3.5 Million Homeless - Uncontrolled Capitalism at its Finest

a reply to: ketsuko

You obviously don't understand the concept of non-taxed corporate spending accounts based on a percentage of their gross sales.

This is the 3rd time I have provided this answer.

Also it is possible to Incintivise private growth when it is necessary for the people, not for the corporations.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Isurrender73

Somehow you fixate on controlling corporations and yet, think supply and demand can function in that scenario?

Currently, most retail items have a fixed price set at the corporate levels. Large corporations generate the most profits in a controlled supply and demand systems.

You may think you have supply and demand now, but you would be wrong.

You live in a CONTROLLED SUPPLY AND DEMAND SYSTEM, run by very few corporations.

Again more smaller competing companies will ensure a true supply and demand model. And as stated serveral times, this was the point of the Sherman Act.

I am not rewriting history by trying to limit the size of corporations. I am simply pushing us to get back to what worked the best. Without the Loopholes this time.

a reply to: Isurrender73

So that 2% will allow, without recourse or fight, the Lawyers, Doctors, et al, not to mention the wealthy in both political parties, this to occur?

That includes people like myself that see this as bordering on insanity.

In every major move on social issues, there is an 'entry point', prima facie, somewhat reasonable, that becomes the precedent for further control/legislation that inevitably increases beyond that point of entry.

Someone, upon seeing this doesn't do enough to 'create jobs' then trumpets that all it will take is increase it to 5%....at a slightly lower maximum wage...

I'm not changing your mind and you sure won't change mine.

Go ahead and expound to your heart's content. TPTB are the ones who have the decision power over this and it's their income that your messing with, including the future potential of my daughter and grandchildren.

Good luck..

“It's clear that our trade policy creates winners and losers,” said Senator Sherrod Brown, an Ohio Democrat who has led opposition to trade-negotiating authority. “Trade agreements do not create winners everywhere. People in my state are losing jobs from these trade agreements.”

Get a roundup of important business national business lobbying campaign geared up when it became clear Obama was making trade a top priority. Hatch complimented Obama for staying engaged to secure Democratic backing in the Senate.
'WORK IT HARD' “In this case, he really did work it hard,” Hatch said. “Without him I'm not sure we would have gotten this result.”

Fellow Democrats bitterly fought Obama, arguing that the 1994 North American Free Trade Agreement cost thousands of U.S. manufacturing jobs. Organized labor formed the backbone of the opposition.

“It's clear that our trade policy creates winners and losers,” said Senator Sherrod Brown, an Ohio Democrat who has led opposition to trade-negotiating authority. “Trade agreements do not create winners everywhere. People in my state are losing jobs from these trade agreements.”

It's going to get worse. The trade agreement could be the final straw for our economy.

a reply to: Isurrender73

I would like to thank ALL,who have participated in this thread.

I don't usually have this much fun in a debate. If I offended anyone let me apologize. I can be quite opinionated at times.

originally posted by: xuenchen

Please post a little at a time.

I WILL listen.

If I listen, many others will too !!

originally posted by: Isurrender73

It would take me months. Sorry I don't have that kind of time to explore my whims. And it is possible I would need numbers that are not available to the general public.

It looks like the theories are already failed before even starting.

Hmmm.

Too bad.

a reply to: StoutBroux

Agreed, the current trade agreements have lead to slave labor conditions in some countries and increased poverty in others.

But the 1% keep getting richer.

But we can't put a cap on their wealth, because some people want to make a billion dollars and they should have every right to exploit the system how they see fit. - Sarcasm

a reply to: xuenchen

Let me see you put together a financial spreadsheet for the entire nation on a whim.

Something I promise you that I CAN DO. I have the intelligence needed, which is why I know it would take months, and I might not have access to all data sets necessary to complete the calculations.

One of the top 5 global corporations use financial tools that I CREATED.

Reinstate Glass-Steagal, clamp down on the revolving door that allows Wall Street folks to spend a few years in DC as Cabinet members, abolish the Fed Reserve, and criminalize the folks who run straight from the Pentagon to comfortable positions in the Defense industry...

OH wait.. that will never happen, we are too fixated on Sharknado 3...

carry on...

originally posted by: JacKatMtn
Reinstate Glass-Steagal, clamp down on the revolving door that allows Wall Street folks to spend a few years in DC as Cabinet members, abolish the Fed Reserve, and criminalize the folks who run straight from the Pentagon to comfortable positions in the Defense industry...

OH wait.. that will never happen, we are too fixated on Sharknado 3...

carry on...

I agree with all of those actions too. You mean I am missing Sharknado 3, dang it. Haha

a reply to: Isurrender73

And they're gonna pass this next week:

The 60-38 vote Wednesday follows passage last week by the House, ending a six-month legislative battle that saw the president working closely with Republicans to outmaneuver members of his own Democratic Party who opposed the bill.

“Republicans were glad to accept President Obama’s support in advancing a principle we’ve long believed in -- that we ought to show our support for American workers by knocking down unfair foreign trade barriers that discriminate against products stamped ‘Made in the USA,’” Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, said in a statement after the vote.

