U.N. slams U.S. as 'stingy' over tsunami aid!

Originally posted by Skibum
Perhaps American citizens should stop donating to charities that benefit other countries, since apparently to some people on the board, only donations from the government count. I for one will not be donating anything thanks to those members. I will let the government handle all aid since it is the only aid that seems to count.

I'll continue, because I don't give to charities to further myself. I genuinely want to help. Who cares if your aid counts in the eyes of the politicians, all that matters is that your aid counts to that little child who will get to have another meal, another day, because you thought to give.

This almost makes me laugh, except this is a tradgedy we are talking about.

But as far as the UN goes, I pretty much put as much faith in this crap as much as i do the UN.

This is the same UN that was involved in the oil for food scandal. This is the same UN that sat on its ass while genocide took place in Rwanda. Same Un whose peacekeepers committed terrible acts of rape.

When it comes to humanitarian aid, I wouldnt give the UN a dime. I am putting my donations for the relief of this disaster into agencies and organizations I feel are alot more trustworthy and caring than the UN.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Therefore it is not immense, and hence my statement must be true.
Good day.

You wish. Sorry to disappoint ya', but the private donations are
adding up. Example - UPS has donated airplanes. Worth how many
millions??? Private donations through Amazon.com are in the multi-millions. Same with Catholic Charities. ETC ETC IMMENSE it is.

I've already established that it's peanuts, even if it were to total $100 million, it would still be only 1.5% of what America is capable of giving.

Let's assume the hypothetical $100 million

The countries that it is designated for: Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Somalia, Maldives(this included India before it rejected it) If we assume it will be distributed equally, that means each country get $20 million each.
In terms of %GDP per each country that is:

Indonesia: $758.85 billion - 0.0026%
Thailand: $447.45 billion - 0.004%
Sri Lanka: $73.7 billion - 0.027%
Somalia: $4.361 billion - 0.46%
Maldives: $1.25 billion - 1.6%

So across the board it's peanuts.

again, Americans open their hearts and check books for those in need.
And once again, they get yelled at 'it's just peanuts'.

You are
obviously happy with not seeing the generosity of Americans.
I'll be praying for you. Good day right backchya.

What I am seeing is a people galvanized into emptying their pockets by the media. There are people in need everyday, I don't see American pockets emptying for them. I am immune to hypocrisy.

If your people had the gall to speak up against your government. I would have a lot more respect for them. Send your congress man letters, saying you want them to give more to the developing countries, and you are exercising your right as a tax paying citizen.

[edit on 30-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
If your people had the gall to speak up against your government.
Send your congress man letters, saying you want them to give more
to the developing countries.

I don't want to 'speak up against my government'. It's doing just
fine and I have nothing to 'speak up against' - except that we
are still giving $$ to the UN and we shouldn't be giving them a
dime until we fully investigate the Oil for Food multi-billion $$
thefts and the (alleged) selling of security council veto votes by
France, Germany, Russia, and China.

I have absolutely no intention of sending my congress man
(and women!) any letters saying that I want more of our $$
sent to developing countries. We officially send plenty already,

Also, our private charities and churches give ASTOUNDING amounts.
(heck ... my little church has a sister church in Guatamala that we
are working water projects and other health issues with -
tens of thousands of $$$ freely given by the people of my little church
that never make the news).

THAT's our culture. Something that apparently plenty of non-Americans
don't understand. We give privately and through charities. That's
our way. Too bad this culture isn't respected and some think that
only their way of 'official government donation' counts.

I, for one, think that the private donation of airplanes by UPS, and
the millions in $$ and pharmaciticals donated by Johnson and Johnson
and other corporate donations are AWESOME!



[edit on 12/30/2004 by FlyersFan]

I don't want to 'speak up against my government'. It's doing just
fine and I have nothing to 'speak up against'

You have a lot to speak up against. I won't even begin to enlist what you should be speaking up against.

I have absolutely no intention of sending my congress man
(and women!) any letters saying that I want more of our $$
sent to developing countries. We officially send plenty already,

Yeah, I know you have no intention of sending letters to your congress man to increase their aid to developing countries. You are content with the government using your $$$ to fuel wars. After all, you are a "generous" "kind-hearted" and "moral" American taxpaying citizen

Also, our private charities and churches give ASTOUNDING amounts.
(heck ... my little church has a sister church in Guatamala that we
are working water projects and other health issues with -
tens of thousands of $$$ freely given by the people of my little church
that never make the news).

