"Cecil" the Lion Hunted and Killed

a reply to: mindseye1609

Mate, i am perplexed! Does your heart not even sink a little when you think of this?

Its Killing an animal for no reason, how can you ever justify that.

Is his life somehow worth less than anyone elses?

a reply to: NerdGoddess

It was rude, I'm way passed my breaking point with this stuff.

I was a vegan for 5 years, i cried my eyes out watching the movie "the cove" I get where the empathy is coming from but it's a very immature way of looking At it. Just leaving animals to their own without predators is a major problem, if we don't kill them something else will, be that disease or another predator (who will like to kill people too) will move in and lay waste to the over abundant food source. It's happened many times with deer and TB in my state. Not enough harvested then TB ravages the herd then your lucky to see a deer for a year or 2. We can stop those up and down cycles with conservation.


Also do you guys know how many animals die each year in the fruit and vegetable farming industry? It's hundreds of millions. Bugs and mice and deer and rabbits and snakes and raccoons and gofers and squirrels and YOU NAME IT gets mowed down in the name of fruits and vegetables..

Even if we went full hemp clothing, tons and tons of something would get killed every harvest... That's just how things work... And it doesn't go to waste, bacteria and fungus gotta eat too

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

The lion didnt get what he wanted... i find it interesting you ignore that fact, or do the lions wishes not matter.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Yes lets forget that the meat feeds hungry people in the area and helps maintain a good breeding population...

You obviously missed the part where I said I'm ANTI HUNTING FOR SPORT.
I am not anti hunting for food , this guy and others like him do it for fun , not to eat , not to wear the skin.
You kill the lion you eat the lion.

You missed the part where the meat feeds people.............I really dont see how you can keep looking over that just to maintain your emotional response

originally posted by: HumanPLC
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

The lion didnt get what he wanted... i find it interesting you ignore that fact, or do the lions wishes not matter.

That has to be the weakest rebutal that ive ever heard.......

Read the article, he had to be removed.........

a reply to: HumanPLC

See that's where you need to make a distinction...

Is that lion going to improve this planet at all? Is that lion going to try and progress science and space tech and whatever?

If humans were living to their full potential working hard towards good goals then it's logical that we should seek a source of protein and vitamins and minerals all condensed into a nice little package.. And not feel bad about killing an animal that does NOTHING when we are working towards something.

People hate themself and their goals and their own lives so much that they don't feel they are worth meat from an animal?

What about the guys curing cancer? Are they allowed to eat meat? If so how should they get it?

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

From the OP's article

Zimbabwe National Parks confirmed the charges. “In this case, both the professional hunter and land owner had no permit or quota to justify the offtake of the lion and therefore are liable for the illegal hunt,

He was illegaly hunted! It seems that it was you that did not read the article my friend

Can you now answer the points in my other reply.

a reply to: HumanPLC

And someone will be prosecuted heavily, but the general act of trophy hunting when done right is not a bad thing.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

You missed the part where the meat feeds people

You'd think that as Lions are an endangered species they'd perhaps feed people on something more plentiful.
How many people does a Lion feed ? , surely a Lion in the wild is better than a Lion in the stomach.

originally posted by: mindseye1609
First off, nothing is certain, when I speak on things I'm speaking on the way it works out the majority of the time. Sure there's bad people that poach and hunt for bad reasons and those are bad people, that minority isn't who I'm speaking on.


Ok let's start with the sport hunting vs meat hunting.

Not always but a vast majority of the time these "sport" hunting events take place in areas of Africa that preserve the animals ONLY FOR HUNTING. The $$$ value of the animal being hunted has driven many animals back from the brink of extinction. None of this "save the whales" nonsense. If it's worth money for dentists to come from Minnesota to shoot a lion, you better believe there will ALWAYS be lions to shoot, how's that for conservation.


The meat

Many times during these sport hunts the meat is all eaten by a local tribe. The trophy hunter takes his trophy and pays hansomly for it and the meat gets put to use by people who need it, no one is wasting a pile of food in Africa that's for sure.


Culling older males

Usually it's a local guide who lives nearby who's picked out the older males past breeding age to be culled. In the example of the black rhino recently that was killed, the older unable to breed male had just recently killed a male that was in breeding prime and because of that a large area of black rhinos is now in major danger, if someone would of culled the orny old bastard sooner, black rhinos would be much better off.


