Senate vote to defund Planned Parenthood fails

originally posted by: Kali74
Per usual the GOP will hold it's breath and stomp its feet til they get what they want. Here we go again...

Well, per the Constitution, the Congress controls how and how much money the government spends, so if they approve defunding through the budget, it would be our president who would be holding his breath and stomping his feet until he gets what he wants.

But hey, keep feeding the lie that the body that controls budget and spending is the one holding it hostage--even when it's their job to control it and not give the president everything he wants. The reality is, it's the guy holding the veto pen that continues to hold things hostage until he gets what he wants. It's not the congress' job to kowtow to Obama's every whim and desire, even if you pretend that it is.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Sremmos80

You'd think they'd learn from the soaring disapproval last two times. Then again learning is bad in their culture.

Learning means you need to PROGRESS your knowledge, and we all know how conservatives feel about progressives.

a reply to: dawnstar

And they'll do it while holding a clipboard. To make it look, you know, official.

a reply to: SlapMonkey
But then wouldn't the SCOTUS step in and make the FINAL final decision no matter what repub/dems say?

a reply to: SlapMonkey

But we aren't talking about the President, we are talking about the people. The majority want PP left alone.

a reply to: rollanotherone

No. Congress isn't Constitutionally required to fund any one particular program. This is out of the domain of SCOTUS.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: SlapMonkey

But we aren't talking about the President, we are talking about the people. The majority want PP left alone.

The majority of the people, represented by Congress want PP defunded.

The representatives in Congress presently represent the majority of the population.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I swear some of the # you come up with... because progressing knowledge and being progressive towards socialistic and communistic govt.. are EXACTLY the same thing...lol

Jaden

originally posted by: rollanotherone
a reply to: SlapMonkey
But then wouldn't the SCOTUS step in and make the FINAL final decision no matter what repub/dems say?

That's not what the Supreme Court does.

a reply to: Kali74

Well, while your assertion may be technically correct according to this Monmouth University poll, it isn't by much of a margin, and the momentum is in favor of defunding PP and in unfavorable opinions of the company. From the poll:

About 4-in-10 (39%) Americans support cutting off federal funding for Planned Parenthood, while 49% oppose this. Among registered voters, the gap is narrower – 42% support defunding and 47% do not. The poll was conducted before the U.S. Senate unsuccessfully attempted to pass a bill to defund Planned Parenthood on Monday. Support for defunding Planned Parenthood among registered voters has increased from the 31% who backed this cut in the February 2012 Quinnipiac poll although it is similar to the 43% result recorded in 2011. A large majority of Republicans (66%) support defunding while a large majority of Democrats (68%) oppose it. More independents oppose (50%) rather than support (36%)
cutting off federal support for Planned Parenthood.

Of course, ignorance by Democrats and Independents may play a big role in this:

Nearly half of the public has seen or heard news about recently released videos that show Planned Parenthood employees discussing the sale of aborted fetal tissue. This includes 27% who have seen a lot about this and 21% who have seen a little. Most (53%) have not heard about these videos. Republicans (42%) are more likely than independents (26%) or Democrats (18%) to have seen a lot about this, while Democrats (62%) and independents (53%) are much more likely than Republicans (35%) to have heard nothing at all about these videos.

So, while citing the point that there is a polled majority of Americans who don't support defunding PP, it's pretty disappointing that a majority of those polled haven't even seen or heard about the most recent videos concerning PP's practices of selling fetal tissue. And a large majority of Democrats an more likely to have heard NOTHING about these videos. That amazes me, to be honest.

I can accept opinions if they're based on some sort of knowledge, but when the evidence points to ignorance-based opinions, I find that to be untrustworthy data. Basically, what I'm saying is that your claim of a majority being against defunding PP shouldn't sway any intelligent human being into believing that's the true voice of the informed.

Just another indication of the apathy infecting America, if you ask me (which I know you didn't).

originally posted by: rollanotherone
a reply to: SlapMonkey
But then wouldn't the SCOTUS step in and make the FINAL final decision no matter what repub/dems say?