I am not interested in your "Astounding" and "Immense" rhetoric. I have already shown you it's peanuts through hard maths. If it was "astounding" there would simply be no poverty anywhere in the world.

THAT's our culture. Something that apparently plenty of non-Americans
don't understand. We give privately and through charities. That's
our way. Too bad this culture isn't respected and some think that
only their way of 'official government donation' counts.

I am not sure where you live, but it's not America, it sounds more like Never Never land.

I am not buying it sorry, it's nothing more than empty and misguided words. The fact is 5% of American GDP and poverty the world over is eradicated. The truth is Americans spend more on pizzas and clubbing, then they do in feeding the hungry and homeless.

[edit on 30-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Numerous people & unfortunately even the media have completely missed-- or are deliberately ignoring-- the true origin of how all of this �stinginess� controversy actually evolved!

FACT: 28dec2004 - The first official US announcement regarding any pledges of aid toward this Tsunami disaster was �...we're committing $100K in aid..." while adding �...we haven�t received any official requests from those country�s leaders...�

Huh??? Was that last part of their statement some kind of silly sophomoric diplomatic code for "if ya don't ask for it, ya aint gonna get none?"

Wow! O.K. then, let's review--

� Thousands of people missing, inluding some Americans...
� 100k+ dead...
� 200k-500k+ injured...
� MILLIONS displaced, jobless, & homeless...
� US offers mind-boggling 'initial offer' of "$100K in aid"...
� Absolutely no mention of any other additional types of IMMEDIATE/URGENT aid and support...
E.G. organizing volunteers & delivering equipment, emergency tents/shelter, food, water, clothing, general supplies,
doctors, clean-up crews, foregoing/forgiving current debts of all affected countries, etc...
� --AND-- no mention of any other long-term considerations or plans for assistance & support...

HELLO !!!

Yes- this does indeed officially qualify as "stingy!"... especially, since the US gov't didn't hesitate to appropriate billions in aid for its own (exponentially smaller!) hurricane & other disasters.

However, there are many different types of aid & support; we shouldn't remain so narrowly focused on JUST monetary amounts.

U.S. citizens are by far some of the most caring, considerate, & generous people in the world.

It's incredibly insulting & embarrassing that, however, US leaders repeatedly fail to follow the vast will of its people AND would actually have the audacity to make or require others to officially 'ask' for aid before extending a truly sincerely generous, caring, kind, out-reaching hand of compassion.

Regardless of any political party affiliations, religious beliefs, etc-- where's the TRUE human "compassionate conservatism" here??

No wonder so many throughout the world loathe & despise the US, or at least its leadership...

No wonder the U.N. made such (indirect) comments-- albeit perhaps unwisely timed given their own scandal(s).

However, with such public comments, the UN (quite cleverly!) succeeded in stirring this "�stingy� pot of stink", and, like it or not, it worked!!!

$35M is MUCH more than a paultry, embarrassing, $100K openning bid!

Yes- $35M is far better, yet is still merely peanuts compared to the wealth of the US nation and its leaders-- relative to the massive enormity of this disaster & devistation as well as knowing that these regions were already economically depressed/distressed (i.e. financially 'poor') well before this unthinkable catastrophe.

Current US leadership has consistently underestimated the short- & long-term resources needed for the Iraq war, AND sadly, seem to be blissfully continuing (ever consistently) down their growing path of ignorance.

Such ignorance needlessly and senselessly causes tremendously adverse effects-- as already witnessed... which, if I'm not mistaken, is the VERY REASON why this website exists! So...

Kill ignorance- Not people!

Perhaps, in the future, US leaders will give more careful intelligent consideration to such decisions BEFORE committing such embarrassing mistakes! However, if past history is any indication of future performance--- don't hold your breath!

Fortunately, given the attention received by this 'stingy' controversy, US leaders are finally seeing the errors of their 'initial' tsunami of mis-judgements, and, are now quickly reacting & dramatically increasing their aid pledges proportionally-- with more to come as this situation evolves.

Too bad they're also simultaneously trying to deflect criticism away from their own misjudgements (i.e. ignorance) and instead have chosen to criticise &/or embarrass others who merely pointed out such US leadership mistakes.

Hopefully US citizens-- through their positive supportive actions like private donations, prayers, volunteer support, & myriads of other generous means-- will prevail & continue to show their leaders the TRUE, magnificent spirit of the United States of America & its people.

###

[edit on 30-12-2004 by SecretAss_sassin]

Wow, once again the United States and its citizens have come to the aide in time of world crisis.

