"Cecil" the Lion Hunted and Killed

a reply to: stargatetravels

Where, oh where, am I defending him?

I think he's an utter dirtball. OK? Whatever wrong he did, it needs jurisprudence, not a lynching. What part of that are you having problems with?

a reply to: seagull

I didn't say you defended him, I said don't make excuses.
You said he may have been mislead and I said what even when they removed the lions tag and smashed it?
I mean come on, he knew what he was doing - as another member pointed out he's been in trouble for this stuff before.
I didn't say you defended him but you are making excuses.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

I see youre having a hard time with context.........

I see you're having a hard time staying on topic. Which is about this guy poaching this lion not Game Hunting in general.

I know what the context is and what you're talking about. I read every page of this thread.

You're shifting the conversation over to game hunting so you can defend it. Why not stick with the topic as it is???

This type of thing happens to be a bad habit of some hunters. It's the "bad apple" excuse that gets used way too much. After so many bad apples keep coming up in the same area of discussion, maybe it's time to address that it's not just a few bad apples that will go away. Maybe it's time to cut down the sick tree that's barring bad fruit.

a reply to: stargatetravels

I'm well aware of the evidence.

However, evidence has been known to be wrong, or point at the wrong guy.

Excuses? Maybe at first when I hadn't read the articles all the way through, and gone off and looked at other sources.

Now? If nothing else, he's an idiot. But... Idiot or not, day in court. It's what we're all supposed to get, right?

a reply to: seagull


And he will get his day - us talking on an internet forum won't impact his case or affect the outcome in any way.
Me 'casting aspersions' and basing my opinion on the fact that the guy is a scumbag with previous means nothing.
You and others saying "aww poor guy, maybe he was lead astray" or "he's a conservationist hero who loves lions and it's obvious he is because he killed this lion" is frankly naive at best and completely disgraceful and ludicrous at worst.
There's some propaganda like posts in this thread.

Not saying yours but still - some posts are staggeringly ignorant.

a reply to: mindseye1609

Magical forest faries

Conservation is a very mature and adult topic of discussion. There's many hard truths we need to remember. FIRST OFF, these animals don't live forever if we don't hunt them. They die a terrible terrible animal death most of the time. Eaten alive by coyotes butthole first doesn't sound like fun and that's a very very common death for many mammals in North America. Freezing to death slowly because they aren't strong enough to make it sounds like fun too huh? A good clean hunter kill is over in seconds. A clean arrow kill is over before the animal even knows its hurt.

Quite possibly the most laughable statement I've ever read on ATS. I don't know when or how I'll die but that doesn't mean I want someone to come round and blow a hole in my skull just to save me from a potentially more horrible death.

Absolutely absurd.

a reply to: Kram09

A bit colorful.. Yes... But absurd? Far from it.

I was trying to point out that nature isn't a Disney movie. Remember timone and pumba? 99% of the time simba eats them butthole first lol. There's no hakuna matata to be had I promise you that.

Wanna know a Male bears favorite thing to eat? Bear cubs! Why? Cause the mom will go back into estrous and he can give her a cub of his own.

Nature is a scary bitch, it'll leave you suffering and give zero EFFs.

originally posted by: mindseye1609
Wanna know a Male bears favorite thing to eat? Bear cubs! Why? Cause the mom will go back into estrous and he can give her a cub of his own.

Nature is a scary bitch, it'll leave you suffering and give zero EFFs.

Funny you should mention that because that is exactly what is going to happen to the 6 cubs now that some poacher shot the protected father of them.

Nature is a bitch, I agree, but sometimes man makes it even worse by his actions too.

a reply to: mOjOm

This type of thing happens to be a bad habit of some hunters. It's the "bad apple" excuse that gets used way too much.

LOL what? I never said anything about a bad apple??? seriously you keep attaching stuff to me that I never said or never addressed? where are you coming up with this random crap?

Happens way too much huh?

So this is something that happens all the time ?

Huh, I dont recall seeing a rash of Trophy Hunters poaching ........

Want to back up that claim with some actual facts or are you just going to keep ranting off random things w out any actual evidence

Question to.......

minds eye 1609 and manbehindthemask

Do you support the American dentist in his actions or not.....?

Simple question.....simple answer please.......

Regards

PDUK

a reply to: seagull

He's an idiot....?