Magical forest faries

Conservation is a very mature and adult topic of discussion. There's many hard truths we need to remember. FIRST OFF, these animals don't live forever if we don't hunt them. They die a terrible terrible animal death most of the time. Eaten alive by coyotes butthole first doesn't sound like fun and that's a very very common death for many mammals in North America. Freezing to death slowly because they aren't strong enough to make it sounds like fun too huh? A good clean hunter kill is over in seconds. A clean arrow kill is over before the animal even knows its hurt.


$$$$ is good for animals.

This dentist and all his moneyz.... Not my favorite kind of people, I know a guy personally who's paid millions all over the world to hunt everything you can imagine and I have ZERO respect for him. He wouldn't last 1 day hunting with me crawling through the swamps looking for them deer that have never seen a person.... No his idea of hunting is catered breakfast and guides carrying your gun for you... Do I fight against him? Nope, his millions have gone to improve the environment 1000 fold more then anything I could of ever done, as long as he's making good kills and not being a bane on the environment I'm thankful for him and every other richy rich hunter.

Just "not killing" these animals won't save them, biologists and conservationists working with millions and millions in funds from hunting licenses will!

Good points all. The savanna is not a Walt Disney movie. One cannot simply legislate hunting away. One must give the local people incentive to keep and protect these animals.

Elephants were considered a nuisance because they break things and devour crops and were routinely hunted by villages and poachers were given a wink and a nod if not outright helped.

Under programmes like these, villages have incentive to protect the herd with a few, controlled, yet profitable culls.

a reply to: mindseye1609

Are you sure a lion does nothing, thats a very single minded view.

Is that lion going to improve this planet at all?

Are you seriosly saying humans are improving the planet??? As far as im aware its been widley acknowledged that we have been destroying it.

a reply to: mindseye1609

Where exactly would Jericho of found a pride with a dominant male around? He would of been kicked out to become a nomadic male and have to fight another male for his pride somewhere else or he would of sat back not making Cubs til Cecil dies and then fights for the loosed females.

did you not see this in the quote i posted.

Note that a lion may switch lifestyles; nomads may become residents and vice versa. Males, as a rule, live at least some portion of their lives as nomads, and some are never able to join another pride.

they more would than likely challenge a old male in a pride and win, driving him off into the bush. then the nomads rule the pride. maybe they found nomadic lioness and started a pride, there's more than one why to be part of a pride.

I'd be willing to be he was under the impression that it was all on the up and up.

then you would lose. he admitted to luring the lion out of the park. this dentist has been under scrutiny for other kills, and he has used this guide outfit before before.
from the OP

In 2009, the New York Times interviewed the Minnesota dentist Walter J Palmer, about his slaying of an elk that was touted as a kill for the archery record books. Palmer had paid $45,000 at auction to take part in the hunt, with the proceeds used to help fund the elk habitat. The article noted that at the time of the hunt Palmer was on probation for lying to authorities over the exact location where he had killed a black bear in northern Wisconsin in 2006.
A 2008 Flickr photo album by Trophy Hunt America and Porcupine Creek Outfitters, a company that leads hunting expeditions, shows Walter Palmer posing next to a variety of slain animals, including a wood bison and a lion. In another online photo Palmer and his bow and arrow sit next to a slain rhino, the caption stating that the photo was taken in South Africa.

he knew damn well what they were doing. plus how do you account for the gps, wouldn't you think that if he was on the up and up he would have said something to the park rangers instead of concealing what he did.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

You missed the part where the meat feeds people

You'd think that as Lions are an endangered species they'd perhaps feed people on something more plentiful.
How many people does a Lion feed ? , surely a Lion in the wild is better than a Lion in the stomach.

It depends. Did the lion in the wild kill your only milk cow and now you have no milk for your kids?

Competition is nature.

a reply to: HumanPLC

That's why I said "if" we were all living to our potential. People feel all sorts of salty at people right now...

And remembers it's a very small percentage of people that have done most of the ravaging of the planet. I recycle, I compost, I grow lots of my own vegetables, I get eggs from a good place, and I'm FAR from the most conscious person I know. Many people are busting there behinds for this planet. Just because a handful polite the planet or can't pull themselves out of the bars or off Facebook/Xbox long enough to do something positive doesn't mean you gotta hate everyone, once again generalizations.