From farmers to working class people to her rich industrialists money and supplies have started to flow in to help the Tsunami survivors.

Every where I look and read, its how to send money or supplies to help these people in time of need.

All religions and community organizations are working on getting the word out on what is needed and where to send money or supplies, its just incredible!

Yes the response has taken time to get rolling, but look at the magnitude of what has occurred.

12 countries affected by this event.

Diplomatic channels must be opened first, before aide and help can start to arrive.

Cargo jets have begun to land with relief supplies and soon it will turn into a Berlin type re-supply mission.

By the way, did anyone notice which county these first cargo jets came from?

The US Navy is moving ships into position to help with recovery efforts and aide, but from what I understand these ships must stay out at sea in case of another earthquake and or Tsunami.

So at least for now the relief effort must come from the air.

Its looks as if UN officials have back peddled on its original statement in regards to United States as being stingy in regards to this disaster and rightly so!

I don�t what to be a horses ass on this subject but.

The majority of the world hates the United States and its people until something happens like this Tsunami.

Then the world looks to the United States for instant relief and aide, like poof we can pull millions of pound of food and water out of our asses and ship them across the globe overnight.

Yes we can do it, raise the funds transport the supplies in time crisis, but the moral of the story is this.

Be prepared to survive on your own for at least a week, and yes help will arrive to pick you up and help you recover and once you get back on your feet, remember this!

It was the working class citizens of the United States who rallied together to help in time of need.

The people you hate and despise.

Happy New Year
SIRR1

SecretAss_sassin

Thank you and welcome to the thread. You have written an excellent post *applause*

Originally posted by SecretAss_sassin
FACT: 28dec2004 - The first official US announcement regarding any pledges of aid toward this Tsunami disaster was �...we're committing $100K in aid..." while adding �...we haven�t received any official requests from those country�s leaders...�
Huh??? Was that last part of their statement some kind of silly sophomoric diplomatic code for "if ya don't ask for it, ya aint gonna get none?"

Yeah, and if you look at the first reports of the tsunami (or read page one of this thread) you see the initial reports said 150 possibly dead.


You find it strange that someone ready to give aid would ask the question "What do you need and how much?" before tossing around millions$$ ?

You find it strange that someone ready to give aid would ask the question "What do you need and how much?" before tossing around millions$$ ?

Well, as we have established this disaster is bigger than the hurricanes in US, it therefore means the relief fund should be bigger. The relief for the hurricanes was in billions of dollars. So what should the relief for 10 countries in SE Asia be? $35 million?

[edit on 30-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
SecretAss_sassin

Thank you and welcome to the thread. You have written an excellent post

*applause*

Thanks for reading, & responding.

I'm just trying to be observant, rational, & responsible during these incredibly difficult, exceedingly troubling, emotionally charged & trying times.

It's very interesting (& sometimes disturbing) to see how such a diversity of people around the world respond (quite differently) to such difficult, challenging, unbelievable situations-- such as this quake/tsunami disaster.

SAS

All these Millions everyone speaks of are nothing once distrubuted among 5 different countries...The U.N. is right, these countries could be more generous and front the money at once rather than at intervals. It's all about international help and peace. On 9/11 the US recieved many generous donations from countries all over the world as well, so there is nothing to be mad about.

Originally posted by quango

You find it strange that someone ready to give aid would ask the question "What do you need and how much?" before tossing around millions$$ ?

Quango, thanks for your interest.

Yes, of course, that's a perfectly reasonable AND rather intelligent question to ask!

Too bad US leadership failed to communicate, at least publicly to the world, that's indeed what they're doing... if they even thought to ask that very important question at all- especially before going to press!

Because-- if they had asked this important question, they likely would have more effectively integrated the resulting information into their evaluations & initial public statement(s).

Or- if they had just said "we're immediately sending $100K in aid as well as DART teams, congressional delegations, & other advisors to better evaluate the totality of this disaster in order to more adequately determine & effectively address those countries' needs..."

That kind of statement, or one similar, would have been significantly better and, possibly, minimized all this continuing 'stinginess' contrtoversy.

Yes, it appears most people (at that time) still didn't TRULY comprehend the enormity & seriousness of this disaster. It was almost 48 before the major news networks started continuous coverage.

Admittedly, it was hard to tell from the initial video that the tsunami was truly so extremely disasterous... it just looked like a little excessive water/waves washing onshore- at least from the first video footage.

Most communications in that area were almost completely wiped out which only compounded the situation making it difficult even for them to adequately determine & then appropriately advise the world of the magnitude of their devistation as well as their needs.

