Heaven & Hell Aren't Real.. Or else Aliens Maybe?

a reply to: Thebel

I have noted that the biggest support for Hell is fiction, as the Bible is hugely insufficient for theological support of Hell.

Consider:

Dante

Milton

Mary Baxter

a reply to: Thebel

The Bible never mentions The Hell as a place. The whole fiery place underground was invented around the Medieval Period. The Old Testament doesn't even mention Hell, not a single time. Even in the New Testament, Hell is mentioned rarely.

No, the Hebrew Tanakh does not translate Hebrew to English as hell. You will find Sheol or Neither World in place of hell in the Hebrew understanding.

Jesus taught that Abraham's Bosom was in the earth or neither world and was in close proximity to the Greek section which we call hell.

Luke 16:19-26
(19) There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
(20) And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
(21) And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
(22) And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
(23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
(24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
(25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
(26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

In the KJV bible the word hell is mentioned 23 times in the NT. In the KJV bible the word hell is mentioned 31 times in the OT. All told hell is referenced 54 time in the KJV bible.

originally posted by: Seede


In the KJV bible the word hell is mentioned 23 times in the NT. In the KJV bible the word hell is mentioned 31 times in the OT. All told hell is referenced 54 time in the KJV bible.

In every instance, it is better translated as something else, such as the grave, sheol, the pit, or the unseen. Hell, as most people conceive it, is a human invention.

Kingdom of Heaven is to join the ranks in space. It is an Eternal army, because they are made up of living spirits.
Technology is used to contain ones consiousness within a non-corperal state, this lasts for millions of years and its described as Eternal.

Hell isn`t exactly one place, Hell is where every the holy spirit goes. Where the holy spirit is, Hell is not far behind.
Consiousness cannot exist in hell because it is obliteration of body and spirit. Totality of existance becomes fuel for the eternal flame. The eternal flame consumes all including soul.

Angels described in the bible cover themselves with their wings, Metaphorically. They are blacker than black and no light shines through them. They cover themselves with wings because if they did not. The Eternal flame would incinerate everything it touches. So even though the Angels are made of pure light. They cannot be seen other than as figures covered in darkness, The wings are a metaphore for this.

Living spirits are real. To be both dead and alive at the same time is very much possible. if we saw such an entity. Which i have seen and called upon before, Modern scientists would identify them as Inter-dimensional beings. Being both a poltergeist and living. They are able to manipulate time and space, and manifest in any shape. They are shapeshifters because they do not have a solid body like ours. They are formless and shapeless.

This is why they are personified as having 4 different shapes. The head of an eagle, The head of a man, The head of a ox and the head of a lion.





The wheel within a wheel is a saucer. Because it looks like a wheel ontop of another wheel.











Being a witness to them. As far as i know this is the only alien species interacting with humans on Earth.
They have been since before written history. And monuments to their likeness have been left all over the globe.









Hope you enjoy the content.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

In every instance, it is better translated as something else, such as the grave, sheol, the pit, or the unseen. Hell, as most people conceive it, is a human invention.

No, it is not translated as grave in the KJV bible. Luke 18:19-26 tells you that it is a definite place of consciousness and awareness of comfort and discomfort and It is not a proverb as so many want to also believe.

The orthodox Jews did accept Sheol as being the collective residence for all spirits at one time with seven gates of separation. Jesus bears this out somewhat in Matthews account.

Matthew_16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Regardless, the scriptures of both NT and OT, when taken in context, do not promote hell as being the terrestrial grave of a dead body. If so then where is the spirit? There are some "soul sleepers" religions but not in the Masoretic or Septuagint texts.

You are right in that it is perceived as being from human belief. It is theology.

a reply to: DumpMaster

First off, I believe that our universe is teeming with intelligent life. That there are Trillions of inhabited planets with mortal beings. I believe they all worship the same God, the Universal Father, the creator of all things. They would most certainly worship him in their own way.

Hell does not exist. It is a carry over from some earlier religions. As many would agree, it is used as a form of control. It is an unfortunate part of the history and evolution of religion. What we call Heaven does exist and it is outside of time/space. It is basically the machine that maintains and upholds time/space. Like God, it is Eternal.

a reply to: DumpMaster

Nothing is real.

****

And that's the only truth there is.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Lazarus Short

In every instance, it is better translated as something else, such as the grave, sheol, the pit, or the unseen. Hell, as most people conceive it, is a human invention.

No, it is not translated as grave in the KJV bible. Luke 18:19-26 tells you that it is a definite place of consciousness and awareness of comfort and discomfort and It is not a proverb as so many want to also believe.

The orthodox Jews did accept Sheol as being the collective residence for all spirits at one time with seven gates of separation. Jesus bears this out somewhat in Matthews account.

Matthew_16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Regardless, the scriptures of both NT and OT, when taken in context, do not promote hell as being the terrestrial grave of a dead body. If so then where is the spirit? There are some "soul sleepers" religions but not in the Masoretic or Septuagint texts.