I think you you are if that's all you consider a privileged westerner dentist who thinks it's clever to murder a magnificent creature......

This is a turning point in humanities thinking and for those of you who think it's acceptable (?) to hunt and kill for anything but food and survival......AKA not fecking sport....... YOU are being exposed for the poor morals and ethics and simple lack of humanity and just commonplace decency.....!

Regards

PDUK

a reply to: PurpleDog UK

If he knew it was a poached kill of a improper chosen lion then no I don't support his actions

but if it was a sanctioned by the the conservationists in the area then i support it whole heartedly.

Like I said in my very first post... Many nuances. Trophy hunting is good for conservation.

a reply to: mindseye1609

So in answer to the simple question......

Is that a Yes or No...?

Just to be clear....

Regards
PDUK

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

First link from a Google search.

Africa’s Lions Endangered By Controversial 'Canned' Hunting Industry

The International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) has classified the African lion as “vulnerable.” And while trophy hunting carried out in a number of sub-Saharan African countries is sometimes an important way to provide financial resources for communities and even lion conservation efforts, “there is concern that current management regimes can lead to unsustainable offtakes,” the IUCN noted in its report.

The economics are important. Travel and tourism contributed about 9.5 percent of South Africa’s struggling economy last year and supported 645,000 jobs, according to the World Travel and Tourism Council. Some estimates say revenues from hunting generate $200 million annually in remote areas in Africa.

However, a recent report from Economists at Large, commissioned for the African Lion Coalition, suggests that hunting companies contribute less than 3 percent of their revenue to local communities.

Big game hunting in Africa is economically useless - IUCN

Tourist hunters kill around 105 000 animals per year, including around 640 elephants, 3 800 buffalo, 600 lions and 800 leopards. Such quantities are not necessarily reasonable. It can e noted for example, that killing 600 lions out of a total population of around 25 000 (i.e. 2.4%) is not sustainable. A hunting trip usually lasts from one to three weeks, during which time each hunter kills an average of two to ten animals, depending on the country.

Financial Flows
The annual turnover for big game hunting in Africa is estimated at $US200 million, half of which is generated in South Africa and the rest in the other countries of Sub Saharan Africa. The contribution to the countries' GDP is 0.06% for the 11 main big game hunting countries.

The contribution to national budgets is also low: one percent of the land classified as big game hunting territory contributes 0.006% to the government budget. The contribution of hunting to the national budget is highest in Tanzania, where it is still only 0.3% and uses 26% of the national land area.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Most people will give up all of their morals for some big cash.

a reply to: mindseye1609
I think the fact that the game ranch owner and his guide are being charged by the government says a lot about what has happened.
As far as the hunter himself, its his responsibility to make sure what he is doing is above board. At this point he has nothing to say in his defense, The animal was lured off of a game preserve, at night by dragging a carcass through the bush. That alone should have been a giant red flag, then they tried to destroy the tracking collar, another red flag.
If he was an upstanding hunter, he would have gone straight to authorities to tell them he made a mistake, the fact he didn't shows he knew he had broken the law.
BTW I used to be an avid hunter, I chose to quit hunting as a personal choice, my life or my families life do not depend on hunting for food, at that point hunting is a sport, and I chose to not kill for sport.

staying on topic. Which is about this guy poaching this lion not Game Hunting in general.

whats the point in that, berating some guy you dont know. i think the topic is game hunting, not calling a dentist an asshole

or maybe its hard to argue against logic, easier to call people assholes.

originally posted by: PurpleDog UK
Question to.......

minds eye 1609 and manbehindthemask

Do you support the American dentist in his actions or not.....?

Simple question.....simple answer please.......

Regards

PDUK

No way in hell do i support poaching

a reply to: mOjOm

thats not poaching..........

Thats actual guided hunts........

We can argue semantics on whether you agree with canned hunts or not........

Your claim was "Bad Apple" hunters happened all too often.......

Nice try at deflection tho........

Wheres the Rash of guided hunts going rogue and poaching..........

a reply to: PurpleDog UK

I was pretty clear. Im leaning towards this guy being a poacher and I don't support that at all.

If he was duped into the whole thing then I support him.

To be more clear, the evidence isn't complete, but it's sure not sounding good, he needs to be prosecuted if he poached it.


The overall act of hunting a lion and trophy hunting in general I'm all for it. Il happily kill an animal if I'm licensed by conservationists to do so.