The world is a big mature complicated place that will gladly turn on without us, we need to truly be careful and intelligent about how we proceed and being all "save the whales" is not going to help our future at all.

a reply to: mindseye1609

The world is a big mature complicated place

Ohhhhhhh, thats where ive been going wrong all these years... Seriously though, dont you think that sounds just a tadge patronising.

And remembers it's a very small percentage of people that have done most of the ravaging of the planet.

Its not you know

being all "save the whales" is not going to help our future at all.

Can you explain why not?

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

So what they just live their lives out and then turn into peach blossom petals like master uguay?(Kung fu panda rocks)

No they get their butthole eaten out while their alive by hyenas.

Also I don't know anything about his probation, I've never heard of anyone in trouble for what he was in trouble for and I can't even fathom how they could of proved/prosecuted that unless this dude is just the most unlucky evil hunter ever and keeps shooting things with gps collars lol.

im not disagreeing that this one case doesn't need to be looked at closer but once again trophy hunting in general is a good thing for African animals. This guy could be total scum, and if he is and this was the plan the whole time, he will be punished. But if he was just along for the ride and stumbled into this mess, give the guy a break.

Either way, trophy hunting IN GENERAL is a positive for the populations of African animals.

a reply to: HumanPLC

Because the world would revert to its old ways of mass extinctions and epidemics. Food sources get out of control and predators go nuts and whipe them out. The world is a very inballanced and out of control place, we ARE dreaming if we think we can "control" nature but we can at least try to guide it in a positive direction and allowing animals to go unchecked is not positive.

Lets leave antelopes unchecked... People would be whiped out of Africa in no time. There would be no vegetation and giant meat eating predators EVERYWHERE LOL that's not a good idea.

And we are dreaming if we think we can even predict the outcomes, a single alien species could wipe out an entire Eco system.

There's 2 choices really, go back to living like monkeys with a life expectancy of 20 years OR we sack up and be mature and work towards a positive goal. Like a Dyson sphere for example. Let's build one of those, then we can feel good about eating meat.

a reply to: mindseye1609

The world is a very imbalaced place primarily because of the behaviour of the human species.....
Take for example the shooting of the wolf from Yellowstone........ didn't take long for things to fall 'out of balance' there.....

You see 'MindsEye1609'.....this isn't the point here is it....!

The point here is the self appointed righteousness of a rich cosmetic dentist (a guy who puts peroxide in the mouths of some over bloated yanks who throw money at him for it) who then feels that life is a bit boring so ''i'll go and complete a list of shooting big scary animals'........... it's just WRONG any which way you look at it......

for food and survival...yep, i can agree with it BUT for sport and trophies............ I really wish him and those who support this view the VERY worst..i really do..!

PDUK

a reply to: PurpleDog UK

Those animals would of all been whiped out by the locals if dentists from Minnesota didn't get bored tho... What then?

And the Yellowstone wolf is a great example of how we have learned over the years. The Yellowstone wolf was whiped out in the late 1800's if I'm not mistaken correct? We know a lot more now.

The Yellowstone wolf is what would happen to the lions of Africa if their wasn't a value on them. The locals would fear for their lives and their cows and they would whipe them out.

A better example would of been the buffalo, that's an example of full blown evil commercial style hunting and NON conservation. And your gonna be hard pressed to find a hunter that thinks that wiping out of the buffalo was a good thing. We aren't stupidly out here trying to hunt ourselves out of prey, we want to do what's best for the herd just as much as a vegan does. Hell probably more because we get something from the animals besides a sense of superiority over others.

This man is pure scum and a serial murderer.
He has killed so many beautiful animals and not because he's hungry or his family are hungry or he needs clothing, but because he likes killing stuff.
He paid $50k to do it - FIFTY LARGE for God's sake.

Injured the animal with a bow and it didn't die and then a day or two later caught up to it and shot it with a gun.
This man and others like him - big game hunters - are f'ing sick in the head.
I have all this money to spend,I'm a professional and have lots of free time and vacations hmmmm what shall I do, oh I know, I'll go and brutally slaughter beautiful animals, why not huh?

I know this goes on all the time, I'm not naive but this really Pissed me off - the smug look on this sickos face, the whole 'big game hunting' thing, it's just sick and has no place in the 21st century.
Why is this still allowed, why do people feel the need or desire to do it?

I honestly cannot fathom the brutal slaughter of majestic, stunning wild animals who are roaming the plains freely, minding their own God damn business, and some rich, white prick comes and snuffs out their existence - FOR NO REASON!!!

ARRRGGHHHH