My Body, My Organs: If Planned Parenthood Can Sell Body Parts, Why Can’t I?

originally posted by: grandmakdw
So then you feel it is ok for a person to sell their organs, or the organs of their deceased relatives, if they wish and it should not be illegal?

Did I say ANYTHING about selling organs? No, I did not.

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

So just a hypothetical. Let's say someone murders a pregnant woman. Should he be charged with two murders?

IMO? No.

I think too often one side forgets that the other side is trying to be just as moral, but has a different frame of reference.

I think, all too often, people forget that what goes on in my body is REALLY not their business. It IS a moral AND personal decision and shouldn't be made by the government or the public.

I would never have an abortion. But by the same token, I would never presume to tell any other woman what to do with her body. I don't understand how people think they should have a say...

originally posted by: concerned190
If women choose to have an abortion because it's their body their roghts, why can't I keep my damn seat belt off.

Because the body that used to be you once it smashes through the front windshield during an accident might damage a road sign.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: grandmakdw
So then you feel it is ok for a person to sell their organs, or the organs of their deceased relatives, if they wish and it should not be illegal?

Did I say ANYTHING about selling organs? No, I did not.

You say a person should have full control over their body
and be free to do as they wish with their body tissue,
which is how you define a fetus, a piece of unwanted body tissue.

Therefore, to be consistant,
one must also feel that anyone can sell their body parts or tissue
because it is their body and they can do as they wish with
their body tissue and it is no one else's business.

Both are simply body tissue that one desires for personal
reasons to have removed. The reasons should be no one
else's business by your logic. Therefore, whatever the person
chooses to do with that tissue, sell or donate, or whatever
is between the person and their doctor. If the tissue
removal ends a life, that is still a personal choice of the
person having the tissue removed, between them and
their physician, regardless of if it causes death or not.

If this is consistent with how you believe, then you
are being consistent with your logic.
If you disagree and say the two are not the same
then I question the consistency of your logic
regarding the removal of fetal tissue, and fetal
death and the personal choice of tissue removal
for whatever reason and the death of the person
from whom it is being removed, if it is their personal
choice and if no one is telling them what they may or
may not do with their body or the tissue within.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Or go through someones front room window and kill their dog True story happened when I was a kid to a family in the place I grew up.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Or go through someones front room window and kill their dog True story happened when I was a kid to a family in the place I grew up.

That's a hell of a way to interrupt a family dinner.

The New York Times put out an article debunking the "baby parts " video. They edited totally unrelated questions togather to create what they wanted for their agenda.


If memory serves, every single okeef video has turned out to be a lie. He is scum willing to lie to push rightwing propaganda.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I know grandmakdw, I know. But, you ought to know by now that if you put something out on ATS that even hints of you being anti-abortion or against anything the left holds near and dear to their hearts, you're going be attacked by the same group of libs who pop up on everyone of these politically charged threads.

I joined ATS back in 2004, back when it truly was a place for discussion about things worth spending time reading about. Now, ATS is nothing more than another website that has been overtaken by libs and progressives, with a mission of not denying ignorance...oh no, but creating thread after thread about hot-button current events issues that they use to bash conservatives and push their own agendas.

I'll make it easy for any of you newbies on here. If you are a conservative or hold traditional values, it doesn't matter what you post, you're going to be wrong and you'll have 5 or 6 posters on you like white on rice telling you that over and over, while they pat themselves on the backs by giving themselves stars and flags.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: grandmakdw
So then you feel it is ok for a person to sell their organs, or the organs of their deceased relatives, if they wish and it should not be illegal?

Did I say ANYTHING about selling organs? No, I did not.

You say a person should have full control over their body
and be free to do as they wish with their body tissue,
which is how you define a fetus, a piece of unwanted body tissue.

Therefore, to be consistant,
one must also feel that anyone can sell their body parts or tissue
because it is their body and they can do as they wish with
their body tissue and it is no one else's business.

Both are simply body tissue that one desires for personal
reasons to have removed. The reasons should be no one
else's business by your logic. Therefore, whatever the person
chooses to do with that tissue, sell or donate, or whatever
is between the person and their doctor. If the tissue
removal ends a life, that is still a personal choice of the
person having the tissue removed, between them and
their physician, regardless of if it causes death or not.

If this is consistent with how you believe, then you
are being consistent with your logic.
If you disagree and say the two are not the same
then I question the consistency of your logic
regarding the removal of fetal tissue, and fetal
death and the personal choice of tissue removal
for whatever reason and the death of the person
from whom it is being removed, if it is their personal
choice and if no one is telling them what they may or
may not do with their body or the tissue within.

I agree. It's sad that hospitals get paid millions for organs but the donor gets dick. Of course we need over-site to help lower the rates of corruption. By why shouldn't the person risking the most be compensated.....espeacially in organ donor situations after death.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: grandmakdw

The payments they accepted was purely for the safe/sterile transport of tissue to another research institution. The tissue itself was donated, the costs were pure administrative.

