Senator John McCain is Not a War Hero

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
A Purple Heart for getting blown off a 5 story building while saving 5 guys by continuously firing while injured so they can get away? Or getting one for twisting an ankle failing out of a jeep in the field? Apples and Oranges.

As someone who blew out his ACL in Iraq by jumping off of a humvee I can tell you that you don't get a Purple Heart for injuring yourself.

a reply to: notmyrealname

I've said it many times: Heroism is relative and subjective.

There's no absolute in heroism, unless political correctness gets involved, and that's what we have here with the McCain/Trump issue.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Understood sir. My point was every once in awhile there's a news story about someone getting one for no real good singular reason.

Thank you for your service.

Best

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Meh, there is always someone who abused the system and gets something that many would think he didn't deserve. Don't let the outliers define your opinion of the whole though.

Did you guys read the links in the original Post?

I have no issue with calling people who serve hero's although I think that term is diminished if we just toss it out to anyone who put on a uniform. I know may guys who served that just did normal day to day work that just happened to be in the military. They dont consider themselves hero's.

Mr McCain however did more than that. He flew carrier OP's which are dangerous by there very nature. He was shot down in a combat zone and captured. He served time as a POW. For these things we can say he performed heroic actions.
Can we all agree however that hero's can later do things that tarnish or even remove their hero status?
Duke Cunningham flew in the same skies that McCain flew in. He shot down Enemy planes and became an ace. He later went on to be a congressman and is now serving time for political corruption. No one would throw the hero title at him these days.
Hero's are honorable people. If they later do things that are dishonorable they lose the title of hero. McCain did dishonorable things even during his service. There is almost 100% certainty that he purposely "wet started" his A4 on the deck of the Forestall and caused the fire that killed 167 sailors. There are considerable questions about his conduct as a POW. That he did things that aided the NVA regarding political goals by providing confessions and propaganda victories for his captors. Things that most of the other POW's did not do. That could be excused however since there was torture involved and we cant really be to critical of him for that. Stockdale however and many other withstood the torture and did not give in to NVA demands. So while I would not be too critical of McCain i would not praise him either.
All those things on there own would cause me to not use the term hero with Mr McCain, but there is more.
After the war was over McCain became instrumental in the effort to recover POW's and MIA's still in Vietnam. That normally would be classified as heroic effort except his efforts were all geared toward covering up any evidence that POW's and MIA's were still in Vietnam. For what ever reason, only he can say for sure, he systematically blocked, debunked or just flat out classified any evidence that there were fellow POW's still in Vietnam after the war was over.

The man is a scumbag an does not deserve to stand in the same zip code as someone like Admiral Stockdale.

SO, reading the many comments has caused me to further look into this matter and to challenge my own opinions (shouldn't we all?). Thus far, I have learned a few things here and I wanted to share them with everyone:

Firstly, the most significant thing I have come to understand is that potentially young Sen. McCain had the opportunity to leave Vietnam captivity early; While my gut feeling tells me there is more to that story than I have found, in lieu of not finding it, I must admit some newfound respect for the man's actions. That is itself would cause me to re-evaluate my opinion. - Thanks vonclod

Next, I learned that while McCain was renowned as a screwup, he did, in fact earn some decorations prior to his capture which would demand some respect. (I also have some skepticism here as awards are not always given out meritoriously in the military, many times it is political and we know the pedigree of McCain in the Navy). In short, as above: While my gut feeling tells me there is more to that story than I have found, in lieu of not finding it, I must admit some newfound respect for the man's actions.

None of this leads me to change my opinion on the Senator though; but that is not the subject of this OP>

I will continue to look for more as I am interested to see why my gut tells me there is more here….

Peace

I mean, we almost have a forced hero worship for anyone that dons a uniform in this country. If you don't hang a yellow ribbon, give them your place in line and wave your American flag your a horrible person and a traitor.

I've seen the way the mob behaves when it thinks someone isn't a military supporter. It isn't pretty.

If anyone else had said these things about a military service member, they'd be run out of town with pitch forks and torches. I don't understand how conservative thinking people are giving him a free pass? What, McCain lost and conservatives don't like losers?