As others have noted, the SCOTUS has zero to do with budget determination. Why would you even think that?

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: SlapMonkey

But we aren't talking about the President, we are talking about the people. The majority want PP left alone.

The majority of the people, represented by Congress want PP defunded.

The representatives in Congress presently represent the majority of the population.

According to the vote the majority doesn't want it defunded.

a reply to: buster2010

Actually, the majority in the Senate did vote in favor, it just wasn't enough to be "filibuster-proof."

And really, the senators aren't there to represent the people, the representative in the House are.

a reply to: SlapMonkey
As it clearly shows in the article you posted the majority is against defunding PP. Even though they resorted to using the highly edited BS videos to try and get people to vote the other way.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: SlapMonkey

But we aren't talking about the President, we are talking about the people. The majority want PP left alone.

The majority of the people, represented by Congress want PP defunded.

The representatives in Congress presently represent the majority of the population.

According to the vote the majority doesn't want it defunded.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: buster2010

Actually, the majority in the Senate did vote in favor, it just wasn't enough to be "filibuster-proof."

And really, the senators aren't there to represent the people, the representative in the House are.

No the majority in the Senate is 60 and they did not get that. The Senate also represents the people if they are elected by the people they represent the people.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: buster2010

Actually, the majority in the Senate did vote in favor, it just wasn't enough to be "filibuster-proof."

And really, the senators aren't there to represent the people, the representative in the House are.

No the majority in the Senate is 60 and they did not get that. The Senate also represents the people if they are elected by the people they represent the people.

53/100 is a slight majority.

Democracy in action.



But rules are rules.

a reply to: buster2010

*sigh* That's only if you want a filibuster-proof majority that will end debate in the Senate. Nothing in the constitution says that you need a 3/5ths majority in order to pass a bill. Just because our divided politicians consider 60 to be the magic number or they give up doesn't mean that number is the constitutional majority needed to pass a bill.

Also, you're wrong about the role of the Senate--it is there as a check to the House, and is there to represent the interest of the states, not the individuals. Let's let the good ol' Encyclopedia Britannica help us out, here:

The role of the Senate was conceived by the Founding Fathers as a check on the popularly elected House of Representatives. Thus, each state, regardless of size or population, is equally represented.

Even though since 1913 the election of senators is done by the people and no longer by state legislatures, their role in being a duality of representation for individual states has not changed.

So, basically, the Senate is there to represent the state and give it a voice after the people are given their voice in the House of Representatives, and if the people (representatives) and the states (senators) can come together on a bill, it gets sent up to the president (the representative of the nation) for approval/disapproval.

To be honest, you really could not have been more incorrect in your response.

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: SlapMonkey
As it clearly shows in the article you posted the majority is against defunding PP. Even though they resorted to using the highly edited BS videos to try and get people to vote the other way.

Did you even look at the link to the study (not an "article)? 53% of the people who responded didn't even know about the videos, and those who did went along expected party-line outrage anyhow. I never denied that a majority is against defunding it, but if you actually look at the numbers and the data and interpret some of the points made, you'll realize that this majority is shrinking quickly.

Both parties better be careful how they incorporate this into their election messages next year...it could help or hinder both parties, depending on the fickleness of the voter.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Also, you're wrong about the role of the Senate--it is there as a check to the House, and is there to represent the interest of the states, not the individuals.

Who makes up the state? The people. Btw your link was useless in backing up your statement that they do not represent the people. Now let's see what a expert on the government actually says about it.
Why We Have a House and Senate

The Founders intended that the House be seen as more closely representing the will of the people than the Senate. To this end, they provided that members of the House - U.S. Representatives - be elected by and represent limited groups of citizens living in small geographically defined districts within each state. Senators, on the other hand, are elected by and represent all voters of their state. When the House considers a bill, individual members tend to base their votes primarily on how the bill might impact the people of their local district, while Senators tend to consider how the bill would impact the nation as a whole. This is just as the Founders intended.

Senators represent all the people of their state Representatives only represent the people of their district.