You are right in that it is perceived as being from human belief. It is theology.

No, obviously it is not translated as "grave" in the KJV - make no mistake, I like the KJV, but for a very few things you must step outside the KJV world. "Hell" and "forever/everlasting/eternal" are two areas where bad theology has skewed the translation.

I looked at Luke 18:19-26 as you referenced, and in the KJV, but did not find it to be a discourse on "a definite place of consciousness and awareness of comfort and discomfort." For me, the key is right after when Jesus proclaims that what is impossible with man is possible with God.

Matthew 16:18 "gates of Hell" - it just means "gates of death" to me. I note that God never threatened anyone with eternity in Hell, just death. God never prescribed any punishment worse than death. God never warned anyone of Hell, at least as taught in most churches.

"If so then where is the spirit?" Ah, now you're getting somewhere! Consider how man was made: a lifeless body was given the Breath of Life (from God), and together they make a living soul. At death, the Spirit/Breath (same word) returns to God, for that is His part. The body returns to dust, for it is the earth's part. What happens to the soul? Gone, gone, gone! Poof!! Given that, what could be sent to Hell?

The body? A lifeless body in Hell to suffer? Absurd.

The Spirit? It's God's portion, and you don't send God's portion to Hell. Absurd.

The Soul? It contains the Spirit/Breath, and so what applies to the Spirit applies to the Soul. You don't send it to Hell either. Absurd.

Now if it's absurd to send any part of the body/soul/Spirit to Hell, the whole idea is absurd. Such are the fruits of theology.

originally posted by: LiquesenceNothing is real.

If so - nothing to get hung about...

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Matthew 16:18 "gates of Hell" - it just means "gates of death" to me. I note that God never threatened anyone with eternity in Hell, just death. God never prescribed any punishment worse than death. God never warned anyone of Hell, at least as taught in most churches.

You are quite correct in that hell is not eternal punishment according to the KJV bible but you would have a hard time explaining the other 23 times that it is written in the NT and the other 31 times that it is written in the OT.

Note that Revelation 20:13,14 is written that both death and hell are cast into the lake of fire -

Rev_20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

This will show that the two are two vastly different matters of consideration and not meaning the same.

"If so then where is the spirit?" Ah, now you're getting somewhere! Consider how man was made: a lifeless body was given the Breath of Life (from God), and together they make a living soul. At death, the Spirit/Breath (same word) returns to God, for that is His part. The body returns to dust, for it is the earth's part. What happens to the soul? Gone, gone, gone! Poof!! Given that, what could be sent to Hell? The body? A lifeless body in Hell to suffer? Absurd. The Spirit? It's God's portion, and you don't send God's portion to Hell. Absurd. The Soul? It contains the Spirit/Breath, and so what applies to the Spirit applies to the Soul. You don't send it to Hell either. Absurd. Now if it's absurd to send any part of the body/soul/Spirit to Hell, the whole idea is absurd. Such are the fruits of theology.

Yes, you are correct in that the body returns to its source but you are mistaken to believe that the spirits of all men are not judged.

Heb_9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

The dead lifeless and decayed body is not judged but it is the everlasting spirit that is judged.

Rev_20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Rev_20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

There is a judgment of hell and a judgment of the kingdom of heaven. That judgment happens immediately at death of the body. You may choose to not believe that but that is the doctrine of Christ Jesus. As your spirit is judged and accepted into the kingdom of heaven, you then are given a new covering of Shekinah Glory which is believed to be the celestial body that replaces the terrestrial body. Hell is not permanent in that it and all in it will be done away with in the end.

a reply to: Seede

Seede:
You are quite correct in that hell is not eternal punishment according to the KJV bible but you would have a hard time explaining the other 23 times that it is written in the NT and the other 31 times that it is written in the OT.

Laz:
Not hard at all - I happen to have a chart by my desk showing how the KJV "Hell" is translated in a number of versions. I tell you, the KJV version is not the final authority, or is 2015 scholarship inferior to 1611 scholarship? I as as a former defender of the KJV, and I still like it for most things. Step outside the box, please!

Seede:
Note that Revelation 20:13,14 is written that both death and hell are cast into the lake of fire -

Rev_20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Laz:
Of course, it's death and the grave which are cast into the LoF. That being so, how can anyone still be dead and/or in hell after that? For this reason, the "second death" must be temporary in the extreme. Age-long at the very longest, but then the wording is a bit confusing. As Paul says in I Corinthians, at the end of time, or rather the beginning of eternity, God becomes All in all. Now how can He become All in all if anyone is still dead and/or in Hell? This no-heller looks forward to the ultimate reconciliation, not to the difficulties in the near or middle distance.

For the body/soul/spirit thing, I believe you have not rightly divided between soul and spirit. I say again that the breath/spirit [same word] of Life, one of the Seven Spirits of God, can not come into judgment, only the resurrected [not yet glorified] person/living soul. I may be splitting hairs here, but that's how I see it.