If that were the case, there would have already been designated costs to cover the labor and equipment. These were negotiations.

a reply to: grandmakdw

1st of all the organs she was 'selling' were actually medical waste that would have been donated to research and the money 'gained' would have been just enough to cover storage and shipping. No profits. All within the constraints of the law.

2nd of all- you are welcome to donate your own organs anytime. In fact, there are people in need of kidneys and lungs and bone marrow that would be eternally grateful to you. And you are more than welcome to put yourself down as an organ donor in the event of your death as well. Who knows, your death could just save someone's life?

As for selling for a profit? No system as such is in place at this time. For aborted fetuses or full grown consenting adults.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
You say a person should have full control over their body
and be free to do as they wish with their body tissue,

I didn't say that bolded part. My logic is fine and I certainly don't need you to tell me what I think.

originally posted by: Entreri06
If memory serves, every single okeef video has turned out to be a lie. He is scum willing to lie to push rightwing propaganda.

Yup! Exactly. "The party of freedom and personal responsibility" is here to tell you what you can and cannot do with your body. It's the hypocrisy of the time. Don't smoke pot, don't have an abortion, don't use contraceptive, don't be gay, don't call yourself a boy when you were born with girl parts, and on and on...

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
oh no, but creating thread after thread about hot-button current events issues that they use to bash conservatives and push their own agendas.

Uh... who created this thread about hot-button current events issues that they use to bash liberals and push their own agenda??? Did you seriously just write that? LOL!

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: grandmakdw

I know grandmakdw, I know. But, you ought to know by now that if you put something out on ATS that even hints of you being anti-abortion or against anything the left holds near and dear to their hearts, you're going be attacked by the same group of libs who pop up on everyone of these politically charged threads.

I joined ATS back in 2004, back when it truly was a place for discussion about things worth spending time reading about. Now, ATS is nothing more than another website that has been overtaken by libs and progressives, with a mission of not denying ignorance...oh no, but creating thread after thread about hot-button current events issues that they use to bash conservatives and push their own agendas.

I'll make it easy for any of you newbies on here. If you are a conservative or hold traditional values, it doesn't matter what you post, you're going to be wrong and you'll have 5 or 6 posters on you like white on rice telling you that over and over, while they pat themselves on the backs by giving themselves stars and flags.

Baloney

Its a discussion board. Abortion is a contentious topic. If you post a thread about abortion, you can expect it to be contentious, and to bring out all those interested in discussing the topic or with an opinion to give on the topic.

There are opinions of every single type here. People who aren't interested in the possibility that they may be disagreed with typically post on blogs, with comments disabled. Thats just not what a discussion board is. And it certainly isn't how one goes about denying ignorance.

Because the ironic thing is: i hear the same thing about those evil conservatives. "ATS is obviously the headquarters of the neoconservatives". LOL

No...ATS is a cross section of the populations present. With most of us not toeing any party lines whatsoever.

I have read that in other countries, the poor sell kidneys. I'm betting the future years will see us doing the same. Also, what about women who sell their eggs? What about men who sell their sperm? Or, can a person still sell their blood? What about big pharms who run tests on humans and pay them for use of their bodies? It's all gray areas. I know of several women who make it their jobs to rent out their wombs and deliver a baby to the tune of about $25000 a year, plus medical. One is on her 3rd child. The other her 4th. These are women who live off the grid and have little outside contact so not to draw attention to themselves. Everything nice and quiet and paid under the table. I have a friend on the kidney list and whom is looking into the underground organ sales because of desperation. Despite what we think, very few people truly have become organ donors and the need is great. The tide will turn and unless the economy gets better, we might be the next nation to follow suit in "private" sales.

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Abortion is between a women and her doctor, not that hard to understand.

*and the father
Easier to understand.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
a reply to: grandmakdw

1st of all the organs she was 'selling' were actually medical waste that would have been donated to research and the money 'gained' would have been just enough to cover storage and shipping. No profits. All within the constraints of the law.

2nd of all- you are welcome to donate your own organs anytime. In fact, there are people in need of kidneys and lungs and bone marrow that would be eternally grateful to you. And you are more than welcome to put yourself down as an organ donor in the event of your death as well. Who knows, your death could just save someone's life?

As for selling for a profit? No system as such is in place at this time. For aborted fetuses or full grown consenting adults.

The latest PP video, see thread regarding it and the video before it
prove that Planned Parenthood IS selling body parts
and there is no set price for expenses, as their would be if it were truly non-profit,
instead both videos show haggling for the "best" price.

I would not my body tissue "sold" without my full consent and knowledge.
Why should not the mother's have to sign a consent form outlining the
body parts that will be "donated"?
i.e. I agree to donate for expenses two kidneys, 2 lungs, one heart....
They are her tissue and it is her body and by selling the tissue
to "donors" they are violating her right to privacy, and violating
the woman's right to control her body and control what happens
to the "tissue" in her body.

