Incarcerating juvenile offenders bad and now not incarcerating them is bad.

Probation now a problem

Instead of sending him to juvenile hall, a judge put him on probation, which can last until age 21. His court orders included nearly two-dozen conditions he had to follow, says Kate Weisburd, his attorney.

"Attend classes on time and regularly," she read. "Be of good behavior and perform well ... be of good citizenship and good conduct."

Weisburd, who co-directs a youth justice program at the East Bay Community Law Center in Berkeley, says that while adults on probation mostly have to avoid committing a new crime, kids on probation have to abide by these sometimes subjective requirements — or be locked up.

The 15th order, "obey parents and guardians," was one that tripped up the teen who took the shoes, moving him into juvenile hall. And the electronic monitor on his ankle sent him to the hall multiple times.

Okay...so it seems that instead of incarcerating juvenile offenders, which advocates called cruel and lead to a life of crime, they started diverting large numbers of delinquents into probation programs as an alternative to incarceration.

Okay, fair enough.

However, now, since there are a lot of rules to probation and apparently the offenders cannot follow the rules, those same advocates are calling the probation alternative cruel--particularity the monitoring aspect.

Is this a case of being cruel and mean or is it a case of delinquents not wanting to follow the rules of their probation? IMHO, we see a lot of the latter, rather than the former.

I can only speak for the juvenile probation in our area. It is a flipping joke. NOT ONE TIME, did the probation officer check up on my son, unexpectedly, like he was supposed to. He never made him attend the anger management counseling, I asked the judge to put in his probation.

Somehow, he made it through his bad time, despite the joke of probation.

Honestly, if they would treat theses kids, like with counseling and therapy while they were locked up, instead of just locking them up and doing nothing for them, they might have a better success rate.

Sorry if I seem angry. Very sore subject for me. Kids have no consequences these days, nor help.

originally posted by: chiefsmom
I can only speak for the juvenile probation in our area. It is a flipping joke. NOT ONE TIME, did the probation officer check up on my son, unexpectedly, like he was supposed to. He never made him attend the anger management counseling, I asked the judge to put in his probation.

Somehow, he made it through his bad time, despite the joke of probation.

I'm glad your son got through that and is now a better person.


Sometimes, what is done out of compassion can be actually detrimental to the person. Obviously, in the cases highlighted in the article, the offenders don't seem to be able to follow the rules which seems to indicate that they are not being rehabilitated.

Yeah, it is set up as a scam by design.

It is as bad as some big corporations sitting around a table trying to decide how to hook people.

They can see the math involved. They know recidivism rates to re-offend. They take this bet and bank off of it.
Fees for probation, fees for violations, fees for classes..... String out the person who is irresponsible with multiple hoops that will be tough to commit to and watch the money roll into the court system.

It is a shame the criminal justice system has turned into a criminal extortion racket in this country.

My lil bro got put on probation as a teeny bopper for a really dumb reason. Then he ran away from home to our mothers house. Except she lived out of state. Violation of Probation and, he went to a group home. As a child I thought it was stupid, as a Mom I feel its stupid. My lil bro has issues and when our friends and I reminisce about it, that's where we point the finger.

originally posted by: IanFleming
Is this a case of being cruel and mean or is it a case of delinquents not wanting to follow the rules of their probation? IMHO, we see a lot of the latter, rather than the former.

THis is a case of giving unclear instructions and expecting a clear understanding.

Kids don't end up on probation because they are strong in the cognition department, have impulse control, and command an overwhelming insight into social situations. So giving a stipulation of "Be a good boy" is more suitable for a dog, not a child.

As a first time petty juvenile offender, he shouldn't have even been put on probation in the first place. I mean, he stole two pairs of shoes, so what!?!

Kids do stupid things and punishing them with a whole list of conditions, then expecting them to stick to them is just as stupid. He should have been let off with a simple warning as a first offence.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
As a first time petty juvenile offender, he shouldn't have even been put on probation in the first place. I mean, he stole two pairs of shoes, so what!?!

Kids do stupid things and punishing them with a whole list of conditions, then expecting them to stick to them is just as stupid. He should have been let off with a simple warning as a first offence.

So the appropriate punishment for theft should be...?

a reply to: IanFleming

Being arrested and the scare of facing a magistrate... For a first offence.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

100% correct. We should not hold people responsible for their actions.

Petty theft? Meh, you're good, carry on!

Allrighty, I'm off to throat punch myself...

a reply to: KawRider9

I got caught breaking into cars when I was 15, the police let me off with a warning... Then I got caught two weeks later doing the same thing, lol.

Got arrested, charged and had to face the magistrate... he let me off with a warning. So I got a job and never broke into another car ever again...

What point is there in destroying someones entire life, if a simple warning will suffice in deterring the offender?... or in this case, the immature child.

a reply to: IanFleming

90 day deferred adjudication, fines in the $200 range, and a required class

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: IanFleming

90 day deferred adjudication, fines in the $200 range, and a required class

PBJ for first time offense? I could swing with that. However, they still would have to follow the rules and commit no crimes during that 90 days and therein seems to be the problem--not being able to follow the rules.

a reply to: IanFleming

Simple: don't break the law.

Seems to be a clear cut, well defined hurdle point. None of that ambiguous, "Be nice" nonsense.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: IanFleming

Simple: don't break the law.

Seems to be a clear cut, well defined hurdle point. None of that ambiguous, "Be nice" nonsense.

The lefties say it's OK to do what ever you want.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: IanFleming

Simple: don't break the law.

Seems to be a clear cut, well defined hurdle point. None of that ambiguous, "Be nice" nonsense.

Yeah, but teenagers don't always see life in such a black & white manner and they like to test the rules.

It's like a puppy who has an overwhelming urge to chew your shoes up. It's very frustrating, but it doesn't necessarily mean there going to be misbehaved once fully grown.

Unless you teach them about the leftish push, if you don't, then you can't complain if they chew on your shoes.

a reply to: KZrkiller

You are a complete fool. The lefties think no such thing. In fact, America is the prison capital of the world so actually i think every American (besides the elite) know that if you do whatever you will likely be a prisoner.

Stop with your partisan BS. And i have to say I agree with Sub. Seriously some of you are too righteous. For a first time offense of petty theft? You are damn right it should only be an arrest, seeing a judge, and a warning.
I was on Juvenile probabtion at one time. Guidelines are not hard to follow. UA's do NOT actually requiring being sober so...

That being said i have never been given JUST warning. I have been cuffed and charges Placed for the tiniest of things. I did not know a warning from police even existed.

Strike that. I once got a warning from a cop for curfew. However he searched me first and forced me into the back of his car with cuffs and no charges so he could drive me to my moms house for the warning. I suppose technically there is a couple violations there on the cops part.

Things sure have changed. I was on probation at the age of 15 for 3 months for underage drinking. That was about 40 years ago.
For the 3 months, I spent time with my probation officer every Saturday for the afternoon.
We went shopping, out to lunches, hiking, explored parks, boat docks, whatever we could figure out yo do for 3 or 4 hours.
I guess the idea was rehabilitation. I still drank back then, among other stuff, but it was actually a fun probation. It was nice to have someone who cared show up and spend time with me.