*snip*

Following the completion of negotiating authority, the Senate passed by voice vote a bill, H.R. 1295, to extend a federal program to assist workers who lose their jobs because of trade agreements. The House is likely to pass it Thursday. www.bloomberg.com...

a reply to: xuenchen

Taking this understanding, that all big governments in history have failed and that big government does not work, what are we to do? If all big governments have failed, what governments have not failed. Even little governments end up failing because they are overrun by nations with bigger governments that support bigger armies and provide bigger and better weapons.

I think my problem with this whole idea of smaller government, is this. How's it going to work. Just starve it to death? Cut the funding and all?. Because to my mind, all big governments in the past HAVE failed. They have all turned into authoritarian states that dictate how to live to the people.
But xue, beyond big government, what big organization of any sort has been a success. Big religions have failed to my mind also.

Seems to me that we are locked in a dance of complexity which cannot be remedied by just blaming everything on
Big Government. Seems to me that all forms of human interaction that are allowed to develop to the degree of big government and big business end up authoritarian. And how we gonna stop that if we only focus on one form of authoritarianism. Government authoritarianism is one thing and and unleashed capitalism is the same thing. It will crush anyone who stands in it's way. Because capitalism as I understand it is not a free market. It is not some ideal of exchange, or some perfect avenue guided by some invisible hand. If there ever was real capitalism, I think that we do not have it today. Why? Not only because of governments trying to control it, but inherent flaws in it's basic nature and the way it attempts to define all of humankind.

Sure, has capitalism or some form of it worked? Oh yeah, look at all the "progress" that has come about under it's sway. But look at all the bad that has come along with it, as the OP is trying to point out.

a reply to: Isurrender73

YOu don't solve the problems I consider worth solving, by asking the same folks who created the mess, to fix it...

catch my drift? the answer isn't as simple as our Gov't making your desires so... as a matter of fact, I think they would love to do what you wish, and gain more power...

we need more power over those who have been elected, not give them more... it's obvious that when they get more, they want more...

Look what they have done..... both sides of the aisle are culpable... but the blame ultimately falls to us the voters for allowing this to happen...

a reply to: StoutBroux

Now that is government control at its finest.

I think we need to establish a universal min wage with every trade partner. This would end exploitation and encourage a global supply and demand system.

I remember when AMERICAN MADE meant something. And Americans were irate about the working conditions in other countries. We used to call them SWEAT SHOPS, now we just call it MADE IN CHINA, INDIA, PHILIPPINES.....

originally posted by: JacKatMtn
a reply to: Isurrender73

YOu don't solve the problems I consider worth solving, by asking the same folks who created the mess, to fix it...

catch my drift? the answer isn't as simple as our Gov't making your desires so... as a matter of fact, I think they would love to do what you wish, and gain more power...

we need more power over those who have been elected, not give them more... it's obvious that when they get more, they want more...

Look what they have done..... both sides of the aisle are culpable... but the blame ultimately falls to us the voters for allowing this to happen...

Our elected leaders have no power because they are bought by billionaires.

How would eliminating the billionaires add to the problem?

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: Bicent76

So how do we create 21.3 million jobs?

Or do you not care because you have found a way to get by?

You allow people to hire other people and trade with each other unmolested.

a reply to: Isurrender73

How would allowing those billionaires and their bought and paid influence in our government, more power...

help?

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Isurrender73

But deregulation of banking...

Banking deregulation was the result of a Democratic President and a Republican Congress. What does that tell you?

Our leaders have been bought through campaign contributions. Don't bite the hand that feeds you, if you can't beat them join them.

Something like that.

Yes, very much like the effect socialism and all forms of legal plunder have on individuals.

No it is actually uncontrolled liberal and democratic policies.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: xuenchen

Taking this understanding, that all big governments in history have failed and that big government does not work, what are we to do? If all big governments have failed, what governments have not failed. Even little governments end up failing because they are overrun by nations with bigger governments that support bigger armies and provide bigger and better weapons.

I think my problem with this whole idea of smaller government, is this. How's it going to work. Just starve it to death? Cut the funding and all?. Because to my mind, all big governments in the past HAVE failed. They have all turned into authoritarian states that dictate how to live to the people.
But xue, beyond big government, what big organization of any sort has been a success. Big religions have failed to my mind also.

Seems to me that we are locked in a dance of complexity which cannot be remedied by just blaming everything on
Big Government. Seems to me that all forms of human interaction that are allowed to develop to the degree of big government and big business end up authoritarian. And how we gonna stop that if we only focus on one form of authoritarianism. Government authoritarianism is one thing and and unleashed capitalism is the same thing. It will crush anyone who stands in it's way. Because capitalism as I understand it is not a free market. It is not some ideal of exchange, or some perfect avenue guided by some invisible hand. If there ever was real capitalism, I think that we do not have it today. Why? Not only because of governments trying to control it, but inherent flaws in it's basic nature and the way it attempts to define all of humankind.

Sure, has capitalism or some form of it worked? Oh yeah, look at all the "progress" that has come about under it's sway. But look at all the bad that has come along with it, as the OP is trying to point out.

The United States of America is the oldest government on the planet so this experiment is not over.

Our founders warned us of the dangers of central power and we have been dismissing their remonstrations. We must correct that error.

I think the delusion in all of this is the very idea that any "system" could possibly be successful in solving all (or even some) of humanities problems. It is the absence of a system, the free market, that allows for the best possible outcomes simply by allowing all outcomes.