If Planned Parenthood can sell body parts for profit,
why can't a fully formed adult use the same
rational as abortion supporters do?
It is their body, their tissue to do with as they
see fit and no one should have a say except
for themselves and their Doctor.
If it ends a life (theirs) so what, it is their
body and their tissue to do with as they choose.

While I'm at it, I think that if PP sells body parts
and haggles for the best price, as the most recent,
and the last videos have proved,
the women getting the abortion should reap
some of the profit off the sale.
That is only right and fair.

Also, if a woman has a right to cut out any
unwanted tissue, and someone is allowed to
sell it. How is that any different than an
adult wanting to cut out tissue and say
they don't want it and sell it to the highest
bidder?

originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Abortion is between a women and her doctor, not that hard to understand.

*and the father
Easier to understand.

Sorry, the father has zip, nada rights when it comes to abortion.

The male has become relegated in US society to two things:
1. sperm donor
2. financial support of the child (no emotional or physical involvement necessary)

Don't you know, the father means nothing
nothing at all to the US society,
unless he isn't paying child support,
then he is called a Dad for the first time,
a deadbeat Dad,
other than that the liberal/progressive
US society sees fathers
as totally worthless and unnecessary.

This attitude is quite clearly seen when it comes
to the sperm donors rights to have a say over
the life of his child.

Only the mother can give the body parts and organs
that are produced from the sperm and the egg
to PP. Who by the way, should be giving the women
a part of the profit they are making off the sale
of the body parts and organs.

1. I'm not going to swear to this, but I believe the women receiving the abortions DO sign consent to donate the remains.

2. The abortion is happening anyway, would you rather these tissues and various parts just be bagged up and thrown out with the trash? Personally if I were having an abortion I'd sign the consent. Like I'm going to take it home and keep it in a jar or something? Come on, now. It might as well go to some good use.

3. I personally wouldn't care if you were able to walk into a hospital and sell your kidney for profit. Whatevs. It's your kidney. But I'm sure real quick there would be cases of coercion and with the first death due to harvesting everyone would be up in arms about the barbarism.

4. The father's input on an abortion???? Of the females I've known who have gotten abortions the fathers were either a) a part of the decision and supportive of it or b) so horrible and abusive that the abortion was the desperate means the female had to use to cut ties with him and would have been horrible and abusive to the baby had it been born. So drop the whole "oh the poor fathers" tripe.

5. These organ negotiations involve fetuses 16-20 weeks or over. MOST abortions done in this time frame are due to major health problems for the mother, the fetus or both. I've NEVER heard of one woman who went through all the morning sickness, getting bigger, the sonograms etc. for 5 months then suddenly went "Never mind! I'll just get an abortion instead." Maybe once or twice that's happened, but is that really the type of woman you want popping out kids anyways? She probably hadn't even been doing proper prenatal care up until that point with a weird mindset like that.

Seems to me they need to set the prices, therefore eliminating the need to haggle. A poster on the other thread claims to be pro-choice but is disgusted by the haggling. Just set a price list and let's get on with our lives.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

The male has become relegated in US society to two things:
1. sperm donor
2. financial support of the child (no emotional or physical involvement necessary)

Don't you know, the father means nothing
nothing at all to the US society,
unless he isn't paying child support,
then he is called a Dad for the first time,
a deadbeat Dad,
other than that the liberal/progressive
US society sees fathers
as totally worthless and unnecessary.

Sorry lady....but men made their own bed on that one. Both of my kids were planned. I told both of their fathers "I've totally got this covered. I'm not going to ask you for anything. You can be as involved as you want to be." My daughter's father disappeared off the face of the earth 6 years ago. Not one dime. Not one visit. My son's father e-mails occasionally- but usually to try to solicit sex from me. I've asked him for financial help a couple of times, but he never seems to have spare cash. Go figure. During the 10 months of pregnancy and 1.5 years of his son's life I've seen $200 from him. He sees his son 1 or 2 days every 3-6 months. He said he would buy a sandbox over a month ago...I'm still waiting.

My best friend has 2 boys. Not one dime. Not one visit from either father.

Society didn't tell these guys to ditch their offspring. They did that all on their own.

* PS I've known some very dedicated fathers, so don't take this post as guy bashing. I'm just making the point that there are A LOT of sperm donor deadbeats out there, it's not a fabrication or exaggeration.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: grandmakdw

You can sell your organs.

Why you would want to...?

It is illegal in the US to sell your organs or to sell the organs of any human being, except aborted fetuses. They can be donated, but not sold after birth and the first breath.

I just found the article fascinating and interesting.


I said quite clearly I wasn't certain what I think about it, just that it was an interesting premise.

You can't sell aborted fetuses either. You have NOT read the entire law.