on.. because they're the same!