The easiest way to traditionally loose a conservative voter is knock the military or a service member. Just because the GOP voting base is pissed at their own party's inability to win means Trump gets a free pass?

Staying in that hellhole when given the opportunity to leave early took balls. Huge balls. This entire discussion is horribly misguided and disrespectful, in my opinion. How dare you people talk down to a man who has willingly suffered through things you will never experience and cannot imagine. Shame on all of you.

Anyone of the limited number of Americans who voluntarily enlist to put their lives on the line to protest freedom, and this country, is automatically a hero, as far as I'm concerned.

Very few answer that call. I salute them all.

a reply to: notmyrealname

All I know is that his Military record is really sketchy. It's one reason why he avoids commenting on the issue when others use it as a weapon against him. He also for some reason according to my understanding did everything he could to stall and halt some sort of POW legislature in congress. This brought some people who knew him at points in his captivity and else where to speak out against him. How true it is is beyond me but it's questionable either way.

Some argue that he even stayed for a possible grooming for political gains when he would be eventually released and return home. His family has a great deal of influence in Military circles. The man is the most War hawkish person I have ever witnessed in politics. He is right up there with Chenney.

a reply to: jaffo
I respect your opinion however would encourage you to read the entire OP before casting stones.

I know he served during war time, and went through some things, I couldn't probably take myself, so I'll respect that, but what he's done to this country while in office I can't respect so it's a wash for me. Just another bought and paid for politician now. #$%^ him

a reply to: MystikMushroom
I do not identify with either of these labels. and I do not believe in the two party system as stated previously. I am conservative on some matters such as business however I am liberal when it comes to social issues. I think it is too bad than many refuse to break out of this two party construct (control mechanism) as it prevents the real issues from being discussed.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I mean, we almost have a forced hero worship for anyone that dons a uniform in this country.

Two of my favorite people in the world are vets, but that has nothing to do with this.

So, you become an auto-bot for the corporate elite and now they proclaim you a hero and it's built into the system we live under.

We are pretty much brainwashed continuously by the MSM from day 1.

Enlisted folks are the corporate slaves that that kill poor folks around the world that sit on resources the corporations need.

Not sure what the percentage of hires are, but it has to be over 90% of folks who walk through the recruiting door.

The truth is most folks go into the military because they take nearly anyone, no skills are required and it beats flipping burgers. Natural born killers join because they can kill and stay out of prison, when their career ends they can join the PD and kill some more. Ask yourself why are there so many homeless vets, oh yeah they all have PTSD right? Wrong, they would of been homeless even sooner had they not joined the military.

Sure there is a few Academy folks & flight jockeys looking for tip top training.

Heroes, sure a few. The Senator is not a hero just because he was captured.

I don't like the term 'war hero'.

If serving your country makes you a hero, then a lot of those 'heroes' are not treated as such. Here's one man, touted as a war hero, and there's the vet on the street who's name is forgotten by all but himself. Sure he was a POW, but so were many others who did or did not make it home.

As for trump, well he is just a rich man with a squirrel on his head. How on earth did he become a candidate? Do the republicans draw names from a hat* and hope for the best?

*I imagine there was a lot of money thrown into that hat.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I don't get it.

This is America, we're fanatical over calling our military members heroes. One of the quickest ways to commit career suicide is to insult a military member.

Why is this different with McCain?

Because Trump said it?

So now the same conservatives that jump down anyone's throat for not supporting the military 150% are excusing Trump on this?

Because Mccain has no real respect for the rest of the military ??

Because he has been caught spreading lies and helping to foment wars based on those lies ??

He has spread so much negativity in the world in the last 15 years ALONE that it is almost impossible to calculate, maybe some of those reasons.

I found an article that purport quite a bit about Sen. McCain's military career that some people may want to read and judge for themselves. I will be ordering the book mentioned in the article and see what I can find in there.

Still just looking for the truth.

McCain the Hero…

a reply to: notmyrealname

Who cares if he was a Hero, which he was not, he was just trying to prove he was not a spoiled daddies boy and recieve hate for the rest of his life.

I do not care if you WERE a hero if your a scumbag now. That is what Trump should have said rather than caving, just like he did with Obama's fake birth certificate. One reason why I will never vote for Trump.