So... given these facts, perhaps the US shouldn't have put any dollar figures out, UNTIL they actually knew more about the situation... like-- as you correctly stated-- asking how much money &/or other assistance those countries indeed need... once again intelligently avoiding or averting this controversy.

It just seems to be yet another example of acting (or not) without fully evalutaing & comprehending a given situation as well as another example of certain people being unable or unwilling to admit making any mistakes OR mis-statements, inadvertently or otherwise.

It takes a big (secure) person to admit failure &/or any mistakes... that says it all.

However-- now that the world knows more about just how severely dire the situation is & continues to be...

It is time for ALL throughout the world to stop any petty bickering, unite, organize, contribute, and distribute anything & everything possible... which --> THANKFULLY

World Bank $250m
UK $96m
EU $44m
US: $35m
Canada: $33m
Japan: $30m
Australia: $27m
France: $20.4m
Denmark: $15.6m
Saudi Arabia: $10m
Norway: $6.6m
Taiwan: $5.1m
Finland: $3.4m
Kuwait: $2.1m
Netherlands: $2.6m
UAE: $2m
Ireland $1.3m
Singapore: $1.2m

Enough said, UK funding will be alot larger than that, considering the way ppl r giving here atm

France has pledged $75 million.

They officially of my poo-poo list and at the top of the donator list!

As those donations continue to roll in:

U.S. companies are expected to contribute hundreds of millions of dollars in relief aid to tsunami-hit Asia, but some may be slower to help since the sudden disaster struck during a holiday season, company executives and charity experts said on Wednesday.

--snip--

The American Red Cross has so far received $18 million from private and corporate donors, spokeswoman Carol Miller said. Among the larger early donors to tsunami relief are drugmaker Pfizer Inc., which pledged $10 million in cash and $25 million in medical supplies; Johnson & Johnson with a donation of $2 million plus supplies; and J.P. Morgan Chase with up to $3 million, including matched employee contributions.

U.S. companies seen as big donors to tsunami relief


Let's keep praying that dispite the continued 'rhetoric of differences', that the donations continue to increase for those stricken by this tragic event.

Everyone should consider to become proactive and graciously donate to their favorite charity or relief organization.




seekerof

Originally posted by Skibum
Perhaps American citizens should stop donating to charities that benefit other countries, since apparently to some people on the board, only donations from the government count. I for one will not be donating anything thanks to those members. I will let the government handle all aid since it is the only aid that seems to count.

I think the discussion on this topic is ugly.

The terrible tragedy of these peoples, and what is argued about here? Who is giving the most money? Just like a little kid, my dad is better than yours. bah humbug.

Is it thought that if we don't shame people into giving, there will be none?
I don't believe that.

Despite the above comment (perhaps made with disgust because of the tone of this thread) Americans, everyday, hard working, some poor, some rich are out there right now giving all that they can because of their empathy for these people.

And the unkind remarks about Bill Gates? Bill Gates is known to be very generous.

World Bank $250m

Credit or do they really give that away for free?

The greatest tragedy in the last ten years was when al Qaeida didn't make a wrong turn and take out the UN instead of the WTC. We give more than any country on the planet period. We pay for the UN we keep the ungrateful rat Basta** diplomats in our country free of charge. Where I'll add they flagrantly use their diplomatic passports to get away with whatever they damn well please.
That and we've got problems of our own, the US can't keep being the worlds piggy bank. If your country doesn't sock away cash to cover disaster relief and other things you have no right to criticize the US. WE as americans are sick of seeing our money go out to other countries in the form of economic aid when unemployment is rising and base wages are falling here. I feel bad for the people this happened to I really do, but we can't keep doling out money in the billions every year to help keep Nations solvent and then on top be expected to pick up the tab because an entire cluster of nations dropped the ball and not only didn't invest in tsunami warning systems but then didn't even manage to alert people that there had been a 9.0 quake in the ocean. I mean for the love of god the wave took hours to get to shore.

The British total is a good one, I donated this morning and its going up by a million every hour at peak times.

I was walking around in the city today and just about every shop had collection buckets or people out in the street collecting money for the appeal. Most of the time people will turn their back but theres been a real drive here for money.

I'm not sure how this works, but the total collected is also supplemented by the Government as they give your tax back on top of that. Every little bit helps!

Oh, large companies over here have been giving contributions of goods too. JCB have sent �1m worth of heavy lifting equipment and supermarket chains have been donating foodstuffs etc.